1847 No Motto Seated dollar (w/grading poll)

lordmarcovan

Here is the fourth purchase for my new VF-XF 19th century basic type set. This one had the look I'm after, so I pulled the trigger after some negotiation with the seller. These negotiations were hampered by some miscommunications at first, but that was neither entirely the seller's fault nor my own. After some confusion, we finally ended up discussing the coin over the telephone, and he seemed to be a pretty pleasant person, if not the best listener in the world. So I committed to buy it.

I had to stretch a little bit past my usual $500 budgetary ceiling for this one, but not by too much. Tell me what you think. By Numismedia trends, I paid about midway between VF and XF money, so as long as the forum grading consensus falls within those parameters, I guess I did OK. I figured I'd have a go at the somewhat more expensive types during this transitional period, while I still have funds coming in from my recently retired love token collection.

Full disclosure: the image below has been digitally manipulated... by me. Because I lack proper camera equipment and skills, I usually recycle the sellers' pictures for my collections. I'm better at editing pictures than I am at taking them. Those skills came in handy here, because the seller's pictures were taken through a Mylar 2x2 and there was a longish white hair lying across the back of the holder. So, using the eyedropper and other tools on my rather dated photo editing software, I "painted" the hair out. I mention this in case a sharp eyed person saw any discrepancies. Maybe I'll get a more professional photographer to reimage it later. (In the nude, shed of its cardboard 2x2). But I think I did an OK job of "de-hairifying" the picture, and my consolidated image below should be quite sufficient for grading purposes.

So... grade it! And please tell me what you think. Thanks!





PCGS/Photograde standards

Index of similar grading poll threads like this

crypto79

VF35 , nice and original

lordmarcovan

For the record, I voted EF40 in the poll, to concur with what the seller called it. I would not, however, be surprised if we end up seeing a lot of VF25-30-35 votes, and I'm OK with that, because I essentially paid what I believe to be strong VF money for this. To be candid, if somebody else were posting this poll, I myself might might have said VF30 or VF35 some of the time, based on these pictures. (I have not seen the coin in hand yet as of this post.)

crypto79

I like a rounded shoulder and full hairline for EF (depending on the year and strike) but it just misses it. There is little price difference between a PQ VF35 and an Avg XF40 and that coin is worth EF money IMO

lordmarcovan

<< <i>I like a rounded shoulder and full hairline for EF (depending on the year and strike) but it just misses it. There is little price difference between a PQ VF35 and an Avg XF40 and that coin is worth EF money IMO >>

Thanks. That sort of follows my line of reasoning, and I'm glad to hear that thought validated by somebody else.

TPRC

I voted 30 but I could easily see 35. The coin is a little dark, but looks original. If it is pleasing looking in hand and original, and it certainly looks to be, then I cannot see how you can go wrong on this piece. Original pieces in this series and in the 40s are so much the exception rather than the rule, that they are a good investment in xf-ish at under 1k, IMO.
Congrats.

ajman

I love the "look" of this coin and I grade it as a VF 25. The reverse looks stronger to me than the obverse, but I wouldn't be surprised if it graded VF 30. Well done my Lord!

lordmarcovan

<< <i>they are a good investment in xf-ish at under 1k, IMO >>

Well, I've got only a smidgeon over half that amount invested in this piece now.

MFH

Not a big fan on the over all look,
LIBERTY is too weak for a mid/high VF.

I voted VF 20.

.......edit: Thanks for the Link...
I see its a text book VF 20.

coinkat

Like the look and 35 is as good as it gets. Originality speaks to me on this one very favorably.

I agree with those that see originals in a VF35 TO AU as being undervalued- I have suggested that for years and the prices seem to be moving upward

coinkat

Let me take this opportunity to explain why I see this as a 35

The obverse carries this coin and the grade. There looks to be protected areas of lustre above the shield and in the drapery. The reverse looks marginal for a 35 and I can see those thinking 30.

The Liberty may seem weak but that could in part be due to the strike.

lordmarcovan

I see our "VG voter" has weighed in, now.

