NEWP GTG: 1874-H Canada 5 cents Crosslet 4 grade revealed

Pokermandude · February 13, 2013 5:34AM

My pics followed by the True View pics.

Grade: MS-63. PCGS SP holder.

MacCrimmon · February 13, 2013 5:52AM

Genuine - Whizzed

coinpictures · February 13, 2013 5:52AM

Nice! Your pics are better than the trueview. MS64?

DoubleEagle59 · February 13, 2013 6:01AM

Not a snowball's chance in hades it's whizzed.

I'm having a real difficult time grading this.

Could be as low as an au58 or as high as an ms64.

Tough one.

I'll be looking forward to seeing the grade.

Chinesecoincollector · February 13, 2013 6:06AM

1960NYGiants · February 13, 2013 10:06AM

Beautiful coin MS65

bidask · February 13, 2013 11:34AM

They look very nice

I would guess 62-63

YQQ · February 13, 2013 12:02PM

Narrow large date
repunched 1/1
repunched 8/8
sloping thick pointed 7
crosslet 4

my guess at the grade: MS63

marcmoish · February 13, 2013 12:20PM

its not whizzed or whatever...and personally I like the trueview/pcgs pics which depicts nice eye appeal overall - looks MS62 ..I like it ...nice pickup Pokerman you da dude!

edited to add; I mean THIS particular true-view photo .. not all of them all the time

ColinCMR · February 13, 2013 2:11PM

Fancy 4! Never seen that before

There has been some really nice Canadians on here lately

Senex · February 13, 2013 11:07PM

pmac · February 13, 2013 11:22PM

Just like your name to know when to show us. I've got patience.

7Jaguars · February 13, 2013 11:51PM

I'm going 63 on this. Hair and brow, etc. look pretty good.

That having been said, the usual disclosure that I don't collect Canadian...

Pokermandude · February 14, 2013 1:44PM

Some interesting opinions so far

Everything from whizzed to AU to MS65. I won't reveal the grade quite yet but will give some more input:

PCGS and I agree that it isn't whizzed.
There are some hairlines on the coin. A tiny amount between the E and 5 on the reverse, a moderate amount on the obverse on the cheek, neck and in front of Victoria's face.
The vertical lines on the reverse below CENTS and the date are die polish lines.
The lustre is a bit better than the images suggest for the reverse. And a lot better than the obverse pictures suggest. There are areas where the lustre is muted a bit, but for the most part there is lustre even on the highest points (eg face/cheek)
There is a bit of flatness on the very highest braid and/or hair above/in front of the ear. This may or may not be how it was initially struck.

coinlieutenant · February 15, 2013 12:46AM

MS63.

syl · February 15, 2013 5:01AM

I see just a bit of wear on the eye brow, the hair in the bun, the tuft going back to the ear, and on the knot of the bow on the Reverse. I'd say 58, but I'm not that great on silver ... just bronze, and I'm not heavy into bright and shiny's. I'm an XF+ and AU guy for all my collection, because I want them minimally circulated .. the history and people who used/spent them before is close to my collecting heart.

YQQ · February 15, 2013 5:31AM

This post is not an issue about which coin is the better grade. It does not matter for the purpose of this post.
What I am trying to show is the difference in grades between TPG's.
I am going to take this whole post a step further by posting Pokerdudes pictures next to mine. (Hope you do not crucify me for copying your images. I do respect copyrights)

Same coin, same year, same type..... BUT a different TPG and , I am sure, a different grade... I assume much different!
also, please consider in your evaluations that my coin was originally scanned before it was slabbed. Not a photograph.
Back then, my scanning skills were on the low ladder end.
Any and all comments on grades etc or anything else are much appreciated and welcome.

here they are...

DoubleEagle59 · February 15, 2013 7:09AM

YQQ.....yours is a perfect example why I don't like grading from a scanned image.

There is little 'realism' or 'depth' to your coin's image and personally, I stay away from grading scanned images.

As a result, I'm not sure if yours is better or worse than the OP's coin.

Too bad, because your coin could have added a great sidebar to this thread.

Pokermandude · February 15, 2013 7:27AM

Agreed, scans generally make it very hard to judge a coin. Especially the lustre. YQQ's example seems to be lacking lustre on both sides leading me to think it's in the AU55-58 range.

The coin in the OP is MS-63 PCGS SP. I think it is accurate. But I am not all that familiar with the nuances of grading small, high-end Victorian silver pieces.

There is just too much lustre left everywhere (even the high points) to call it AU58, IMO. I'd call it a case of "cabinet friction" which is usually associated with larger MS coins getting a minute amount of "wear" from sliding a coin in and out of a paper envelope over and over again over the years.

DoubleEagle59 · February 15, 2013 10:59AM

It looks very acceptable as an ms63.

Nice coin!

