Is it really that unbelievable? How many riots have occurred in the US after a team wins or loses a big game? This behavior is not localized to any region of the world.
<< <i>Is it really that unbelievable? How many riots have occurred in the US after a team wins or loses a big game? This behavior is not localized to any region of the world. >>
Except this wasn't where a bunch of drunk die hards flipped a couple cars or accidentally fell from a tree and killed themselves after their team won/lost a big game. In the original game, fans chased players and fans of the other team around with guns and knives, killing 73. Today, 30 plus were murdered and over 300 injured because of the sentencing for those prior murders. Oh, and they aren't done sentencing people from the original killings either. In the Vancouver hockey riots there were 0 deaths and 140 injuries. In Los Angeles (famous for its riots) in 2010 after the Lakers won the title there were 0 deaths, numerous injuries, and a dozen or so arrests.
I was simply making the point that violence in relation to sporting events is not limited to the Middle East as was previously mentioned. And, as was mentioned in the story, the anniversary of the previous President being ousted was as much a factor as the sporting event itself. Egypt is still very much a nation in transition.
<< <i>I was simply making the point that violence in relation to sporting events is not limited to the Middle East as was previously mentioned. And, as was mentioned in the story, the anniversary of the previous President being ousted was as much a factor as the sporting event itself. Egypt is still very much a nation in transition. >>
Please you can be an apoligist for the middle East all you want however it doesnt erase the fact that they are the most out of control extremists in their life and death decision making, the only difference with this event was they didnt use god to justify their thug mentality.
<< <i>I wasn't making apologies for anyone did I? I simply suggested that violence in relation to sports is not limited to any one region. >>
Wow I must have missed that memo . I must be extra stupid as I don't recall a lot of people being killed or put to death from a US game .
As a general rule , the correlation between intelligence and morals , or a lack there of , is a stronger indicator towards violence in games or society as a whole . ----- Sonny
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
<< <i>I wasn't making apologies for anyone did I? I simply suggested that violence in relation to sports is not limited to any one region. >>
Wow I must have missed that memo . I must be extra stupid as I don't recall a lot of people being killed or put to death from a US game .
As a general rule , the correlation between intelligence and morals , or a lack there of , is a stronger indicator towards violence in games or society as a whole . ----- Sonny >>
You don't recall a SF Giant fan being nearly put to death in Los Angeles a couple of years ago? You don't recall massive riots that took place in Vancouver when they lost the finals? Throw in the political upheaval that has taken place (which is the main culprit here - this was the second anniversary of the former dictator being ousted) and you have a recipe for this type of mayhem and destruction.
No deaths for any of these events . Nobody sentenced to death . Nobody rioting over the sentence .
Yep , you've made a strong case .
I'll stick with my original premise of low intelligence and / or low morals being the main driver . Not the ONLY driver , just the primary mechanism .---- Sonny
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
<< <i>I was simply making the point that violence in relation to sporting events is not limited to the Middle East as was previously mentioned. And, as was mentioned in the story, the anniversary of the previous President being ousted was as much a factor as the sporting event itself. Egypt is still very much a nation in transition. >>
You're confusing civil disobedience with mass murders and executions.
Just sayin'
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
No deaths for any of these events . Nobody sentenced to death . Nobody rioting over the sentence .
Yep , you've made a strong case .
I'll stick with my original premise of low intelligence and / or low morals being the main driver . Not the ONLY driver , just the primary mechanism .---- Sonny >>
When it comes to soccer, the reason you see these kinds of riots and killings is because these games also have a political dimension to them. This is hard for us in the U.S. to understand, since virtually all of our sports rivalries stem from geopraphical factors, but it's the way many of these soccer rivalries are constructed. For example, the reason the Barcelona/Real Madrid rivalry is so fierce is because Franco's Fascists basically sacked Catalonia in the 1930's, and Real was the team that Franco passionately supported (both emotionally and financially). Ditto for a game like Celtic/Rangers in Glasgow, which is really just Catholics/Protestants with a ball and two goals.
Now, as for this Egyptian situation, I'm not really sure what happened. The big soccer derby in Egypt is Al-Ahly and Zamalek, and these riots sprang out of an Al-Ahly Al-Masry game, so I don't know how this got started. But I would guess that there were political underpinnings to this one as well.
While there's no doubt that U.S. sports fans are much better behaved than those in almost every other part of the world, I think a lot of that is due to the fact that we don't mix politics and sports. If we had matches taking place where one team was universally supported by a city's right-leaning populace, and another team supported by the left-leaning contingent, I bet we'd see far more of this kind of stuff (though perhaps not this bad) than we see currently.
