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ANACS coins in old white holders Part Deux: Grades Revealed

rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
I must admit, I am a bit of a scumbag for starting the other thread about the 1861-s half when I already got its PCGS grade yesterday. image

However, it was really fun to watch the discussion go ballistic for a few hours, much as I did when I first found the hidden rim bumps.

There was another coin cracked out of an old white ANACS holder in this submission: a beautiful, well struck 1811 Bust half that was ANACS AU50. I grade it AU55 minimum. No rim bumps this time, so I was pleased after the cracking. (I thought I had a photo, but it is nowhere to be found.) Anyway, here's how the two coins turned out:

1861-S 50C PCGS MS61

1811 50C Genuine- questionable color

Congrats to those who guessed MS61 in the other thread. I guess the conclusion is that the AU58 grade by ANACS was one of those instances where they assigned a "net grade" without indicating so on the holder. PCGS decided it netted out to MS61 instead. It's probably worth less in this grade due to the Everyman AU58 Effect!


As for the 1811 half, it I guess this coin turned out to be the real reason not to buy coins in old ANACS holders. Never crossed my mind that it might bag for color! Cruel irony.

Edited to add: the chain cent in the other thread is obviously damaged, so I didn't try to cross it.

Comments

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,982 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Congrats on the seated half grading higher!image

    You just gotta try again with the bust half. You know what they say, if the grade doesn't fit ya gotta resubmit or something like that.

  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's more like, "If the grade doesn't fit, get a jar of Dip...." image
  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,982 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's more like, "If the grade doesn't fit, get a jar of Dip...." image >>


    That could work too!image
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's probably worth less in this grade due to the Everyman AU58 Effect! >>



    They even each other out from what I see looking at price guide.
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I gotta mind to start a thread on the pro's and con's of cracking my '57-O quarter from an older PCI-60 holder for a try at our host.image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.americanlegacycoins.com

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd love to see pix of the 1811.
    Lance.
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I gotta mind to start a thread on the pro's and con's of cracking my '57-O quarter from an older PCI-60 holder for a try at our host.image >>



    PCI? It may look great in the slab, but when you crack it, it will turn out to be aluminum foil filled with chocolate.


    In all seriousness, I once bought an 1857-O quarter in VF35 in a SEGS holder at a Baltimore show for $28. It turned out to be the Briggs plate coin for 7-C, a misplaced date variety with less than 10 still known, probably worth $600-1000 right now. I guess nobody cared about Seated quarter varieties back then.





  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,254 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I must admit, I am a bit of a scumbag for starting the other thread about the 1861-s half when I already got its PCGS grade yesterday. >>



    So, you bashed the old ANACS slabs knowing that PCGS already upgraded your coin. I agree with your scumbag assessment.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.



  • << <i>PCI? It may look great in the slab, but when you crack it, it will turn out to be aluminum foil filled with chocolate. >>


    image
    Regards,
    Dolan
  • sniocsusniocsu Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭
    Congrats on the Seated half!!
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So, you bashed the old ANACS slabs knowing that PCGS already upgraded your coin. I agree with your scumbag assessment. >>




    No apologies to ANACS on this one. I just about suffered a heart attack after finding the rim bumps after I cracked it. I would have been really ticked if both of them bagged. image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,254 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So, you bashed the old ANACS slabs knowing that PCGS already upgraded your coin. I agree with your scumbag assessment. >>




    No apologies to ANACS on this one. I just about suffered a heart attack after finding the rim bumps after I cracked it. I would have been really ticked if both of them bagged. image >>



    Those minor rim bumps apparently didn't bother PCGS too much if they gave it an MS-6!.image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • I guess I don't see much value in your warning after PCGS upgraded the first coin and then you talk like ANACS is the only company who could have got the color wrong on the half. ANACS provided and opinion and so did PCGS so it's up to the coins owner to decide for themselves who's right.

    As an example I had about 12 PCGS genuine Lincolns consigned them to me....all were toned though none with any major rainbows etc and dates ranged from 1909 to 1950. I cracked them out and submitted all of them to NGC as they looked ok to me...and 11 of the 12 coins graded. So based on your logic I shouldn't buy Lincolns from PCGS because they can't judge color or should I not buy toned Lincolns from NGC because they can't judge color image
  • richardshipprichardshipp Posts: 5,647 ✭✭✭
    To somewhat bash old small anacs holdered coins in one thread then say the coin upgraded in another thread seems strange to me. I guess I would ask you this... Do you intend to not look at potential purchases in old small anacs holders (that you'll try to get upgrades on) any longer due to what you feel might be hidden rim issues?
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,366 ✭✭✭✭
    I normally dont buy ANACS coins but made an exception when I bought this 1820 Bust Half from Sheridan Downey. This was part of the collection of David Rutherford. The coin currently resides in a small ANACS AU50 holder, but it was graded slightly higher by an excellent grader I know.

