Help Identifying an Ebay Bidder - To Complain or Not To Complain, That Is the Question
OcTrAdInG
Posts: 176 ✭✭
The other night I got sniped on two cards by the following bidder on Ebay:
Bidder: t***o( 82884)
As some of you know already, I dedicate most of my collecting efforts to 1952 Bowman baseball cards, and the cards in question were somewhat desirable, low-pop cards from the set (Surkont and Pesky, but only PSA 8's). To the best of my knowledge, I've never run into this bidder previously, and the amount of feedback is pretty insane. I'm waiting for feedback to post so that I can do my own check on the legitimacy of the sale, but I was just wondering if anyone is familiar with the ID in the meantime. It seems you guys do a pretty good job identifying shills and whatnot, and this information would be helpful to me going forward. I wish the buyer the best, but I don't quite get the interest in the cards.
Thanks.
Bidder: t***o( 82884)
As some of you know already, I dedicate most of my collecting efforts to 1952 Bowman baseball cards, and the cards in question were somewhat desirable, low-pop cards from the set (Surkont and Pesky, but only PSA 8's). To the best of my knowledge, I've never run into this bidder previously, and the amount of feedback is pretty insane. I'm waiting for feedback to post so that I can do my own check on the legitimacy of the sale, but I was just wondering if anyone is familiar with the ID in the meantime. It seems you guys do a pretty good job identifying shills and whatnot, and this information would be helpful to me going forward. I wish the buyer the best, but I don't quite get the interest in the cards.
Thanks.
0
Comments
<< <i>Bidder: t***o( 82884) >>
probstein123
<< <i>
<< <i>Bidder: t***o( 82884) >>
probstein123 >>
I have run into the bidder before, but not as a bidder. wtf. Just shoot me now.
It might just be time for me to take another long break from the hobby.
If you are that obsessed about it contact the seller of the card, he should know..
You lost the card, next bid higher if yo want it that bad.
Dave
<< <i>Their is no real way to identify who it is. Their are over a million ebay users. it could be anyone. >>
Incorrect. It was probstein123 that won the 1952 Bowman Pesky & Surkont PSA 8's mentioned above.
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=probstein123&completed=1&all=1&rows=200&sort=3&_rdc=1
<< <i>
<< <i>Their is no real way to identify who it is. Their are over a million ebay users. it could be anyone. >>
Incorrect. It was probstein123 that won the 1952 Bowman Pesky & Surkont PSA 8's mentioned above.
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=probstein123&completed=1&all=1&rows=200&sort=3&_rdc=1 >>
Congrads to Rick. It was a great pickup.
If you do not win an auction please do not complain about it. Unless you are a baby and want everything your way. If you wanted it you would have placed a higher bid. I guess Rick thinks it is worth more than you do.
I've lost many auctions in the past, I do not complain about it.
Why is their a Probstein witch hunt going on?
This message board use to be great, it's turning in to a joke. Their is a good chance I'll be leaving soon, the high school drama is stupid. I wasn't involved in it when I was in school, it was stupid back then also.
When I made the original post, I had no idea it was Probstein. I have purchased from Rick in the past, and I will likely do so in the future. It still feels as if I got punched in the gut. Never, never, did I suspect it was the guy from whom I've been buying these cards. I can only hope the cards land in someone else's collection for a long time. Personally, I have zero interest in those cards at this point, especially at the inflated price.
There is no need to defend the man, first by saying you can't identify the bidder, then by criticizing me for trying to understand the market for the cards I collect. As I prepared the post last night, the feedback for the bidder changed, and not surprisingly, the adjusted feedback # matched Probstein. I am a strong buyer of these cards, and I am always comfortable with the prices I offer. In this case, the cards are obviously worth at least 2 times SMR, almost 3 times SMR (to Probstein).
Frankly, you didn't even need to respond to the post. Defending Probstein just adds fuel to the fire, as the post was never meant to add to the ongoing Probstein saga.
Yes, I still feel some kind of way about getting sniped by Probstein. I've dedicated a lot of time and money to this hobby yet again, only to find myself aggravated and discouraged by my recent experiences. This is really a new low for me.
i get outbid by enterprises greater than myself on an almost daily basis.
sometimes after a loss, i wish i could wheel kick my own cajones if i had any in the first place.
hang in there. make it fun and don't worry about the guys with the big numbers. they ain't going anywhere.
good luck.
I think I should take the hint, and just say it was fun while it lasted.