No deaths for any of these events . Nobody sentenced to death . Nobody rioting over the sentence .
Yep , you've made a strong case .
I'll stick with my original premise of low intelligence and / or low morals being the main driver . Not the ONLY driver , just the primary mechanism .---- Sonny >>
When it comes to soccer, the reason you see these kinds of riots and killings is because these games also have a political dimension to them. This is hard for us in the U.S. to understand, since virtually all of our sports rivalries stem from geopraphical factors, but it's the way many of these soccer rivalries are constructed. For example, the reason the Barcelona/Real Madrid rivalry is so fierce is because Franco's Fascists basically sacked Catalonia in the 1950's, and Real was the team that Franco passionately supported (both emotionally and financially). Ditto for a game like Celtic/Rangers in Glasgow, which is really just Catholics/Protestants with a ball and two goals.
Now, as for this Egyptian situation, I'm not really sure what happened. The big soccer derby in Egypt is Al-Ahly and Zamalek, and these riots sprang out of an Al-Ahly Al-Masry game, so I don't know how this got started. But I would guess that there were political underpinnings to this one as well.
While there's no doubt that U.S. sports fans are much better behaved than those in almost every other part of the world, I think a lot of that is due to the fact that we don't mix politics and sports. If we had matches taking place where one team was universally supported by a city's right-leaning populace, and another team supported by the left-leaning contingent, I bet we'd see far more of this kind of stuff (though perhaps not this bad) than we see currently. >>
And that is completely understood, my point is that these killings are 100% related to the lunacy of the Middle East not the game of Soccer and its not "Unbelievable"
No deaths for any of these events . Nobody sentenced to death . Nobody rioting over the sentence .
Yep , you've made a strong case .
I'll stick with my original premise of low intelligence and / or low morals being the main driver . Not the ONLY driver , just the primary mechanism .---- Sonny >>
When it comes to soccer, the reason you see these kinds of riots and killings is because these games also have a political dimension to them. This is hard for us in the U.S. to understand, since virtually all of our sports rivalries stem from geopraphical factors, but it's the way many of these soccer rivalries are constructed. For example, the reason the Barcelona/Real Madrid rivalry is so fierce is because Franco's Fascists basically sacked Catalonia in the 1950's, and Real was the team that Franco passionately supported (both emotionally and financially). Ditto for a game like Celtic/Rangers in Glasgow, which is really just Catholics/Protestants with a ball and two goals.
Now, as for this Egyptian situation, I'm not really sure what happened. The big soccer derby in Egypt is Al-Ahly and Zamalek, and these riots sprang out of an Al-Ahly Al-Masry game, so I don't know how this got started. But I would guess that there were political underpinnings to this one as well.
While there's no doubt that U.S. sports fans are much better behaved than those in almost every other part of the world, I think a lot of that is due to the fact that we don't mix politics and sports. If we had matches taking place where one team was universally supported by a city's right-leaning populace, and another team supported by the left-leaning contingent, I bet we'd see far more of this kind of stuff (though perhaps not this bad) than we see currently. >>
And that is completely understood, my point is that these killings are 100% related to the lunacy of the Middle East not the game of Soccer and its not "Unbelievable" >>
It isn't restricted to the Middle East. I agree that many of the Middle Eastern countries are screwed up, but when it comes to soccer nobody across the Atlantic has a monopoly on violent reactions to soccer. Look at what the Greeks did last year, or do some Internet searches on Partizan/Red Star in Serbia. Or just look at the 7,000 fan brawl that broke out on the field of a Celtic/Rangers game. You don't see the mass killings, but you definitely see the rest of it.
This is even true in England. For example, you can't just go up to the ticket booth and buy a ticket to an EPL game, because you might end up supporting the 'wrong' team and get the s**t kicked out of you. And most of the pubs, from what I understand, will not admit you if you're wearing a soccer jersey. So you see this kind of nonsense even in a fairly restrained country like England.
Edit: Can't get the link to work, but for an example of what I'm talking about do a search for 'greek soccer riots' in Youtube. Some of the results you'll get are real dandies.
People are going to see what they want to see in these types of stories. If you have it in your mind that the people of the Middle East are barbaric, then you're going to see this and have your opinion reinforced.
Egypt is a country embroiled in turmoil due to the regime change that happened a couple years ago, and that was the impetus for these killings. Not justifying it, or saying it's right, just trying to provide some context. As was noted elsewhere, the Middle East doesn't have exclusive rights to soccer violence and/or hooliganism.
To be perfectly clear, I will never argue that soccer violence is a Middle East thing.
Im well aware of the large scale riots in England and other parts of Europe for sure, but Im not aware of mass shootings over it.