    It will be sent on to PCGS as a crossover with no min grade.

    image
    image

    AJ
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭
    There are some great, conservatively graded coins in those smaller, old ANACS holders. Of course, there are some not-so-great coins as well, but that's just par for the course.

    Ankur, I think you will do just fine on the 1820 Half.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

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  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess I don't see much value in your warning after PCGS upgraded the first coin and then you talk like ANACS is the only company who could have got the color wrong on the half.


    Well, take my warning FWIW. If you're a diehard fan of old ANACS holders, then best of luck with your crossovers when the time comes. I actually like their grading standards quite a bit, but the possibility of hidden rim issues in the white plastic has soured me considerably, as you can see. NGC has the same problem with their older holders. As for the other comment, I'm not sure where you're reading that I think only ANACS would get the color wrong now and then. I have similar feelings about NGC and the third-world services.

    Those minor rim bumps apparently didn't bother PCGS too much if they gave it an MS-6!.

    I'm highly suspicious that some of you might be friends with the old ANACS crew. image
  • PonyExpress8PonyExpress8 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭
    I've been successful way more often then not crossing the small white holders. Like rattlers and fatties though a lot of these have been crosssed/regraded now. So always buy the coin not the holder of course.

    One thing I always liked was the nice compact size of these older holders. They were pretty sturdy, weighed a lot less, and the coin looked pretty nice in it.

    I would love to see a viable small holder option again. LOL I must be getting old as the idea that comes to mind is hefting into the overhead might be easier, able to put more out in showcases etc. Oh well that will never happen as we all like bigger!!!

    And I would just probably bring more so net affect -0- image
    The End of the Line in the West.

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  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭✭
    I'll chime in with my two one-off old white ANACS holder experiences as well -- one worked out great, the other not. Had a 1904 $2.5 in MS62 old ANACS that both NGC and PCGS dnc it -- finally, annoyed, I cracked it out and sent back to PCGS as a raw submission -- came back MS63.

    On the other hand, had a very nice-appearing 1920-D Walker in old ANACS in VF, super surfaces front and back, cracked it out for an album -- and the edges were a sickly, mottled, pitted PVC green. Should never have been put into a problem-free holder, was quite invisible when in the ANACS slab. Sold that one raw to a sympathetic local dealer just to get rid of it, and took a significant loss.

    I'll admit the OP reminded me of that incident, and I've not forgotten it ever really!
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,563 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, thanks for sharing that, originalisbest. There's nothing quite like the horror of cracking a coin out to find a hidden rim problem. It doesn't matter whether it grades at that point or not. I bet you never would have bought that 1920-D, had you been able to view the rim beforehand.
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭✭
    You're quite right rhedden! Fortunately, it would appear to be rare occurence, as I've never had such a problem revealed before or since when occasionally cracking a coin out. Guess that was my time to be unlucky, just glad it wasn't an AU or MS piece (but then, I would've had my hesitations about that $$$ value in a small white ANACS, vs in PCGS plastic.)
  • IrishMikeyIrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭
    All of the services had "hidden rim" holders early on. However, the switch to the prong style inserts
    occurred more as a reaction to the "sawed in half" alterations that were being sold in fake holders.

    Believe me, the sick feeling you have when a hidden rim or edge problem appears after a coin is cracked
    out of a holder is NOTHING when compared to the feeling you get when two separate pieces fall out of
    a fake holder (and some of these holders were pretty deceptive).

    I know from conversations at coin shows that way too many collectors and dealers got burned by these.
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭✭
    That's a very interesting point of view I hadn't considered Irishmikey, and makes a lot of sense. FWIW, I've gotten used to the prong holders now, and (no surprise) prefer the PCGS clear to the NGC white -- just don't care for NGC holders aesthetically, but that's not to say I wouldn't buy an NGC coin if I liked it and the price. Thanks for the info! image

    The two separate halves issue in a slab just sounds like a new twist on the old classic "1916-D" dime in a super-thick Capital Plastics-type holder; a wonderful deal is made until the holder is later opened up. image

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