<< <i>Neither coin shows evidence of whizzing (i.e. use of a Dremel type tool with a wire brush attachment). >>
The above response concerns me more than the original thread? Please explain SB. thanks >>
If they were whizzed, I would expect to see two telltale signs. First there would be round swirls in the fields, and second there would be shelves around the devices. I don't see either. Instead, I see coins which IMO may have been dipped or have had their original patina removed. >>
Steve, with all due respect, I think you need to re-educate yourself with whizzed coins.
Fields have more of a short linear 'gouge' mark than swirls.
All I can add is the FE cent in this post should be the 'poster coin' of a typical whizzed coin.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
<< <i>Look at this coin, see how Liberty has a double chin: >>
If I only saw this coins' picture and nothing else (meaning the info on the slab), my first thoughts would definitely not be 'whizzed' (perhaps a problem coin, but not whizzed), unlike the previous two examples.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
The surfaces of a whizzed coin can vary a lot, depending on how, and how well, it was done. I don't think you can generalize about the presence and nature of telltale lines.
Often there are signs of metal pushed to the edge of devices and the shelf-effect Steve mentions.
But the one true measure is the disturbed luster. Cartwheel is replaced by a uniform sheen that reflects light with an eerie, diffused look. It is most easily noticed in hand. But sometimes images can give it away.
The examples posted in this thread look whizzed to me, especially the FE.
The below IHC doesn't look obviously whizzed but most everyone would see that it is after holding it in hand for a few seconds. Lance.
The below IHC doesn't look obviously whizzed but most everyone would see that it is after holding it in hand for a few seconds.
Lance, that example only confuses people. I see no wire-brushed surfaces. I know you say its hard to see, but I think it is not a whizzed coin. Cleaned maybe, but not whizzed.
I would agree, the 1870 cent is not a good example of a whizzed coin, nor (from the photo) is the double eagle. The double chin effect mentioned is really more the reflection of light from a poor scan/photo.
The flying eagle cent and Edwardian silver piece are premier examples of whizzed pieces. It's likely instructive to have those pics placed side-by-side with similarly sized pics of "good" coins with natural AU-Unc luster, to show the telltale differences (as much as can be done with just images.)
<< <i>The below IHC doesn't look obviously whizzed but most everyone would see that it is after holding it in hand for a few seconds.
Lance, that example only confuses people. I see no wire-brushed surfaces. I know you say its hard to see, but I think it is not a whizzed coin. Cleaned maybe, but not whizzed. >>
I posted it for that reason. It is a terrible example.
The IHC is in an old ANACS holder with a whizzed label. If you saw the coin in hand you wouldn't have any question about it. Complete absence of cartwheel. Shimmers like a polished coin. Lance.
The difference between whizzing and cleaning is huge. Whizzing moves the surface to simulate a much higher grade. It is done to deceive - always. Selling one is like selling a counterfeit. A whizzed coin should not be on the market, or it should be described and heavily discounted off of its detail grade. For example a XF Flying Eagle cent whizzed to look BU should be worth, say $20. The trouble is, that someone down the road will buy it to try and deceive someone else.
Even if you can't see the whizz patterns on the coins, the absense of any cartwheel effect to the luster is one of the dead giveaways. Ruined these pieces that would otherwise be acceptable in its original skin.
The first two examples are typical or classic examples of whizzing.
The other two (1870 1c and gold piece) eventhough they do show evidence of whizzing under close scrutiny, are not your typical choice of whizzed coins to show for example.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
Seeing that Whizzo Flying Eagle, I bet Rick takes that personal. It's like seeing one my daughters get hurt on the playground by a bully, some people just don't understand the harm they inflict when they do something like this.
If this is the listing I think it is, the seller is auction off a hoard from an estate, & 90% are keys in his/her claimed condition. Sadly, most of them look whizzed...surprisingly, it doesn't seem to be hurting their hammer prices.
Holy crap. That's a lotta whizzing. Wonder what his return rate is... even at 20% he's gotta be making a KILLING. Pisses me off. >>
I bought 4 SL Half Dimes from him about 2 months ago, I sent them all back. Pics were gamble quality, seriously overgraded and cleaned. He was slow to refund my$ but i did get it eventually. Stay away, far away.
I think this coin that I sold recently is the poster child of whizzed coins.
I decided to have the coin graded, but if I had sold it raw, I certainly would have disclosed the fact that it was whizzed in my listing. The FE cent in the OP leaves me feeling sorry for the buyer.
<< <i>The difference between whizzing and cleaning is huge. Whizzing moves the surface to simulate a much higher grade. It is done to deceive - always. Selling one is like selling a counterfeit. A whizzed coin should not be on the market, or it should be described and heavily discounted off of its detail grade. For example a XF Flying Eagle cent whizzed to look BU should be worth, say $20. The trouble is, that someone down the road will buy it to try and deceive someone else. >>
While i fully agree with what you said, most people that spend 100's of dollars on whizzed/doctored coin do not feel the need to toss said coin into the trash can. If they did and the sanitation worker found the coin it would come back on the market.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>I think this coin that I sold recently is the poster child of whizzed coins. I decided to have the coin graded, but if I had sold it raw, I certainly would have disclosed the fact that it was whizzed in my listing. The FE cent in the OP leaves me feeling sorry for the buyer. >>
Definitely the 'poster boy' for a whizzed coin.
What I find is a 'sure-tell' of a whizzed coin is the rippling effect in the fields at 9:00 and 2:00 especially.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
I'd "net grade" an AU-details, whizzed coin that looks like that maybe very fine or so, Although it sounds like some net it to zero and say worthless instead of "worth less"
Too bad, because the AU, problem-free coin it probably Used to be was worth a lot more.