My point is that the OP made a link and labled it "unbelievable" I say that since it happened in the Middle East its not "unbelievable" because over there shooting people over religious or political beliefs is a normal occurence, outside of Africa you cant name a region where its even remotely close to the scale that it is in the Middle Eastern Countries.
edmundfitzgerald
Posts: 4,306 ✭✭
Comments
It happened in the Middle East
<< <i>Is it really that unbelievable? How many riots have occurred in the US after a team wins or loses a big game? This behavior is not localized to any region of the world. >>
Except this wasn't where a bunch of drunk die hards flipped a couple cars or accidentally fell from a tree and killed themselves after their team won/lost a big game. In the original game, fans chased players and fans of the other team around with guns and knives, killing 73. Today, 30 plus were murdered and over 300 injured because of the sentencing for those prior murders. Oh, and they aren't done sentencing people from the original killings either. In the Vancouver hockey riots there were 0 deaths and 140 injuries. In Los Angeles (famous for its riots) in 2010 after the Lakers won the title there were 0 deaths, numerous injuries, and a dozen or so arrests.
<< <i>I was simply making the point that violence in relation to sporting events is not limited to the Middle East as was previously mentioned. And, as was mentioned in the story, the anniversary of the previous President being ousted was as much a factor as the sporting event itself. Egypt is still very much a nation in transition. >>
Please you can be an apoligist for the middle East all you want however it doesnt erase the fact that they are the most out of control extremists in their life and death decision making, the only difference with this event was they didnt use god to justify their thug mentality.
<< <i>I wasn't making apologies for anyone did I? I simply suggested that violence in relation to sports is not limited to any one region. >>
Wow I must have missed that memo . I must be extra stupid as I don't recall a lot of people being killed or put to death from a US game .
As a general rule , the correlation between intelligence and morals , or a lack there of , is a stronger indicator towards violence in games or society as a whole . ----- Sonny
<< <i>
<< <i>I wasn't making apologies for anyone did I? I simply suggested that violence in relation to sports is not limited to any one region. >>
Wow I must have missed that memo . I must be extra stupid as I don't recall a lot of people being killed or put to death from a US game .
As a general rule , the correlation between intelligence and morals , or a lack there of , is a stronger indicator towards violence in games or society as a whole . ----- Sonny >>
You don't recall a SF Giant fan being nearly put to death in Los Angeles a couple of years ago? You don't recall massive riots that took place in Vancouver when they lost the finals? Throw in the political upheaval that has taken place (which is the main culprit here - this was the second anniversary of the former dictator being ousted) and you have a recipe for this type of mayhem and destruction.
No deaths for any of these events . Nobody sentenced to death . Nobody rioting over the sentence .
Yep , you've made a strong case .
I'll stick with my original premise of low intelligence and / or low morals being the main driver . Not the ONLY driver , just the primary mechanism .---- Sonny
<< <i>I was simply making the point that violence in relation to sporting events is not limited to the Middle East as was previously mentioned. And, as was mentioned in the story, the anniversary of the previous President being ousted was as much a factor as the sporting event itself. Egypt is still very much a nation in transition. >>
You're confusing civil disobedience with mass murders and executions.
Just sayin'
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>Have you read any of the other posts ?
No deaths for any of these events . Nobody sentenced to death . Nobody rioting over the sentence .
Yep , you've made a strong case .
I'll stick with my original premise of low intelligence and / or low morals being the main driver . Not the ONLY driver , just the primary mechanism .---- Sonny >>
When it comes to soccer, the reason you see these kinds of riots and killings is because these games also have a political dimension to them. This is hard for us in the U.S. to understand, since virtually all of our sports rivalries stem from geopraphical factors, but it's the way many of these soccer rivalries are constructed. For example, the reason the Barcelona/Real Madrid rivalry is so fierce is because Franco's Fascists basically sacked Catalonia in the 1930's, and Real was the team that Franco passionately supported (both emotionally and financially). Ditto for a game like Celtic/Rangers in Glasgow, which is really just Catholics/Protestants with a ball and two goals.
Now, as for this Egyptian situation, I'm not really sure what happened. The big soccer derby in Egypt is Al-Ahly and Zamalek, and these riots sprang out of an Al-Ahly Al-Masry game, so I don't know how this got started. But I would guess that there were political underpinnings to this one as well.
While there's no doubt that U.S. sports fans are much better behaved than those in almost every other part of the world, I think a lot of that is due to the fact that we don't mix politics and sports. If we had matches taking place where one team was universally supported by a city's right-leaning populace, and another team supported by the left-leaning contingent, I bet we'd see far more of this kind of stuff (though perhaps not this bad) than we see currently.
