Genuine - UNC Details (91 - Questionable Color) :(

CoinBuyer12 · January 16, 2013 11:06AM

I purchased a 1887 Morgan Dollar from a guy I know, who deals in gold and silver. He buys entire collections sometimes.

Anyway, I submitted the coin to PCGS and in the meantime I waited for other experts to chime in on the grade. All of them said between MS62 and MS64. None of them questioned the toning.

The coin itself had been in an estate. Untouched for at least 90 years.

The coin came back as code 91.

I can't see how this coin is A/T. No one else I have showed it to can either.

The coin has not yet left the PCGS shipping department. I'm wondering if I should call them up, and ask to have it redone, so I don't have to ship it back, or just live with it.

If you have evidence to claim it's A/T, please provide me with it. I am really baffled as to how this earned a code 91.

lcoopie · January 16, 2013 11:09AM

perhaps it was the reverse?

CoinBuyer12 · January 16, 2013 11:11AM

Here is a shot of both sides, showing the obverse. The lighter areas between N and I of UNITED, and on the star to the left of the U in UNITED, is glare from the holder it was in.

Kaelasdad · January 16, 2013 11:18AM

I have had the same problem recently, it seems there is a great deal of reticence in the grading room when it comes to toned coins. I did actually call and ask that they review my recent order, I think others should as well. Its getting ridiculous that market acceptable, NT coins are not getting graded.

CoinBuyer12 · January 16, 2013 11:21AM

This dime I sent in came back as Au-55. I was actually suspicious of the color, and so were a few others.

Wabbit2313 · January 16, 2013 11:38AM

This is why everyone needs to start hoarding toned coins PCGS already graded. The witch doctors are getting so good, nothing will get slabbed. Also, what else do you do now that it can't make a slab........? Restore it!!

Buy those toners now!!!!

CoinBuyer12 · January 16, 2013 12:49PM

Here is PCGG"s photo of the morgan.

magikbilly · January 16, 2013 12:58PM

I wonder if the date/mm played a role.

Eric

CoinBuyer12 · January 16, 2013 1:04PM

What do you mean?

lkeigwin · January 16, 2013 1:09PM

Crack it and send it in again. Looks fine to me and I'll bet it grades.
Lance.

LindeDad · January 16, 2013 1:10PM

The problem might be the difference in the degree of the toning on the obverse and the almost terminal toning on the reverse.
Code 91 is not always meaning artificial toning but can mean not market acceptable toning.

CoinBuyer12 · January 16, 2013 1:14PM

I'm going to call PCGS in the morning and inform them I am not happy with the result. I don't really want to waste the funds to have this regraded unless they can do it at their facility, before shipping it back to me. If they can't do that, then it's settled. Any more money spent on this coin, will be an utter waste.

lkeigwin · January 16, 2013 1:23PM

I'll bet that's futile. PCGS won't say "oh wait, you're right.

Accept the opinion and either try again or give up.
Lance.

stealer · January 16, 2013 1:24PM

<< I'll bet that's futile. PCGS won't say "oh wait, you're right.

Accept the opinion and either try again or give up.
Lance. >>

I think they are willing to look at one coin in the submission again. If you are correct, they will look at more upon request.

Wolf359 · January 16, 2013 1:46PM

Is that coin really worth grading again? It's a $75 coin in MS64. You've already spent one grading fee + shipping. Those common dates, unless the coin looks MS65 or better just usually is not worth it.

If you need help with Morgan varieties, send me a PM (Private Message). Thanks

halfhunter · January 16, 2013 1:59PM

<< The problem might be the difference in the degree of the toning on the obverse and the almost terminal toning on the reverse.
Code 91 is not always meaning artificial toning but can mean not market acceptable toning. >>

I was wondering about this also . . . I mean how does a coin get the kind of target toning that generally comes from spending years in an album only on one side?
Then I conjectured that it could have been in a crimped end paper roll for years. Were dollar rolls ever rolled with crimped ends? All the EOR toned dollars that I have seen have come from folded wrapper ends.

But however it happened, the toning looks natural to me.

HH

CoinBuyer12 · January 16, 2013 2:08PM

I spoke to my friend tonight. He said it was stored in a whitman album.

lkeigwin · January 16, 2013 2:13PM

<< 

<< I'll bet that's futile. PCGS won't say "oh wait, you're right.

Accept the opinion and either try again or give up.
Lance. >>

I think they are willing to look at one coin in the submission again. If you are correct, they will look at more upon request. >>

Yes. They will recheck it. But a change of mind will not come because the owner is upset. PCGS will have to see something it missed, or the grader/finalizer will have to admit a judgment error.

It has happened, I'm sure. I'll bet it's a very low percentage.
Lance.

CoinBuyer12 · January 17, 2013 2:16AM

Update:

I called PCGS this morning. I explained to them that the coin had been in a Whitman folder for the past 30-40 years. This would account for the amount of single-sided toning.

As a 1 time courtesy, they are going to hold the submission, and have a grader take another look at the Morgan. They could not promise me it would grade, but to me, it's better then having to resubmit it, which I would not of done due to cost.

Constantine · January 17, 2013 2:39AM

<< Update:

I called PCGS this morning. I explained to them that the coin had been in a Whitman folder for the past 30-40 years. This would account for the amount of single-sided toning.

As a 1 time courtesy, they are going to hold the submission, and have a grader take another look at the Morgan. They could not promise me it would grade, but to me, it's better then having to resubmit it, which I would not of done due to cost. >>

With all respect, PCGS does not care nor should care about a person's claim to where a coin was stored or handled. That is all irrelevant because it cannot be proven. The coin must stand on it's own.

BryceM · January 17, 2013 2:48AM

<< The problem might be the difference in the degree of the toning on the obverse and the almost terminal toning on the reverse.
Code 91 is not always meaning artificial toning but can mean not market acceptable toning. >>

This!

I love nice toning, which is what this Morgan might have had 40 or 50 years earlier. This is a bit too dark for my taste, but others might disagree.

Unknown · January 17, 2013 2:49AM

This content has been removed.

crypto79 · January 17, 2013 2:53AM

If your grade isn't legit: you must resubmit.

CoinBuyer12 · January 17, 2013 4:26AM

To add insult to the injury, here is a cleanly graded Morgan with very similar toning on the obverse.

ColonelKlinck · January 17, 2013 5:21AM

Maybe if both sides were toned it would have passed muster; like this one......

CoinZip · January 17, 2013 5:36AM

It looks more like "Shotgun Roll Toning" to me, which would explain why the obverse is almost tone free

Tiny · January 17, 2013 5:58AM

I am not sure what PCGS looks for in a toned coin and what makes them give out the dreaded Code 91
but I sent 10 ASEs to them 2 years ago and everyone graded and then I sent 15 more last year and they
all came back Code 91 . Now the second batch looked just same as the first and also came out of a Dansco
holder but they wouldn't grade them.

I'm affraid to send this one in and even more after reading the OP.

coastaljerseyguy · January 17, 2013 8:53AM

I think an 81 S in a Redfield holder is worth more than even an MS61 in a PCGS holder. I think the OP's coin is NT all the way, however it is getting very close to environmental damage or whatever they would give for when toning is turning black.

The 91 is a bummer, hope it works out in your favor

Genuine - UNC Details (91 - Questionable Color) :(

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