1857-s 20$ PCGS MS63 analysis help! (bring on the gold guys!)

Vbowling299

Hi all,
I just happened to run across this coin on the collectors corner.
Lately I have been working on learning more about some of the
series i like and practicing grading some in person and some from photos when i stumbled upon this piece.
It appears very nice for the grade and was curious of what everyone here thinks and hopefully some of the gold people can chime in!

1.) Is this just an above average piece for the grade? only Average?
2.) If you collected in this series would this be a coin you would buy?
3.) Rate the coin for strike and eye appeal, and any other factors you can think of!

I hope this to be a good learning experience!

Disclaimer i have no ties to this coin or the seller, just looking to learn a bit from it!
If anyone can help with the link i would appreciate it!

http://www.collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=10548476

ajman

Is this the one you're talking about? If so it looks like a gorgeous coin, albeit a lot out of my price range.

Vbowling299

yes that one! Thanks ajman!

crypto79

I am not so sure if shipwreck coins are a good area for investment/collecting speculation purchases. Personally, I would move on to a more mainstream area of the market I knew better.

roadrunner

Doesn't seem that much nicer than many 63's whether they be type 1's or type 3's. An MS63 1857-s seems out of the ordinary since most appear to be MS64 or MS65.
But if I had $8K to $9K to spend for a 63, I'd get a little bit more cash and step up to a 64. There are thousands of choice/gem 1857-s twenties out there.
While it is a coin needed for a complete choice unc gold type set, there certainly aren't 2,000 people currently building them. I can think of many better values in $20 Libs
for $9K where the pops are very low - there are many low pop type 3's in MS64 and MS65 to fit the bill. To me the 57-s coins are a common type coin. It's the only
date of the Type 1's you can find this cheap in choice/gem grades. It will carry this type coin value going forward. There are enough of these out there that they are
almost a generic gold type coin...though an expensive one. Probably slightly better than average 63's which often have heavier marks or some spotting.

The fact that the reverse is of MS65 quality plays almost no role in the overall value of the coin. These are graded by the obverse since over 90-95% of the time the reverses
are nicer. I've never heard of McCain numismatics. The ad is from May 2012. You can see dozens/hundreds of these in various grades on the Heritage Archives. There you can
easily compare quality, strike, price, and grade for all the specimens auctioned.

RYK

Few points:

1. These are readily available. At Heritage lot viewing, I saw every grade from 55-65 or 66, with multiple examples of some grades.
2. Many of these have turned in their holders and have needed to be reconserved. Buy one that has not turned...or has been retreated.
3. I chose to buy at the 58 level. My coin has the initial flash of a 63, but upon close inspection, there is slight rub and friction in the fields. It cost me about half the price of a 63.
4. One cannot tell from the photo whether this coin (or others) is naughty or nice. What separates the good, from the bad and ugly is too nuanced to detect in a photo, unless it is an obvious outlier. What I mean is that I have seen photos of these that looked good, and when I got the coin in my hand, I did not like it as much. (You could probably say that about anything!)



5. I recommend sticking with the 57-S $20. Some of the other similar dates (55-S and 56-S) have become overpriced for being slightly less common (IMO).
6. Finally, if you see an oddball date like the 51-O $20, let me know immediately, so that I can safely take it off the market to prevent others from the trap of owning it.

roadrunner

That is one heck of a nice AU59 RYK. I suspect if that were a type 3 there'd be no way it could come back any lower than MS61.
If there's rub/friction on that coin it didn't come from circulation. 99.9% full field luster is hard to beat. I can see a little field scuffing off the
lower bust. But with nothing at all in the center of the left and right obv fields, I'd be hard pressed not to call that coin unc. Very nice. When I first
saw the pic of that I assumed it was a slightly banged 62/63 and went down to the 2nd photo looking for your AU58 1857-s. Hmmm, that's a 51-0.

lkeigwin

Do you generally assume that MS '57-S DE's are SS Central America recoveries? I know the great majority of the hoard were 1857-S and mostly in uncirculated condition.
Lance.

RYK

<< <i>Do you generally assume that MS '57-S DE's are SS Central America recoveries? I know the great majority of the hoard were 1857-S and mostly in uncirculated condition.
Lance. >>


Prior to the SSCA discovery, 1857-S $20's were considered to be rare in uncirculated condition (reference Akers). There were over 5,000 1857-S $20's in the SSCA discovery, and most were in the 55-65 range. I do see AU (and lower) coins on the market that do not appear to be from the SSCA, but when you see an MS piece, it almost always is from the SSCA.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>Do you generally assume that MS '57-S DE's are SS Central America recoveries? I know the great majority of the hoard were 1857-S and mostly in uncirculated condition.
Lance. >>


Prior to the SSCA discovery, 1857-S $20's were considered to be rare in uncirculated condition (reference Akers). There were over 5,000 1857-S $20's in the SSCA discovery, and most were in the 55-65 range. I do see AU (and lower) coins on the market that do not appear to be from the SSCA, but when you see an MS piece, it almost always is from the SSCA. >>



SSCA coins don't look like dirty original coins. They all look dipped/cleaned from their conservation and some develop spotting within their slabs over time.

DaveG

Personally, I prefer coins that haven't been salvaged and subsequently "processed".

I don't want to have to worry about the coin turning in the holder.