~WalterSobchak
FOR THE LAST TIME SMR PRICES = NOTHING IN THE REAL WORLD
James
aconte
and it's quite whirled.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
<< <i>Tremendous Willie. >>
<< <i>Thank you for the kind words. I'm just not in a position now where I feel comfortable shelling out multiples over SMR prices just to register/complete my set. When I got back into the hobby, I never thought I'd be going in this direction. I'm not going to fight retailers over prices that can never be high enough in their eyes.
I think I should take the hint, and just say it was fun while it lasted. >>
Completely ignore SMR prices and you will be much happier. I haven't looked at them in years since they have little meaning in a rising and volatile market.
<< <i>If you want to see who outbid you on an auction, you can go to the advanced tab on Ebay. Go to bidder and put your user ID in and check the box for completed auctions. If you placed a bid on an item and were outbid the auction will show up with the name of the bidder who won the auction. >>
Thank you very much. I was not aware of this option, and I've wasted quite some time in the past trying to make sure I've not been getting ripped off.
I do tend to agree with the comments about SMR, and how off the prices can be. Generally speaking though, I still use it as an initial reference point, with actual auction results and transactions being the driving force in my final bids. I do not like to see retailers/brokers paying outrageous prices for cards if there is no legitimate reason.
The real problem for me now is that I have sellers who are actually referencing my purchases when they set prices or I negotiate a deal. I'm sure I'm not the first person who has gone through this, but for the sake of the hobby, it really is a shame. I am not in the hobby for the money or investment potential. It is pretty funny to me to see sellers who are sitting on cards, basically waiting for me to purchase them. My bankroll is not unlimited, and in fact, I am once again very close to exiting the hobby because of artificial grading and prices.
<< <i>Yes, I still feel some kind of way about getting sniped by Probstein. I've dedicated a lot of time and money to this hobby yet again, only to find myself aggravated and discouraged by my recent experiences. This is really a new low for me. >>
<< <i>Thank you for the kind words. I'm just not in a position now where I feel comfortable shelling out multiples over SMR prices just to register/complete my set. When I got back into the hobby, I never thought I'd be going in this direction. I'm not going to fight retailers over prices that can never be high enough in their eyes.
I think I should take the hint, and just say it was fun while it lasted. >>
Wow, at first I thought Dave (Yankees001) was being too hard on you, but get a grip man.
Be patient. It's not a race. While 52 Bowman may have some low pops, they're not impossible to find. You'll get there -- just enjoy the ride!
<< <i>
Wow, at first I thought Dave (Yankees001) was being too hard on you, but get a grip man.
Be patient. It's not a race. While 52 Bowman may have some low pops, they're not impossible to find. You'll get there -- just enjoy the ride! >>
Is it really one less bidder??? That may just be wishful thinking. I will keep the theories to myself.
I'm not griping about losing the auction. I have lost before. It is the nature of the loss this time. Don't ask me why it bothered me enough last night to make the post in the first place. Just let this be a lesson that Probstein is actively selling AND buying cards on ebay. Evidently, he really is paying top-dollar. News to me. Sorry if I complained too much, or stepped on the untouchables' toes. wtf
No one has any rights to or claim on a card until they've reached an accepted price with its seller. People act like they should be given competition-free deals. People even get salty when other genuine collectors bid up cards they want. It's crazy: anyone can bid, it's their right. For whatever reason.
Also, SMR often is totally disconnected from market reality, so using it as anything more than a fly swatter or reading the articles will lead to confusion and frustration. This is easily avoidable.
It seems like the topic of shilling is everywhere these days. It seems every lost auction sends under bidders running to pore through the auction data in search of a shill. Fact: it can't be stopped. And as long as someone pays and completes a sale they're happy with, that's the most recent price. It was paid. If one wants a card, beat that winning bidder and get it. If one fails to do that, hey, it's possibly one less competing bid next time.
If a hobby gives people such a headache, bail. Then prices will just come down for those who are chill and don't complain, and had to hear the complaining. A deserved present, that would be.
<< <i>
If a hobby gives people such a headache, bail. Then prices will just come down for those who are chill and don't complain, and had to hear the complaining. A deserved present, that would be. >>
Merry Christmas.
The real problem for me now is that I have sellers who are actually referencing my purchases when they set prices or I negotiate a deal. I'm sure I'm not the first person who has gone through this, but for the sake of the hobby, it really is a shame. I am not in the hobby for the money or investment potential. It is pretty funny to me to see sellers who are sitting on cards, basically waiting for me to purchase them. My bankroll is not unlimited, and in fact, I am once again very close to exiting the hobby because of artificial grading and prices. >>
This happens when you're at the top of the game in any collecting field. I went through the same thing with Hot Wheels years ago. Eventually someone comes along who will pay more for an item than you will. I solved it by selling all my Hot Wheels because I didn't want to pay the money for the few remaining ones that I didn't have in flawless condition.
