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Help with my "cleaned" tuition fees
Coinsponge
Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
Ok, I just got some grades back on a few coins I sent in. 3 out of 6 got dinged for cleaning. This deficit in my skills is costing me too much tuition fees and I am not sure I am getting much better. Can anyone out there who has gotten good at spotting a cleaning problem coin share one thing they look for that indicates cleaning other than the obvious shiny as a hub cap look. There must be something I have missed along the way. Thanks for any thoughts.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
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“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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<< <i>Have you considered going to a PCGS dealer that can help you screen out the cleaned coins prior to submitting? Sounds like this would save you time and money. >>
Good suggestion but they are quite a few miles away.
Usually an unnatural surface can indicate a cleaning. One has to look at lots of "good" coins to determine what a natural surface looks like to understand what unnatural surfaces looks like. Also, hairlining is a good indication of a cleaning, either in straight lines or circular squiggly lines. A light/bright untoned coin below VF/XF can be an indication of cleaning and would need futher inspection.
Just alot of things it could be.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
why
after all you did pay your tuition , so make it worthwhile
post photos
At that point, and looking back and forth you will start to see the differences.
<< <i>
<< <i>Buy slabbed coins. >>
You got to be kidding
Seriously you just can't depend on that statement any more, sorry but true
touché
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Coin Rarities Online
in being able to detect the more subtle problems you may be missing (like hairlines under tone, etc).
<< <i>
<< <i>Buy slabbed coins. >>
You got to be kidding
Seriously you just can't depend on that statement any more, sorry but true
You don't understand that if he wants slabs that don't say 92 them buy then that way. Very simply put the coins he is getting back may or may not of been cleaned.
Edit to add that I know a few people that even think dipping a coin is a form of cleaning.....
<< <i>buying slabbed coins would be an excellent start imo >>
Awe, That would be too easy.
<< <i>
<< <i>buying slabbed coins would be an excellent start imo >>
Awe, That would be too easy. >>
you are right
Came back AU details-Improperly cleaned.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Look at the coin in good light, with a loupe. Move the coin around to get a look at every extreme angle. Parallel hairlines are what you're trying (or hoping not!) to spot. Look hard.
The rest of the time it is an unnatural appearance. Old cleaning can be hard to see if the coin has toned over. But it will often have a glossy, unusual look.
There's so much to be said here, but it's all been said before. Fire up an old browser that works with the forum search feature. The results will keep you reading all day long.
Lance.
<< <i>Here is one I got busted on. It seemed to have good luster and some toning in places I would not expect on a cleaned coin.
Came back AU details-Improperly cleaned. >>
I like the look of this one and hate to see it wearing the scarlet letter "c".
<< <i>Ok, I just got some grades back on a few coins I sent in. 3 out of 6 got dinged for cleaning. This deficit in my skills is costing me too much in tuition fees and I am not sure I am getting much better. >>
It may not completely be your fault, and your skills may be just fine when identifying a cleaned/uncleaned coin.
*At this point in time several people have noticed their coins being returned altered, and subsequently being called 'cleaned', by at least one of the major TPG's without the submitters request for the TPG to alter their coins' surfaces. Always take high quality photos of the coins you plan to submit prior to submission.
<< <i>
<< <i>
*At this point in time several people have noticed their coins being returned altered, and subsequently being called 'cleaned', by at least one of the major TPG's without the submitters request for the TPG to alter their coins' surfaces. Always take high quality photos of the coins you plan to submit prior to submission. >>
This statement certainly needs some clarification, at least as far as I am concerned!
in being able to detect the more subtle problems you may be missing (like hairlines under tone, etc>>>
Most excellant suggestion,,,
Eschenbach or a Zeiss.... they let a ton more light in so you can see the surfaces much better.
Once I got my Zeiss I saw hairlines that weren't seen with the cheaper loops..
Also Look at the surfaces IN HAND.... if in a 2x2 holder or slip TAKE it out.... that plastic distorts what you see....
<< <i><<<Make sure you have a good quality magnifier, like an Eschenbach.....I was too cheap for years to spring for one of these, but they make a tremendous difference
in being able to detect the more subtle problems you may be missing (like hairlines under tone, etc>>>
Most excellant suggestion,,,
Eschenbach or a Zeiss.... they let a ton more light in so you can see the surfaces much better.
Once I got my Zeiss I saw hairlines that weren't seen with the cheaper loops..
Also Look at the surfaces IN HAND.... if in a 2x2 holder or slip TAKE it out.... that plastic distorts what you see.... >>
I am seeing some great suggestions. Maybe I can divert some future "tuition" money into a better magnifier and light. What power is best?
Take a good picture, maybe straight on, at a slight angle, etc. Use good lighting.
I have seen coins that were cleaned that I couldn't initially tell without the picture. The picture picked it up quite clearly.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Make sure you have a good quality magnifier, like an Eschenbach.....I was too cheap for years to spring for one of these, but they make a tremendous difference
in being able to detect the more subtle problems you may be missing (like hairlines under tone, etc). >>
I agree with this but also make sure you look at coins with your very good magnifer under different types of light - natural, halogen, etc. Sometimes different light sources or a strong light will show things otherwise missed.
Dewey
<< <i>Buy slabbed coins. >>
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
1. Keep one as Unc
2. Dip one several times.
3. Harshly clean the last one using a Brillo pad or some other abrasive.
Then look at the differences between the three. I think that would be an awesome lesson.
<< <i>What about buying three common Unc Morgan dollars then,
1. Keep one as Unc
2. Dip one several times.
3. Harshly clean the last one using a Brillo pad or some other abrasive.
Then look at the differences between the three. I think that would be an awesome lesson. >>
Why use Morgans? You could just as easily learn this lesson with a roll of common cents.
Here's what my mentor did for me the first time I bought some coins from him: He hands me this roll of 1960-P cents, then says, "now take these home and fuck them up. Try everything. Then bring them back and show me." I learned a lot; that's for sure.
Empty Nest Collection
Finalizers, IMO, simply take the "opinion" as gospel since it only benefits the grading company in the long run with a possible resubmission.
I personally, and many others for that matter, have had coins "opinionated" as cleaned which came back in MS slabs upon resubmission. It's only an opinion based upon experience which I would question when a grader cannot tell the difference between die abrasion scratches and hairlines.
Unless there are definite abrasive hairlines which indicate a harsh or even a light cleaning, there's just no way to tell with absolute sureity that a coin has been cleaned. I'm sure some will disagree with that statement but unfortunately its true.
The name is LEE!