YQQ · February 15, 2013 2:20PM

EAGLE, it was never meant to be a contest by me posting this. i thought i made that clear in my post. And scanning is out for me for some time now.
Pokerman, is the coin actually MS or SP graded??? which one is it???
I would be surprised if it would be SP (Specimen), valued at $ 2500 list. But if they say so... good for you.
I wanted to demo the differences between TPGs. and I think it worked to some extend, I hope. i think the demo worked because you guys reacted and made comments.
actually I was hoping the PMD would not reveal his grade so soon. Next time I will PM him.
Maybe we , or one of you guys, should start a side bar post about it with others also showing samples.
Poker dude is right.. as usual. My coin is ICCS AU 58, graded about 5+ years ago.
It is time to relief the coin from its jail and take new pictures and send it to someone else for grading, as i will sell the coin sometimes in the near future. ( have a better one) and it will sell better graded.
grading... I sure hate to send it ( and others similar) to our host because of the prohibitive costs.
Now, there is the big question: where will it sell best??? Canada or the US?? ICCS - CCCS(hard slab) or OCGS? Private or auction or, Feebay?
I know the question is not fair.. but.. it has to be asked.
thanks guys.. it was fun..
perhaps someone will do another new post about grading?

Pokermandude · February 17, 2013 6:59AM

I felt it was time to reveal the grade since a good portion of the active Canadian collectors and other posters on this board had chimed in. Thanks everyone!

YQQ: It's a business strike, MS-63. By PCGS SP I meant Secure Plus. But that does remind me that I need to take some pictures with my new camera of a nicely toned specimen 1937 50c I picked up a while ago

Chinesecoincollector · February 19, 2013 12:26PM

Very nice coin - be proud to own it. Very conservative on the 63 grade, it has that mid-choice unc "63" look to it. However, low Amt. of hits - ATS may have 64'd it.

Great coin to own.

YQQ · February 20, 2013 1:02AM

<< <i> ATS may have 64'd it. >>

who is ATS????
ok, so they , who ever they are, may have given it a 64,
ANACS maybe a 65, also ICG,
NGC probably a 64...
and, ICCS may have done a 62, maybe not??
and CCCS maybe a 62, most likely a 60
Everyone get my point?
everyone has different perceptions...
in Europe it is an advantage NOT to have it graded...
guess why?

Chinesecoincollector · February 20, 2013 1:22AM

Ngc. "Accoss the street"

Pokermandude · February 20, 2013 2:39AM

Yes, YQQ, grading is somewhat subjective. But you'll notice that the majority vote on the grade of my coin was actually dead on. So it's not as much of a crapshoot as you make it out to be

BTW re: your AU-58 graded coin. Why crack (or cut, in the case of ICCS holders) and resubmit? ICCS holders can be a bit difficult to take good pictures through, so I get that. But I can't see yours getting into an MS holder. It's still nice, just not Unc. I have plenty of AU graded coins that I like the look of more than my MS60-62 and sometimes even MS63 coins.

MacCrimmon · February 20, 2013 4:03AM

I'm sticking with "Genuine - Whizzed", or maybe a light buff with jewelers rouge back in the 1920s.

YQQ · February 20, 2013 2:46PM

Pokerman, I have the coin in hand, in a ICCS coffin..
I know what it looks like....and it will come out...
taking a regular image is worth the re-submitting cost.
will post images when it comes ou and before it goes away...

YQQ · February 20, 2013 2:48PM

Mc crimmon... NOT !!!!!!! whizzed
I can post a story about whizzed coins, 14K worth of them by a Canadian Auctioneer...
any interest??? But I will name names..., as it is fact!

lordmarcovan · February 20, 2013 3:02PM

Wow, nice piece. Dunno why I didn't open this thread until now.

And man, coinpictures is right... your pictures are actually better than the TrueViews! High praise indeed.

I want a 1901 fishscale that looks like that.

MacCrimmon · February 20, 2013 3:19PM

<< <i>Mc crimmon... NOT !!!!!!! whizzed
I can post a story about whizzed coins, 14K worth of them by a Canadian Auctioneer...
any interest??? But I will name names..., as it is fact! >>

YQQ, that's my new GTG guess for anything.....................unless of course, someone offers a cash giveaway for most grades matching the TPGs.

SYRACUSIAN · February 21, 2013 4:05AM

<< <i>My pics followed by the True View pics.

Grade: MS-63. PCGS SP holder. >>

Nice coin. I too prefer your set of pictures, but the second set that you posted is not TrueView. It's the complimentary image that PCGS provides to every Secure Plus holdered coin. I don't think that the photographer is the same either. TrueView pictures have a lot more detail and color, and they come in a frame with the logo of the company and the cert number.

NEWP GTG: 1874-H Canada 5 cents Crosslet 4 *grade revealed*

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NEWP GTG: 1874-H Canada 5 cents Crosslet 4 grade revealed