In hindsight, all I did was remove myself from a hobby that I really enjoyed and parted with a great collection.
Regarding past sales, I think it's only fair that if we use VCP and others' past paid prices as a resource, our own past paid prices are equally valid for others to use.
This message board has been a great, great help in my latest collecting endeavors, and at this point in time, I no longer feel the need to keep my registry locked and private, with escalating prices for my set of choice. Somehow, I don't feel for a second that the cards I own and was buying would command the prices I'm paying now. Just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. If I can be of assistance to anyone with interests similar to my own, please feel free to PM me.
Thank you, and happy collecting.
<< <i>There's really a great takeaway in what Maple posted: choose to focus on the positives and enjoyment. The perceived annoyances should never outweigh the fun, and a person can always choose what they let bother them.
Regarding past sales, I think it's only fair that if we use VCP and others' past paid prices as a resource, our own past paid prices are equally valid for others to use. >>
...and your points are equally valid.
<< <i>So this is what it's come to: every time someone loses an auction or fails to acquire a piece they desire, it's time to rail against shilling or vilify sellers like Rick or auction houses or rival bidders. People need to man up. You want something, buy it or win it. You don't like the market price for whatever reason, such as suspected shilling, simply pass on it.
No one has any rights to or claim on a card until they've reached an accepted price with its seller. People act like they should be given competition-free deals. People even get salty when other genuine collectors bid up cards they want. It's crazy: anyone can bid, it's their right. For whatever reason.
Also, SMR often is totally disconnected from market reality, so using it as anything more than a fly swatter or reading the articles will lead to confusion and frustration. This is easily avoidable.
It seems like the topic of shilling is everywhere these days. It seems every lost auction sends under bidders running to pore through the auction data in search of a shill. Fact: it can't be stopped. And as long as someone pays and completes a sale they're happy with, that's the most recent price. It was paid. If one wants a card, beat that winning bidder and get it. If one fails to do that, hey, it's possibly one less competing bid next time.
If a hobby gives people such a headache, bail. Then prices will just come down for those who are chill and don't complain, and had to hear the complaining. A deserved present, that would be. >>
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
1952 #45 Johnny Pesky PSA 8:
2/21/13 $192.83
6/13/10 $162.73
1/7/10 $195.00
1952 Bowman #12 Max Surkont PSA 8:
2/21/13 $159.50
7/26/11 $70.00
12/21/10 $18.27
10/17/10 $37.52
The final bid on the Pesky seems to be in the ballpark and a 3rd bidder was about $15 under the winning bid, while the Surkont appears to be a bit of an anomaly. Regardless, the frustration in losing an auction shouldn't necessarily be directed at the winning bidder or based upon some conspiracy. I've had more than my share of losses on items I've pushed well in excess of recent sales would indicate. I just bide my time and have won some of them when they've resurfaced later at far less than I had previously planned. No sense in getting my panties in a bundle worrying about how/who/why.
<< <i>So this is what it's come to: every time someone loses an auction or fails to acquire a piece they desire, it's time to rail against shilling or vilify sellers like Rick or auction houses or rival bidders. People need to man up. You want something, buy it or win it. You don't like the market price for whatever reason, such as suspected shilling, simply pass on it.
No one has any rights to or claim on a card until they've reached an accepted price with its seller. People act like they should be given competition-free deals. People even get salty when other genuine collectors bid up cards they want. It's crazy: anyone can bid, it's their right. For whatever reason.
Also, SMR often is totally disconnected from market reality, so using it as anything more than a fly swatter or reading the articles will lead to confusion and frustration. This is easily avoidable.
It seems like the topic of shilling is everywhere these days. It seems every lost auction sends under bidders running to pore through the auction data in search of a shill. Fact: it can't be stopped. And as long as someone pays and completes a sale they're happy with, that's the most recent price. It was paid. If one wants a card, beat that winning bidder and get it. If one fails to do that, hey, it's possibly one less competing bid next time.
If a hobby gives people such a headache, bail. Then prices will just come down for those who are chill and don't complain, and had to hear the complaining. A deserved present, that would be. >>
This is a fairly ridiculous conclusion to be derived from your arguments.
People have a forum to vent on if they wish. Your option is to not click on those threads.... or you can respond complaining about the complainers. That ok too. Ridiculous. But ok.
