NFL Free Agency fReNZy!!!
thehallmark
Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Anyone else enjoying the heck out of this?!
My teams doing well so far, despite being cap-strapped. Bears got Martellus Bennett instead of Jared Cook, which is a discount and both have near the same upside plus Bennett can block. But even better...
Ravens didn't resign Danell Ellerbe!!!! Love this one. Ellerbe is one of the more overrated LBs to play beside Ray, and that's quite a long list. Locking up money in him would have been a mistake. Ozzie Newsome is so good at this it hurts.
What about your teams? Who's on your wishlist?
My teams doing well so far, despite being cap-strapped. Bears got Martellus Bennett instead of Jared Cook, which is a discount and both have near the same upside plus Bennett can block. But even better...
Ravens didn't resign Danell Ellerbe!!!! Love this one. Ellerbe is one of the more overrated LBs to play beside Ray, and that's quite a long list. Locking up money in him would have been a mistake. Ozzie Newsome is so good at this it hurts.
What about your teams? Who's on your wishlist?
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Hell we never won a Super Bowl with Wes in town so I guess its the Pats thinking they will be better without him I dont know, all I can say is Im getting more and more disgusted with how the Patriots handle their personel.
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
<< <i>You got the guy that replaced him at Tech...Danny Amendola. >>
I figured they had that in mind going forward, Im OK with it as he is similar to Welker in style but nowhere near as tough. Amendola CANNOT play more than a few games without getting hurt, F'it why not he can be the Patriots version of Jacoby Ellsbury I guess.
Im looking at Goldson get signed by the Bucs and in my opinion he would have been a #1 target if I was in charge, and also Nnamdi Asomugha should be considered.
Still time I guess but Im looking to be dissapointed.
I'm OK with the Amendola/Welker swap. One thing to consider is that Brady does not lead his receivers into big hits very often, so hopefully Amendola can play in the 14-16 game range per year. Sure Welker got lit up more than a few times in his career, but in general, he's catching the ball away from the defense. Manning LOVES to fit the ball into tight windows, we'll see if Welker can make it though a full season.
The only downside of Welker leaving is that it makes that Broncos offense really scary now. If they weren't the favorite in the AFC already, they certainly are now.
<< <i>Nnamdi Asomugha is overrated, and refuses to tackle. I hope they don't sign him.
I'm OK with the Amendola/Welker swap. One thing to consider is that Brady does not lead his receivers into big hits very often, so hopefully Amendola can play in the 14-16 game range per year. Sure Welker got lit up more than a few times in his career, but in general, he's catching the ball away from the defense. Manning LOVES to fit the ball into tight windows, we'll see if Welker can make it though a full season.
The only downside of Welker leaving is that it makes that Broncos offense really scary now. If they weren't the favorite in the AFC already, they certainly are now. >>
LOL please name one Cornerback that does tackle! I want a freaking cover guy anyways, if we resign Talib we will be looking ok, considering there is not many other options at this point especially if Denard goes to Jail.
Bottom line Amendola will likely be spending time in the trainers room and much more than Welker.
<< <i>First off, I agree with everything perkdog just said. Furthermore, I don't understand what in the hell the Patriots were thinking in letting an OVERWHELMINGLY PROVEN guy like Welker go. He's 31, not really old for a receiver, and to sign him for a couple of years would be nothing. Not to mention he is buddies with Brady and they already have great on field chemistry. The guy has averaged 110+ receptions for the past 6 years, has gotten countless key first downs, and they let him go over a pittance IMO. Instead, they want to think that they're neomg clever and sign the "younger" guy thinking they are outsmarting everyone. When if fact, it's highly likely that Amendola, at his best, will still not be quite what Welker was and still would be. That's IF, Amendola:
1) can stay healthy
2) improve his on field abilities
3) fit into a new team
4) learn to play in a VERY cold open stadium
5) mesh with Brady
and on and on. That's a whole lot to bank on in hopes that you might be getter a poor man's version of the guy you just let go, who was arguably cheaper by the way. I might understand if Welker were demanding a 3/$30 type of contract or something, but anything close to what the Broncos paid him, if even a bit more, I think it was a NO BRAINER to sign him but whatever. >>
This sucks. I am not happy at all about this -- they could have signed him cheap by matching the Denver contract. While they were underpaying Welker, the Hoodie genius wasted cash on Ochocinco, Haynesworth, and a crappy secondary.
