Englehard gold 2oz poured bar - how much should I pay?

Schultz24

Hello all,

I saw a poured 2oz englehard gold bar at a local coin shop. They were closing so I had to leave and couldn't find out what they wanted for it. I understand from my research that they are hard to find and demand a premium. What do you think it is worth on the open market? It is exactly like the one in the link. Thanks for any help you can give.

Schultz24

Gold bar

Justacommeman

I paid +$80 or +$85 over spot per ounce a little over a year ago.

MJ

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>I paid +$80 pr +$85 over spot per ounce a little over a year ago.

MJ >>




MJ, you done good at +$80 pr +$85 over.

I would like to add one of these 2 oz poured gold bars but ebay BIN prices are excessively optimistic.

pwrful4

I offered an AU saint and a BU AGE for one and couldn't get any takers if that tells you anything.

PerryHall

<< <i>I offered an AU saint and a BU AGE for one and couldn't get any takers if that tells you anything. >>



Personally, I'd rather have the Saint and the AGE.

derryb

spot +7%

Justacommeman

<< <i>spot +7% >>



I would pay more these days. MJ

TheBigB

<< <i>

<< <i>I offered an AU saint and a BU AGE for one and couldn't get any takers if that tells you anything. >>



Personally, I'd rather have the Saint and the AGE. >>



These are certainly more liquid, most dealers will not pay up for a collectable bar.

Justacommeman

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I offered an AU saint and a BU AGE for one and couldn't get any takers if that tells you anything. >>



Personally, I'd rather have the Saint and the AGE. >>



These are certainly more liquid, most dealers will not pay up for a collectable bar. >>



In general yes. However, if you know a specialist dealer then the point is moot. Know your escape routes.

Au Saints and BU AGE's. i own thiose as well but blah

MJ

derryb

really depends on whether your are a stacker or a collector.

Justacommeman

<< <i>really depends on whether your are a stacker or a collector. >>



You can be both. Mix it up. They are not mutually exclusive. When bought right these type of bars offer more upside and less downside in my opinion.

MJ

LukeMarshall

<< <i>

<< <i>really depends on whether your are a stacker or a collector. >>



You can be both. Mix it up. They are not mutually exclusive. When bought right these type of bars offer more upside and less downside in my opinion.

MJ >>



I'll tell you that if I had one, I would both stack and collect it

If I were the OP I wouldn't hesitate to purchace the bar if the shop keep said $100 over spot....

Schultz24

So here's the skinny. The bar is $75 over spot per ounce plus $197 in tax. The total is right at about $3725. That price seems borderline for me since you can buy two Ohio gold bullion bars for $3417 shipped. What say you? Is it still worth the extra premium? I can't find them anywhere and the one on the bay keeps going unsold for about $4500. Thoughts? Thanks again!

bronco2078

Sales tax? I'd pass right there He won't take cash?

Schultz24

That's the cash price, they said if you pay by cc it is another 3%. I haven't tried to haggle although I was a little irked by the tax as well

guitarwes

So really you're looking at $173.50 per oz. over spot after it's all said and done? Meh. Try to waive $3525 cash in front of them and tell them to fuggituhbout that stupid tax mess.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>So here's the skinny. The bar is $75 over spot per ounce plus $197 in tax. The total is right at about $3725. That price seems borderline for me since you can buy two Ohio gold bullion bars for $3417 shipped. What say you? Is it still worth the extra premium? I can't find them anywhere and the one on the bay keeps going unsold for about $4500. Thoughts? Thanks again! >>




In my State the sales tax would not apply. Sales tax should not apply for an interstate sale either.

If I could purchase a 2 oz poured gold Engelhard for $75 an ounce over I would purchase it instantly.

derryb

sellers are authorized to collect state taxes for in state transactions only. State taxes on out of state transactions are between the buyer and his home state. Bullion and coins are taxed differently in many states. Since OP is dealing with a local coin shop, any required state taxes aren't really negotiable.

It is important for bullion and coin buyers to know how their respective state taxes such sales, they may be exempt under the right circumstances. A review of the respective state's sales tax website can sometimes be enlightening.

Wingsrule

So really you're looking at $173.50 per oz. over spot after it's all said and done? Meh. Try to waive $3525 cash in front of them and tell them to fuggituhbout that stupid tax mess.

Perhaps that silly dealer is actually trying to do what he is required to do under the law?

PerryHall

<< <i>So really you're looking at $173.50 per oz. over spot after it's all said and done? Meh. Try to waive $3525 cash in front of them and tell them to fuggituhbout that stupid tax mess.

Perhaps that silly dealer is actually trying to do what he is required to do under the law? >>



When a dealer sells an expensive coin or bar and payment is made in cash with sales tax being collected, do you ever wonder how much of that sales tax actually goes to the state?