<< <i>Over the past few years, here's the "public" history of the sales prices recorded for the cards in question:
1952 #45 Johnny Pesky PSA 8:
2/21/13 $192.83
6/13/10 $162.73
1/7/10 $195.00
1952 Bowman #12 Max Surkont PSA 8:
2/21/13 $159.50
7/26/11 $70.00
12/21/10 $18.27
10/17/10 $37.52
The final bid on the Pesky seems to be in the ballpark and a 3rd bidder was about $15 under the winning bid, while the Surkont appears to be a bit of an anomaly. Regardless, the frustration in losing an auction shouldn't necessarily be directed at the winning bidder or based upon some conspiracy. I've had more than my share of losses on items I've pushed well in excess of recent sales would indicate. I just bide my time and have won some of them when they've resurfaced later at far less than I had previously planned. No sense in getting my panties in a bundle worrying about how/who/why. >>
I appreciate the interest and the detailed analysis for folks to see. However, I am not experiencing "frustration" after losing an auction. It is more about concern and my comfort level in the hobby right now. As was said already, the items are certainly not one of a kind, and I'm sure I'll have the opportunity to obtain them again, if I choose to do so (at an acceptable price). As strong as my bids may have been, I really look for 8.5's and 9's. My curiosity with knowing the winning bidder just got the best of me. IT WAS NOT ABOUT LOSING TWO COMMONS TO ANOTHER QUALIFIED BIDDER. I just don't want to be in a hobby where I am not comfortable with grading, prices, and whole bunch of bias or collusion. Up until the other night, I was quite fine knowing all too well that I'd be bidding frequently against those and the big banks at the top of the registry. But re-sellers now too??? At least, he got a deal on an ebay purchase prior to this incident - 72 Bic Atlantis Retractable Assorted Medium Ball Pens for $30.99. After being informed that the winning bidder was Probstein, I guess I could have changed the title to "HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN OUTBID BY PROBSTEIN?" It's unusual to me and a first for me at that.
In the midst of so many board comments, good and bad, about Probstein, I just thought it quite ironic that the buyer would be Probstein. It is not a personal vendetta, and I have never commented on shill bids or the like. Check the threads. I most certainly have complained about PSA grades before, but my posts (as a relatively new member) have been pretty limited to that and the state of things in the hobby. Yes, it's difficult to police and monitor auctions, but after a long hiatus from the hobby, my expectations were just too high. I am not happy with the state of things. Unlike a lot of the posts that are critical of people and circumstances, I enjoy hearing about real-world experiences and happenings. We are all entitled to our own opinions, and I have learned a great deal from the "complainers" on the board. So, THANK YOU. Personally, I have cold feet.
<< <i>If you want to see who outbid you on an auction, you can go to the advanced tab on Ebay. Go to bidder and put your user ID in and check the box for completed auctions. If you placed a bid on an item and were outbid the auction will show up with the name of the bidder who won the auction. >>
genius
<< <i>Tremendous Willie. >>
Indeed.
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
"yes, we are seeing strength in industry right now... "
I guess it is possible he has a massive personal collection and got these to add to it or he sees an opportunity
to relist these in the future with an eye towards making a profit. Either way good for him.
Has anyone decided who will be starting the thread about Probstein for today 2/24? Or will there be multiple?
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>yes, I won these 2 cards...I snipe...I use bidnapper.com >>
Rick,
I appreciate the brief acknowledgement. Any specific reason for the interest in these cards? As stated previously, I'm pretty sure this is the first time I lost an auction to you. At the same time, I've bought a number of items from you in the past (with no problems or complaints) for the same set (at acceptable purchase prices). From an auction point of view, I have no problems. I'm trying to understand the market and the buyers I'm up against, especially for these cards. Frankly, had I been aware of your interest in these cards at those prices, I wouldn't even have bid. Prices on those cards for PSA 9's are not outrageous, and they have come to market recently.
You are certainly under no obligation to me to explain your actions, but I really am curious. I'm not trying to be smart, but I'd like to know the rationale for basically paying 100% to 200% FMV, not to mention the SMR multiple. Do you have a personal collection? Do you feel the market is taking off? Do you feel the population report for the cards is misrepresented? Do you buy for folks who want to remain anonymous? Do you have better scans of the cards and feel they were undergraded? Just give me something, if at all possible. Call it an opportunity to market yourself and your business. Do your part in making the hobby a little more transparent. Right now, I'm not impressed by the lack of answers/responses I get from PSA and dealers alike. I don't need condescending attitudes and confusion. Communication is key in today's world, and you are the only person who can answer properly the questions I've posed. Yes, it's America. You can bid on anything and choose not to address the situation. That does nothing but spur controversy and start critical and defensive posts like those above.
