How do you tell business strikes from SMS coins?

DHeath

I have a few raw Kennedies I bought in a lot, and some of the 65 coins are very nice. They aren't prooflike like my SMS cameos, but they do look too nice to be business strikes. Does anyone know a reliable way to tell. I know some of the SMS coins have been labeled incorrectly.

itsnotjustme

Did you see my thread on PCGS failing to label one of my SMS coins SMS? I pulled it from an original set myself. I don't know a definitive way to tell them apart.

cladking

You could learn all the dies which struck the SMS's, but otherwise I doubt there is a definitive way. This normally isn't a problem since quality difference is so obvious, but some SMS aren't that nice and some business strikes are superb.

wondercoin

I recently had a MS67 quarter that went in for grading 4x and graded SMS 2x and regular issue 2x. Does that answer your question? Wondercoin.

supercoin

4X?? Better stop now, it'll be AU before long.

Which begs the question... why does PCGS differentiate them? And why did Brian send his back?

Actually I thought I recall someone had a more positive diagnostic for at least one of the denominations or dates, posted here a while back. I didn't pay much attention at the time, maybe I'm not remembering it right.

itsnotjustme

Tad,
Cause I'm such an honest guy! (Now do you think I could send it back again and get the SMS taken back off and the MS68 left on??)

Bcsican

Theres an easy way to tell. One is to see if any of the coins surfaces has any cameo effect. If the coin seems to be free of all cameo effects, (details of all SMS) coins look at the coin in bright sunlight and hold the shadow surface against the light source so its not showing on your facing side. If its a SMS you can see some part of the cameo effect even when it shows none.

No MS coin ever minted shows any effect of a cameo under any effects no matter what its source of light or means. Most of the SMS coins have a mirror finish of some sorts that also detect a SMS coin. If the coin has lost all of the frost look in the fields as many SMS have done, coins that dont have the MS look that MS coins have and are not mirrored most likely are not SMS coins. The easiest way to tell look at the coin in the indirect sunlight.

And to know your MS coins look....

braddick

I have a 1965 Kennedy now in a PCGS holder that I'm SURE is a regular issue and NOT an SMS although the label states, SMS. One day I won't be so lazy and I'll send it back to get fixed.

segoja

Another way to tell is the roll the rim of the coin around in your fingertips from the edge. The SMS coins typically have a sharper edge to them than the MS coins.

DHeath

Thanks All!

braddick

I also heard if you cut the coin in half the SMS will have less of an inner copper core than the regular issue. I don't recommend this process, but it is foolproof.

supercoin

Everybody is using terms like "generally" and "most likely" and "tend to". Obviously in a full cameo SMS piece it's not much of an issue (obvioulsy an SMS), or a terrible looking circulation strike (which isn't worth anything no matter what it is).

But consider the case of a high-end circulation strike, which apparently can not be reliably distinguished from a brilliant SMS coin.

Many of those circulation strikes of those years can be tough in high grade. I found some nicer 1965(?) nickels once and sent them in, and they were labelled SMS, presumably just because they "looked too nice" to be circulation strikes.

If they can't tell the difference, and if nobody can, then why differentiate? Sure save us all a lot of time grubbing through rolls to find gem+ 1965-67 coins.

supercoin

Another point: Recent mint-set coins are struck at higher than normal pressure. 1999 P&D SBAs, for example "tend to" have sharper strikes and more reflective surfaces (sometimes highly reflective) than coins issued for general circulation. But no differentiation is made there.

DHeath

er, Mr.Braddick, I took your advice and cut them in half but they both look about the same. How do I put them back for submission?

braddick

"How do I put them back for submission?" -Send them to PCI.

Bear

Don - I would recommend superglue to rejoin your coin. Of course my experiments in this field have shown that you will generally glue your coin to your fingers. If you want to slab your glued coin you will have to drive it in to PCGSin person or send your coin and fingers to NGC to be curated. Regards Bear.

DHeath

ROFLMAO Bear.

mnmcoin

At first I thought supercoins comment to be inacurate, but the more I think about it, the more I can't help but conclude he is right. If everyone has such a hard time differentiating them, then why does it matter. Sure they are two different coins, but really, if no one call tell the difference with any accuracy and at opportune times they look identical then really there should be no distinction.

Really, I am serious, think about it before you pass me off as stupid, just like my momma did

No but for real, the only purpose would be to brag and say, hey I got this super high grade non sms coin, but if you can't tell for sure and you can get an sms PCGS MS67 anything for $20 vs non sms for double or higher especially when it comes to MS68, and they look so similar then why the diff...dang it, I want to know why, just tell me...huh, huh!

mo <><

DMWJR

I have been told by a "pop maker" that he has pulled several high grade coins from that period out of original rolls and they have come back SMS. I don't think PCGS can really tell the difference.

Datentype

In response to BSICAN's comment: Try a nice roll of 1972-d Roosey's. They come cameo sometimes and look exactly like an sms.


"Theres an easy way to tell. One is to see if any of the coins surfaces has any cameo effect. If the coin seems to be free of all cameo effects, (details of all SMS) coins look at the coin in bright sunlight and hold the shadow surface against the light source so its not showing on your facing side. If its a SMS you can see some part of the cameo effect even when it shows none.

No MS coin ever minted shows any effect of a cameo under any effects no matter what its source of light or means. Most of the SMS coins have a mirror finish of some sorts that also detect a SMS coin. If the coin has lost all of the frost look in the fields as many SMS have done, coins that dont have the MS look that MS coins have and are not mirrored most likely are not SMS coins. The easiest way to tell look at the coin in the indirect sunlight"

inneedof70s

does that make it an MS268 or just an MS67x4? This grading stuff just confusses me!