There is also "eraser whizzing", using two gradually less abrasive erasers followed by a third to smooth and blend the luster changes. I have seen this most "effective" in Walkers where the uneven bursting luster pattern is easily discernible and usually the same. Then some added tone and you can have a problem for the uninitiated. Done to an AU coin where...wear would be present anyway (this does not remove anywhere near as much metal as the super fine brush) followed by some new circ marks to cover the tracks, and then some brown/darker tone and a touch of gunk in the right spots and one tiny one that "no doctor would do"...can fool the newer folks.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Neither coin shows evidence of whizzing (i.e. use of a Dremel type tool with a wire brush attachment). >>
The above response concerns me more than the original thread?
Please explain SB. thanks >>
If they were whizzed, I would expect to see two telltale signs. First there would be round swirls in the fields, and second there would be shelves around the devices. I don't see either. Instead, I see coins which IMO may have been dipped or have had their original patina removed. >>
Steve, with all due respect, I think you need to re-educate yourself with whizzed coins.
Fields have more of a short linear 'gouge' mark than swirls.
All I can add is the FE cent in this post should be the 'poster coin' of a typical whizzed coin.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>Look at this coin, see how Liberty has a double chin:
If I only saw this coins' picture and nothing else (meaning the info on the slab), my first thoughts would definitely not be 'whizzed' (perhaps a problem coin, but not whizzed), unlike the previous two examples.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Often there are signs of metal pushed to the edge of devices and the shelf-effect Steve mentions.
But the one true measure is the disturbed luster. Cartwheel is replaced by a uniform sheen that reflects light with an eerie, diffused look. It is most easily noticed in hand. But sometimes images can give it away.
The examples posted in this thread look whizzed to me, especially the FE.
The below IHC doesn't look obviously whizzed but most everyone would see that it is after holding it in hand for a few seconds.
Lance.
I could never buy a coin for that kind of money off eBay unless it TPGed by a accepted company.
Lance, that example only confuses people. I see no wire-brushed surfaces. I know you say its hard to see, but I think it is not a whizzed coin. Cleaned maybe, but not whizzed.
The flying eagle cent and Edwardian silver piece are premier examples of whizzed pieces. It's likely instructive to have those pics placed side-by-side with similarly sized pics of "good" coins with natural AU-Unc luster, to show the telltale differences (as much as can be done with just images.)
<< <i>The below IHC doesn't look obviously whizzed but most everyone would see that it is after holding it in hand for a few seconds.
Lance, that example only confuses people. I see no wire-brushed surfaces. I know you say its hard to see, but I think it is not a whizzed coin. Cleaned maybe, but not whizzed. >>
I posted it for that reason. It is a terrible example.
The IHC is in an old ANACS holder with a whizzed label. If you saw the coin in hand you wouldn't have any question about it. Complete absence of cartwheel. Shimmers like a polished coin.
Lance.
More like an example of ANACS getting it wrong.
Maybe I'll collect it from the vault and send it to you, Rick. See what you think?
Lance.
The first two examples are typical or classic examples of whizzing.
The other two (1870 1c and gold piece) eventhough they do show evidence of whizzing under close scrutiny, are not your typical choice of whizzed coins to show for example.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>.
for your convenience
. >>
Gack! >>
Holy crap. That's a lotta whizzing. Wonder what his return rate is... even at 20% he's gotta be making a KILLING. Pisses me off. >>
I bought 4 SL Half Dimes from him about 2 months ago, I sent them all back. Pics were gamble quality, seriously overgraded and cleaned. He was slow to refund my$ but i did get it eventually. Stay away, far away.
I decided to have the coin graded, but if I had sold it raw, I certainly would have disclosed the fact that it was whizzed in my listing. The FE cent in the OP leaves me feeling sorry for the buyer.
<< <i>The difference between whizzing and cleaning is huge. Whizzing moves the surface to simulate a much higher grade. It is done to deceive - always. Selling one is like selling a counterfeit. A whizzed coin should not be on the market, or it should be described and heavily discounted off of its detail grade. For example a XF Flying Eagle cent whizzed to look BU should be worth, say $20. The trouble is, that someone down the road will buy it to try and deceive someone else. >>
While i fully agree with what you said, most people that spend 100's of dollars on whizzed/doctored coin do not feel the need to toss said coin into the trash can. If they did and the sanitation worker found the coin it would come back on the market.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>.
for your convenience
. >>
The 1879 PCGS MS63 Indian Princess $3 looks puttied. I'd hate to have that slab two years from now.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
<< <i>I think this coin that I sold recently is the poster child of whizzed coins.
I decided to have the coin graded, but if I had sold it raw, I certainly would have disclosed the fact that it was whizzed in my listing. The FE cent in the OP leaves me feeling sorry for the buyer. >>
Definitely the 'poster boy' for a whizzed coin.
What I find is a 'sure-tell' of a whizzed coin is the rippling effect in the fields at 9:00 and 2:00 especially.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Too bad, because the AU, problem-free coin it probably Used to be was worth a lot more.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
side by side
with the OPs coin
to demonstrate the difference
There is also "eraser whizzing", using two gradually less abrasive erasers followed by a third to smooth and blend the luster changes. I have seen this most "effective" in Walkers where the uneven bursting luster pattern is easily discernible and usually the same. Then some added tone and you can have a problem for the uninitiated.
Done to an AU coin where...wear would be present anyway (this does not remove anywhere near as much metal as the super fine brush) followed by some new circ marks to cover the tracks, and then some brown/darker tone and a touch of gunk in the right spots and one tiny one that "no doctor would do"...can fool the newer folks.
Just my .02.
Best,
Eric