1831 & 1832 H10C Variety Help (updated with PICS), and BTW NEWPS.

2ltdjorn

I just purchased a pair of H10C today at a local Civil War Show. The coins are both PCGS, with proof-like fields.

1831 H10C PCGS AU 58





1832 H10C PCGS AU 55





I was looking over them at home, and I noted on the 1832 on the reverse their are a pair of cracks from the rim to the Ribbon transecting the "A" in America, also the "O" in OF is significantly repunched, where may I find information on varieties on these?

MrHalfDime

Start here for descriptions and pictures of your coins. Also, try here for help in attributing your coins. With photographs I will be able to better help you, or at a minimum, more detailed descriptions would be of help

2ltdjorn

Thanks for taking time to respond. I think what I have is described by Breen 2991.

2ltdjorn

I believe I have a 1832 LM-10 EDS of the cud seen on the con on Rich Ulrich's site the R-6

1832 LM-10 R-6 Cud

2ltdjorn

1831 PCGS AU 58 is LM-5

1832 PCGS AU 55, identified the U Reverse... working on the obverse... thinking a LM 10.2 with the die chip on the N

Thanks for the info... this is quite fun.

MrHalfDime

"I believe I have a 1832 LM-10 EDS of the cud seen on the con on Rich Ulrich's site the R-6"

Be careful. One cannot properly attribute any coin by simply looking at one side. What you have may look like the LM-10 with the cud, but there are other remarriages in between the various die states (remarriages) of the 1832 LM-10 (e.g., 1832 LM-11). The relative value of these remarriages varies greatly, especially when one is talking about the very rare 1832 LM-10.4, of which only a few exist. In order to properly attribute the CBHD's, one simply cannot do so by just looking at the pictures, even in the Logan/McCloskey book. As I have stated here many times, it is necessary (read that 'essential') to read pages 1-78 of the L/M book to properly attribute the half dimes.

If you could possible post images of both obverse and reverse, we could positively attribute your coin.

And, yes, this is fun. But be careful. Before long you will be hooked, ravenously seeking out additional die marriages. It is a sickness, for which there is no cure.

2ltdjorn

Sir,

Thanks, I meant to say the die cracks are similar to the shape of the cud on the reverse on the R-6 LM-10 on Rich's site... trying to work on the obverse.

Edit to Add:

I believe it is the obverse 4.

MrHalfDime

If it is, in fact, obverse 4, then it would be the 1832 LM-10 die marriage. It would then remain to determine just which re-marriage it is (i.e., LM-10.1, LM-10.2, or even LM-10.3; we will assume that it is not the LM-10.4, with the full cud).

Incidentally, I presently own the Logan/McCloskey plate coin for the 1832 LM-10.4, a beautifully attractive AU-50, with the entire TES OF A obliterated by a massive cud. I also have a gorgeous MS-63 example of the LM-10.4, but without the full cud. It has a series of retained cuds defining the area of the die that eventually broke away.

2ltdjorn

I believe the 1832 to be a 10.3, as the die crack from the rim continues through the A along the top of the ribbon to the B, and then up through the T in states.

MrHalfDime

From your description, that would sound correct. But only a photograph or the coin in hand can tell for sure.

2ltdjorn

I shot this photo with my iphone through a loupe... i apologize

Barndog

neat photos, looks like it has the characteristics for the 10.3

as long as there is not a die crack through the F in OF, and it doesn't appear that there is one, it would likely be the 10.3. Once that crack develops, you are looking at the 10.4

Would be interested in seeing pics of your 1832 LM 10.4 with cud too.

2ltdjorn

No crack through the F, 2 cracks through the A in America, and the snaking of a crack from the ribbon up through the second T in States

2ltdjorn

I believe from looking at photos on heritage, and the sites provided. that I have a 1832 LM 10.4 retained cud. As the crack arises from the rim transecting the second A down to the scroll, along the scroll till it continues up to through the second T (the crack stops in the cross bar of the T, and does not continue to the rim).


edit to add: a very early die state that will eventually lead to the full cud.

very similar to this one:

Heritage LM 10.4

MrHalfDime

In order to fully understand what your coin is, you really need to understand the concept of remarriages. The Reverse die U did not simply evolve directly from the 1832 LM-10.3 to the 1832 LM-10.4. There was another complete die marriage, using the same Reverse die U, chronologically involved in the emission sequence between these two remarriages for 1832. It was the 1833 LM-4.3. Without a full understanding of what is involved with the 1833 LM-4.3, you cannot accurately place your coin in the emission sequence. The best advice here is to pay close attention to what Barndog stated earlier:

"as long as there is not a die crack through the F in OF, and it doesn't appear that there is one, it would likely be the 10.3"

I would concur that your 1831 is an example of the LM-5/V5, an R1 die marriage. I would also concur with Barndog, that your 1832 is an example of the LM-10.3.

Bikergeek

@2ltdjorn I'm waking this thread up after a dozen years to give an update on one of your coins. The 1832 LM-10.3 you attributed here now sports a green CAC sticker. It was sold at auction, concurrent with the ANA show, on 8/15/21 by W. David Perkins. I bid $5,163 on it - and was only the underbidder.

It's a gorgeous coin, in a high-demand holder (PCGS/CAC) and a very scarce remarriage to boot. Kudos for bringing it forward!

Cladiator

Holy ancient thread Batman!