Reliably, at least one person will always go for the lowest option on one of my grading polls; VG in this case.

PS- please don't everbody just start doing that, for giggles. I figure enough folks take these threads seriously to make the results reasonably reliable. In any statistical study, even of opinions, there's likely to be an allowance made for technical margin of "error", right?

lordmarcovan

There. I think I finally got all the image issues sorted out (and figured out how to deactivate that scrambling feature which Photobucket uses to jam a bunch of extra random crap into the image URLs- yay). Good thing this new collection is only four coins deep, and I only had three images in the album so far! Otherwise all the recent Photobucket changes would have had me REALLY pulling my hair out!

Thanks for those who gave me a heads-up that the pix weren't working for a while. I had changed an album title and then found myself on the Beta version of Photobucket's site, adrift and dumbfounded.

STONE

I like it as a VF-30. The TPG's tend to give another grade on Seated Dollars it seems from the likes of the other Seated denominations with similar/identical details.

So I wouldn't be surprised if it grades at 35, and I don't see it going 40.

lordmarcovan

In retrospect, I don't see it as a 40 anymore, either, despite my initial optimism in so voting on the poll. I just sort of went along with the seller on that because I liked the coin and could live with the price.

Now I revert to my true instincts and jump on the VF+ bandwagon. Eye appeal and "CircCam" contrast was more on my mind than technical grade when I bought it, but I'll need to watch out for this in the future because it could get me into trouble if I let myself get blinded by my love of a coin's "look" and blithely disregard the technicalities a TPG might look at.

Not that I have any intention of submitting this to a TPG anytime soon. I'm sort of doing things "backwards"- my ancient collection is now a slabbed set (defying all popular convention- slabs are not loved in that arena), and my US set is raw. I guess I have a contrarian streak.

bidask

Very original.......congrats!

AnkurJ

Ill be the odd man out and say genuine. The darkness on the reverse is a little too dark for my tastes. I dont think it would slab.

Moldnut

<< <i>I like it as a VF-30. The TPG's tend to give another grade on Seated Dollars it seems from the likes of the other Seated denominations with similar/identical details.

So I wouldn't be surprised if it grades at 35, and I don't see it going 40.[/q

And you can add the 20c coins to the list of giving another grade.

VanHalen

VF30 vote here. Could easily go 35 though.

rec78

I'll be the odd man out and say it is a 40. Seated dollars are graded differently then the halves or quarters. The liberty is strong enough for an XF. But it could be a 35.
Bob

lordmarcovan

This coin is in hand today and looks just like the pictures. Some folks might say it's a bit dark, but it suits my goals perfectly. I like 'em dark if they've got the contrast to make the design "pop". This one is a keeper, at least for the duration of this collection.

In order to sniff out potential CircCams on eBay, I tried "dark" as a keyword. Needless to say, it produced a whole lot of junk. But a few interesting, "hmmm, that almost made it" kind of pieces.

I'm gonna have a deuce of a time finding appealing CircCams in the copper and nickel coins, because especially with nickels, "dark" almost always goes hand-in-hand with "porous". But there are some decent ones out there. I've found several that had the right look but weren't high enough grade.

johnny9434

vf35/xf40. ill keep quiet on the rest of it, jmo

amwldcoin

I voted VF-30. I think it is a nice original piece and probably deserving of the XF price you paid!

lordmarcovan

<< <i>vf35/xf40. ill keep quiet on the rest of it, jmo >>

No, go ahead. Spill it. Unless you really prefer to keep quiet.



<< <i>I voted VF-30. I think it is a nice original piece and probably deserving of the XF price you paid! >>

Actually I paid a little less than XF money, at least per Numismedia.

renomedphys

Once the shield lines start to blend, it's VF. Since they're barely blending, I'd say 35. Other than that, there's lots to like about the coin. Lots of good meat left.

lordmarcovan

Hey, renomedphys, I just bought one of your old coins from Rick Snow, for this set.

IrishMikey

You have done well, my son. I grade this a PQ VF-35, a coin I would be proud to put in my set.

NumisOxide

I voted VF35

Great circ-cam look.