I am starting the really dislike Belechick now -- he's been a total dick toward Welker -- treating him like a child after the "foot" interview and getting mad at him for not signing a "team friendly" contract. And he did a horrible coaching job against the Ravens. I never thought I would say this, but maybe it is near time for him to go -- let Josh take over after one more year of Mr. Hoodie.
It's a coincidence that most of the teams making all these splashy free agent signings are terrible teams and have been terrible for a long time. Miami? Kansas City? These teams have been in the dregs for years, and these numerous signings are just more of the same.
The niners got Boldin for next to nothing, and represents a monumental step forward for the team. Seattle did the same, and it's great to see west coast football becoming so relevant again.
As far as Welker and Amendola is concerned anyone that cant understand how unessesary this was is out of their mind.
Simple recipe going into this offseason if they would get their head out of their a$$.... Sign Welker, throw stupid money at Goldson for a one year deal to get him, sign Talib and try and lure Greg Jennings into a Pats uniform.
I question the mentality of it all when I see what happens to guys that play too many years.
I remember talking to Patriots 1st quartwerback Butch Songin many years ago after he retired and he was hurting at that time.
I also sat with the Patriots fullback , I believe his name was Sam Cunningham, just before he died and he was a cripple.
Most don't come away feeling very good.
The money is not worth it in my opinion.
<< <i>It's all about the money, these guys don't have very many years to make it.
I question the mentality of it all when I see what happens to guys that play too many years.
I remember talking to Patriots 1st quartwerback Butch Songin many years ago after he retired and he was hurting at that time.
I also sat with the Patriots fullback , I believe his name was Sam Cunningham, just before he died and he was a cripple.
Most don't come away feeling very good.
The money is not worth it in my opinion. >>
Let me be 100% clear here. I am on Welkers side with this 100% I am glad he said FU to New England, they have been playing games with him for a few years now and enough was enough so Welker did what was best for him and I dont blame him.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
The Patriots don't have that great a record in proving when to let players go. If it seems like that, it's only because they've had arguably the best QB of the era to make sure that the team stay's in contention. Brady and Manning, and perhaps Rodgers, and to a lesser extent Warner, are the only QBs that have proven to be able to "carry" a franchise in the past 10-15 years. Amendola hasn't proven squat in the pros nor in college. He doesn't even have an average of 9 yards per reception. 9 yards isn't necessarily good for a tight end and this is who you want as a wide receiver??? Granted playing with Brady may help him but Welker teamed up with Brady while Brady was still in his late 20s. He's only getting older at 36 so why not leave well enough alone. This definitely should be filed under, "If it ain't broke, don' fix it." >>
I don't claim to be any expert when it comes to the Patriots, but what veterans have they cut loose that went on to great production elsewhere?
<< <i>Even if I'm flat out wrong, what is the possible upside to Amendola? That he might just be a sliver better than Welker. That's assuming he totally maximizes a supposed potential that hasn't remotely been proven, and he stays healthy and all the stars are aligned. You're not going to get a Randy Moss in his prime reclamation project. This is just one of the worst risk/reward decisions I can recall by a team in recent NFL history. >>
Amendola is (a) younger and (b) cheaper than Welker. Through in Welker's 'dropsies' the last couple of years and you have the Patriots ready to move on. As far as potential, let's remember that Wes Welker couldn't even get on the field for the Dolphins. The Dolphins. Let that sink in. Marty Booker and Chris Chambers were deemed more valuable and more important than Welker, and he was let go.