Thank you. I look forward to your response and doing more business with you in the future.
o.c.trading
<< <i>
<< <i>yes, I won these 2 cards...I snipe...I use bidnapper.com >>
Rick,
I appreciate the brief acknowledgement. Any specific reason for the interest in these cards? As stated previously, I'm pretty sure this is the first time I lost an auction to you. At the same time, I've bought a number of items from you in the past (with no problems or complaints) for the same set (at acceptable purchase prices). From an auction point of view, I have no problems. I'm trying to understand the market and the buyers I'm up against, especially for these cards. Frankly, had I been aware of your interest in these cards at those prices, I wouldn't even have bid. Prices on those cards for PSA 9's are not outrageous, and they have come to market recently.
You are certainly under no obligation to me to explain your actions, but I really am curious. I'm not trying to be smart, but I'd like to know the rationale for basically paying 100% to 200% FMV, not to mention the SMR multiple. Do you have a personal collection? Do you feel the market is taking off? Do you feel the population report for the cards is misrepresented? Do you buy for folks who want to remain anonymous? Do you have better scans of the cards and feel they were undergraded? Just give me something, if at all possible. Call it an opportunity to market yourself and your business. Do your part in making the hobby a little more transparent. Right now, I'm not impressed by the lack of answers/responses I get from PSA and dealers alike. I don't need condescending attitudes and confusion. Communication is key in today's world, and you are the only person who can answer properly the questions I've posed. Yes, it's America. You can bid on anything and choose not to address the situation. That does nothing but spur controversy and start critical and defensive posts like those above.
Thank you. I look forward to your response and doing more business with you in the future.
o.c.trading >>
You forgot to end it it with ""Please-please-please-pretty please- tell me, please-please-please"...
Just curious... do you get this butthurt every time someone snipes you? Do you grill all of them about why they did so as well? Why do you need to know so badly? Seems rather childish to me...you obviously think he knows something you don't- and now it's just killing you not knowing.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>yes, I won these 2 cards...I snipe...I use bidnapper.com >>
Rick,
I appreciate the brief acknowledgement. Any specific reason for the interest in these cards? As stated previously, I'm pretty sure this is the first time I lost an auction to you. At the same time, I've bought a number of items from you in the past (with no problems or complaints) for the same set (at acceptable purchase prices). From an auction point of view, I have no problems. I'm trying to understand the market and the buyers I'm up against, especially for these cards. Frankly, had I been aware of your interest in these cards at those prices, I wouldn't even have bid. Prices on those cards for PSA 9's are not outrageous, and they have come to market recently.
You are certainly under no obligation to me to explain your actions, but I really am curious. I'm not trying to be smart, but I'd like to know the rationale for basically paying 100% to 200% FMV, not to mention the SMR multiple. Do you have a personal collection? Do you feel the market is taking off? Do you feel the population report for the cards is misrepresented? Do you buy for folks who want to remain anonymous? Do you have better scans of the cards and feel they were undergraded? Just give me something, if at all possible. Call it an opportunity to market yourself and your business. Do your part in making the hobby a little more transparent. Right now, I'm not impressed by the lack of answers/responses I get from PSA and dealers alike. I don't need condescending attitudes and confusion. Communication is key in today's world, and you are the only person who can answer properly the questions I've posed. Yes, it's America. You can bid on anything and choose not to address the situation. That does nothing but spur controversy and start critical and defensive posts like those above.
Thank you. I look forward to your response and doing more business with you in the future.
o.c.trading >>
I am not sure I understand your concern. If the prices quoted are right, he paid a little above the last sale for one card that hasn't been to auction in quite some time and less than it sold for in 2010. For the other card, he bid one increment higher than someone else was willing to pay for a card that hasn't come up in auction in 18 months or so. You said in your first post they are desirable low pops. Were you the under-bidder on each? If so, he was only willing to pay about $1 more than you. If not, he isn't the only one who thinks they are worth that.
Just curious what you thought FMV was (you mention he paid 100-200%)?
.
.
<< <i>Just let this be a lesson that Probstein is actively selling AND buying cards on ebay. >>
I don't understand why this would be a problem.
With respect to FMV for the items in question, I know of a seller who has a Surkont PSA 8 listed for under $100 ($95, if my memory serves me correctly). That is still a premium to SMR but not a fairly large one. It's actually not a matter of losing the auction. Rather, I feel my bid was too high in the first place. My bid was more of a convenience bid whereby I didn't have to request scans of the card and additional info prior to purchase. Rick is entitled to make the same call. The Pesky PSA 8 price is undoubtedly more justified, based on actual historical sales. That said, the transaction price is still at FMV.
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!
==> correct, they went off low
Ebay Store:
Probstein123
phone: 973 747 6304
email: rickprobstein1@gmail.com
Probstein123 is actively accepting CONSIGNMENTS !!