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>So really you're looking at $173.50 per oz. over spot after it's all said and done? Meh. Try to waive $3525 cash in front of them and tell them to fuggituhbout that stupid tax mess.

Perhaps that silly dealer is actually trying to do what he is required to do under the law? >>



When a dealer sells an expensive coin or bar and payment is made in cash with sales tax being collected, do you ever wonder how much of that sales tax actually goes to the state? >>


A very risky proposal.

(1) to cheat the state sales tax coffers would most likely require not reporting as income at both the state and federal level, exposing him to more risk.
(2) unless he knows the buyer, he doesn't know if he is being set up in a sting operation.
(2) "inventory" reported at the beginning and end of each year would have to be manipulated to hide the item unless sold in same year received.

To a successful businessman it's not worth the risk. The wrath of the tax man is not short lived and a door is opened to all prevous transactions and tax reporting, both sales tax and income tax, both state and federal. Prosecuting and publicizing tax cheats is high on their list. Fear is a powerful weapon, especially for the tax collector.

derryb

If the seller has a website, OP could make arrangements for an out of state, online purchase by a relative who just might also like the item. Seller would not be authorized to collect state sales tax for such a sale. Note that online buyers are supposed to report and pay state sales taxes to their home state on such transactions if the item is not specifically exempt from sales tax in their home state.

Schultz24

So the question is this: I actually live in a different state than where the bar is located. I don't think the seller has a website with actual items for sale on it, but legally could I let them know that I live out of state and have a relative in state pick it up? I do live out of state and would be paying for it, just having someone else pick it up. Thanks again

Wingsrule

Throw in an extra $25-30 and have them mail it to you registered. You would have your check as evidence that you paid.

silverman68

<< <i>So here's the skinny. The bar is $75 over spot per ounce plus $197 in tax. The total is right at about $3725. That price seems borderline for me since you can buy two Ohio gold bullion bars for $3417 shipped. What say you? Is it still worth the extra premium? I can't find them anywhere and the one on the bay keeps going unsold for about $4500. Thoughts? Thanks again! >>



PASS all the way!!!

derryb

<< <i>So the question is this: I actually live in a different state than where the bar is located. I don't think the seller has a website with actual items for sale on it, but legally could I let them know that I live out of state and have a relative in state pick it up? I do live out of state and would be paying for it, just having someone else pick it up. Thanks again >>


You will have to ask the seller. If it can be done, they would probably have to mail it out of state.

Schultz24

I made a mistake, I guess the one on the bay actually ended early since the item wasn't available anymore. I imagine that they found a buyer at that price or higher. Anyone else ever seen or bought one of these bars and have any more insight? Is there any sort of "price guide" or way to tell how old the bar is? Thanks again

Pokermandude

We had a thread about these type of bars not too long ago. I own a 5oz bar like this, but I really don't know for sure what kind of collector premium it could fetch.

Engelhard poured gold

guitarwes

<< <i>So really you're looking at $173.50 per oz. over spot after it's all said and done? Meh. Try to waive $3525 cash in front of them and tell them to fuggituhbout that stupid tax mess.

Perhaps that silly dealer is actually trying to do what he is required to do under the law? >>



Yes, the dealer is doing what he is supposed to. Though, for the buyer, getting the best price is always the key. If that means talking the dealer down to a certain price, so be it. That's up to the dealer to decide what he wants to sell it as and pay the appropiate taxes after the sale if required by law.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is, if bought for $3525, the buyer would actually be paying for the bar and tax.......not the bar, tax, AND premium over spot. The dealer will have to pay regardless. Just trying to get the buyer a better deal with a negotiating tactic.

Schultz24

Here is a pic of the actual bar. Anyone see any problems? It looks a bit like it was cleaned or rubbed with a cloth and has "scuff marks". Not sure if that is any problem. Anything else I should ask the dealer? He sent me another picture of it on a scale and it is exactly 2.000 ozt. He also said he rub tested it when he got it. Any more insight would be appreciated to help me make a decision on it. It is just a bit of money for me, but it seems like it would be worth the premium which would be about $90 over spot shipped with insurance. Thanks again

CaptHenway

Looks OK to me.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

It is a bit scuffed up but otherwise looks fine.

I believe the price offered is reasonable. If I found one at that price at a LCS I would purchase it in short order.

If you want it snap it up before someone else does.

Pokermandude

Looks fine. Pure gold is soft and the bar has been around for quite some time, so it is bound to have a bunch of abrasions like that.

If you have the funds and are going to buy 2 oz of gold anyway, just take the plunge and get this poured bar before it is gone. The tiny bit higher premium is pretty negligible compared to other forms of .999 gold.