Time and again the Patriots have proven their system works. To those suggesting they haven't won anything in a while, they are a mere two plays away from 2 more super bowl wins. I'll err on the side of the professionals here. It's not like this is the Bills. Or Jaguars. Or any of a litany of other totally inept teams who have a long history of terrible decisions.
As far as the drops, I never once suggested that I knew the reason, I was simply suggesting reasons why. Amendola has had a very similar career path to Welker, so why not cut the older player for a cheaper and younger version?
As far as history...I can't recall a single valuable player the Patriots have released who's gone on to have great years after they left. I was simply saying that the Patriots' history of winning since 2000 is virtually unmatched, and given their impressive and long-running track record, I'm going to side with their idea of swapping Welker for Amendola.
You clearly don't know what you talking about. Lawyer Milloy, Willie McGinest, David Givens, Randy Moss, Adam Vinatieri, to name 5. There are probably at least 2 or 3 other prominent guys that I am forgetting. You may as well throw in Drew Bledsoe, too, because he was tossed aside when he was healthy enough to return, even though Brady was merely a game manager in that first Super Bowl year. Fact is, Belichick has NEVER been wrong about when to let players go. Also, Welker turns 32 in 2 months, FYI.
This whole "Amendola can't stay healthy" thing is a load of crap. People conveniently forget that Welker ripped up his ACL in Week 17, therefore his GP numbers look better than Amendola's, only because Amendola was unlucky enough to suffer a dislocated elbow in Week 1. You don't choose when you suffer a season-ending injury, it just happens. Flip-flop those and Welker would have missed more games than DA these last 4 years.
Will Welker have 100+ catches and 1000+ yards in Denver this season? I'm almost counting on it. And if Amendola "only" catches 90 balls for 900+ yards, people like baseball will claim victory in this argument, which is ludicrous. Brady is a Patriot for 5 more years. The Amendola/Welker decision was less about these next 2 years, and more about years 3-5. The Patriots CERTAINLY were not resigning Welker at 34. If a slot reciever is important to your offense (and it seems like the Patriots feel like it is), I'd rather have the #2 slot reciever in the game right now (please don't throw Cruz at me - he may line up in the slot, but he's not running the same routes Welker and Amendola are), knowing in Year 3, he will likely be the #1 slot guy in the league. You might even get lucky enough to have him surpass Welker this year.
Look, I love Welker, and he did A LOT for the Patriots, but they didn't win a Super Bowl with him (and I'd argue, lost a Super Bowl because of his drop). People need to take the fan-boy hat off, and start looking at moves like this objectively. They also need to stop projecting past years stats into the future, especially when dealing with players in the their 30's, when it's natural for them to start declining. I used to think Boston (and New England) sports fans were some of the most educated in the country, but with every passing day, I question that concept more and more.
And Perk - to answer your question - plenty of corners tackle, or at least try to. Asamough literally will slow down or purposefully take bad angles so he won't have to tackle (ESPN once showed a 7-8 play montage of such plays). He's an embarrassment.
Why does college matter when discussing NFL players? Tim Tebow had a MUCH more successful college career than Tom Brady.
Oops.