<< <i>
<< <i>Have you read any of the other posts ?
No deaths for any of these events . Nobody sentenced to death . Nobody rioting over the sentence .
Yep , you've made a strong case .
I'll stick with my original premise of low intelligence and / or low morals being the main driver . Not the ONLY driver , just the primary mechanism .---- Sonny >>
When it comes to soccer, the reason you see these kinds of riots and killings is because these games also have a political dimension to them. This is hard for us in the U.S. to understand, since virtually all of our sports rivalries stem from geopraphical factors, but it's the way many of these soccer rivalries are constructed. For example, the reason the Barcelona/Real Madrid rivalry is so fierce is because Franco's Fascists basically sacked Catalonia in the 1950's, and Real was the team that Franco passionately supported (both emotionally and financially). Ditto for a game like Celtic/Rangers in Glasgow, which is really just Catholics/Protestants with a ball and two goals.
Now, as for this Egyptian situation, I'm not really sure what happened. The big soccer derby in Egypt is Al-Ahly and Zamalek, and these riots sprang out of an Al-Ahly Al-Masry game, so I don't know how this got started. But I would guess that there were political underpinnings to this one as well.
While there's no doubt that U.S. sports fans are much better behaved than those in almost every other part of the world, I think a lot of that is due to the fact that we don't mix politics and sports. If we had matches taking place where one team was universally supported by a city's right-leaning populace, and another team supported by the left-leaning contingent, I bet we'd see far more of this kind of stuff (though perhaps not this bad) than we see currently. >>
And that is completely understood, my point is that these killings are 100% related to the lunacy of the Middle East not the game of Soccer and its not "Unbelievable"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Have you read any of the other posts ?
No deaths for any of these events . Nobody sentenced to death . Nobody rioting over the sentence .
Yep , you've made a strong case .
I'll stick with my original premise of low intelligence and / or low morals being the main driver . Not the ONLY driver , just the primary mechanism .---- Sonny >>
When it comes to soccer, the reason you see these kinds of riots and killings is because these games also have a political dimension to them. This is hard for us in the U.S. to understand, since virtually all of our sports rivalries stem from geopraphical factors, but it's the way many of these soccer rivalries are constructed. For example, the reason the Barcelona/Real Madrid rivalry is so fierce is because Franco's Fascists basically sacked Catalonia in the 1950's, and Real was the team that Franco passionately supported (both emotionally and financially). Ditto for a game like Celtic/Rangers in Glasgow, which is really just Catholics/Protestants with a ball and two goals.
Now, as for this Egyptian situation, I'm not really sure what happened. The big soccer derby in Egypt is Al-Ahly and Zamalek, and these riots sprang out of an Al-Ahly Al-Masry game, so I don't know how this got started. But I would guess that there were political underpinnings to this one as well.
While there's no doubt that U.S. sports fans are much better behaved than those in almost every other part of the world, I think a lot of that is due to the fact that we don't mix politics and sports. If we had matches taking place where one team was universally supported by a city's right-leaning populace, and another team supported by the left-leaning contingent, I bet we'd see far more of this kind of stuff (though perhaps not this bad) than we see currently. >>
And that is completely understood, my point is that these killings are 100% related to the lunacy of the Middle East not the game of Soccer and its not "Unbelievable" >>
It isn't restricted to the Middle East. I agree that many of the Middle Eastern countries are screwed up, but when it comes to soccer nobody across the Atlantic has a monopoly on violent reactions to soccer. Look at what the Greeks did last year, or do some Internet searches on Partizan/Red Star in Serbia. Or just look at the 7,000 fan brawl that broke out on the field of a Celtic/Rangers game. You don't see the mass killings, but you definitely see the rest of it.
This is even true in England. For example, you can't just go up to the ticket booth and buy a ticket to an EPL game, because you might end up supporting the 'wrong' team and get the s**t kicked out of you. And most of the pubs, from what I understand, will not admit you if you're wearing a soccer jersey. So you see this kind of nonsense even in a fairly restrained country like England.
Egypt is a country embroiled in turmoil due to the regime change that happened a couple years ago, and that was the impetus for these killings. Not justifying it, or saying it's right, just trying to provide some context. As was noted elsewhere, the Middle East doesn't have exclusive rights to soccer violence and/or hooliganism.
Im well aware of the large scale riots in England and other parts of Europe for sure, but Im not aware of mass shootings over it.
My point is that the OP made a link and labled it "unbelievable" I say that since it happened in the Middle East its not "unbelievable" because over there shooting people over religious or political beliefs is a normal occurence, outside of Africa you cant name a region where its even remotely close to the scale that it is in the Middle Eastern Countries.