<< <i>Even if I'm flat out wrong, what is the possible upside to Amendola? That he might just be a sliver better than Welker. That's assuming he totally maximizes a supposed potential that hasn't remotely been proven, and he stays healthy and all the stars are aligned. You're not going to get a Randy Moss in his prime reclamation project. This is just one of the worst risk/reward decisions I can recall by a team in recent NFL history. >>
Five years compared to two years. That's a pretty huge difference
Two things I know about Belichek is that he is a lot smarter than I am and he is looking to 2016 even in 2013
<< <i> Even if they're right, it basically boils down to an unnecessary gamble IMO >>
Amendola could turn out to be the next Adalius Thomas or he could turn out to be the next Wes Welker. If the Patriots truly believe it's the latter, it would have been too much of a gamble to pass him over in favor an older and more expensive option who would need to be replaced much sooner. (If it's the latter hopefully the TEs and draft can make up for it)
The back end of Amendola's contract pays him nearly exactly what Welker will make for his two years with Denver -- when the league will almost certainly have a higher cap
<< <i> Unless you are suggesting that he drops WAY more than he should, which I love for you to prove. >>
He led the league in drops last year and had a very high drop rate: http://www.profootballfocus.com/
Because Welker is the only guy that has played in the current "system" run by Josh McDaniels, that's why. And for the last time, Welker will be 32 in two months. Amendola turns 28 mid-way through next season. One last note on the injury thing - Welker tore his knee in Week 17, which meant he had to endure a full season of punishment, and then rehab a major knee injury. Amendola at least saved himself a year's worth of bumps and bruises by being injured Week 1. To me, that's a plus in Amendola's column.
The guys I listed were either VERY controversial releases at the time with the fan base (Milloy, McGinest, and Vinatieri), or players coming off very productive seasons, who did squat elsewhere. I'll add Deion Branch to that list, too. My point was that Belichick's record in releasing guys while they still seemingly have productive years left is VERY good. The one regret he might have is Asante Samuel, but even then, the money Samuel wanted was so astronomical that Belichick had no choice but to let him leave.
<<<I’m not here to declare “victory” down the road, which is a ridiculous statement.>>> I didn't mean to single you out, I meant the "pro-Welker" crowd in general.
<<<The history of the NFL is full of guys who played well into their mid 30s as receivers.>>> True, but ALL of them were more athletic and had more speed than Welker and NONE of them were slot receivers working inside getting crushed by linebackers and safeties. They were guys on the outside mostly getting pushed out of bounds or being tackled by cornerbacks.
Joe
I am also curious about Castle. Wasn't he a pro bowler a couple of years ago? What happened?
Vikings need to improve the defense. No middle linebacker and we need another good defensive lineman. Jarrod Allen won't be around forever as well as Kevin Williams.
I also didn't like the way Antoine Winfield was let go, he is still a great player. Hopefully they can sign him for less money. Vikes should have found a way to keep him, he has been a wonderful player for them.
Joe
Couple things here Wes Welker was GREAT in our system and Im not sure how any Patriot fan can just say that he can so easily be replaced. The hard facts are that Welker was a ball magnet for Brady to the tune of hundreds of catches and fitting in the system and with a phenominal relationship with Brady. Amendola has upside without question but the guy has not played a full season and there is no garuntee that he will just fit like a glove into the Patriots system and be Bradys safety blanket right off the bat. The Patriots are taking a big gamble here and with the money we are talking about its not worth it. Sure if we were rebuilding MAYBE a great idea but Brady is in place NOW and we got a solid chance for another Supewr Bowl run and Welker was always a big part of our success so if its not broke dont fix it!
Im well aware that Welker arguably cost us the 2012 Super Bowl with that drop ( Again I say it was a bad throw ) and this past AFC Championship game he had a crucial drop but to look at him as expendable is just ignorant.
I hope Im wrong, I hope Amendola comes right in and has a great season to the tune of 100 catches for 1200 yards and 10 tds! I guess we will have top put this debate on ice till we see what Amendola does but I would be way more comfortable knowing that Welker was in a Pats uni.
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Ralph
However...
He was not drafted, nor was Amendola, making his college career vs. Amendola totally irrelevant. But Amendola's senior year receiving numbers were markedly better than Welker's. I said it before, I'll say it again, Wes Welker was seen as so replaceable the Dolphins of all people dealt him. Finally, as was noted here, he only became WES WELKER upon arriving in New England and teaming up with one of the all-time great QBs in Tom Brady.
Amendola will be a fine replacement. He's much younger, and I'm sorry, but 34 year old receivers don't have a long track record of great success in the NFL.