There's a 1961-D in this following thread about halfway down the page. I believe it's been sent in a number of times failing to receive the FS designation and it's easy to see that there are no marks or missing lines in the steps. it makes you scratch your head and ask why?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>There's a 1961-D in this following thread about halfway down the page. It makes you scratch your head and ask why? >>
It does make ya scratch your head Leo, thats why I have abstained from sending in stuff, I would accept that 61D in that thread as a FS coin ???????, I have a 58P that is sharp and in focus and not struck from a worn out die that is an MS64FS but its a little dark but full of luster???? IMO should be an MS66FS????????????Go figure
Leo, Quality And Strike does Count on these Jeffersons
<< <i>"<< The most famous is the one and only 1960-D in MS64FS that PCGS paid around $10,000 to buy back from myself and JHF. >>
I wonder what became of that coin. Isn't it possibly the closest thing to a full step for that date? Does a coin like that have any special value even without FS on the label?"
First, for those of you who do not recall, this 60-D nickel sold for about $32,000 the first time it was auctioned off at Bowers (heavily reserved I might add). One of the magazines (Coins or Coinage?) after the sale hailed it on its front cover as essentially the greatest Jefferson nickel in the world. All the while, I had to tell JHF to pass on buying it at the auction (even though it would have finished his entire 1938-1964 Jefferson collection in FS) despite being graded by PCGS, because it was not Full Step in my opinion. Well, a couple years later (thereabouts), the owner of the coin decided to reauction it at no reserve (again) with Bowers. This time JHF and myself were determined to win it on the cheap so that PCGS could comfortably remove it from the FS holder and if they chose not to, JHF was content with simply burying the coin so it would never see the light of day again. We won it at auction for around $10,000 this time around (about 30 cents on the dollar compared to its first auction appearance). We gave it to DH and asked him to remove it from the pop reports. DH showed it to his graders ... every single one of them. By a vote of something like 11-5 (it could have been 12-6 ... I just remember it was around a 2/3 to 1/3 decision) it was determined the nickel was NOT full step. DH offered JHF everything he paid for the coin at auction minus $100 if JHF wanted to keep the MS64 coin without the FS designation. JHF obviously opted for that choice and I believe when I was visiting with JHF in Asia last year he told me that recently he had found the 1960-D nickel in the PCGS-MS64 holder in one of his bank vaults and greatly enjoyed looking at the roughly 4 1/2 stepper.
I certainly think it is possibly the nicest near FS example of a 1960-D nickel known and obviously worth substantially more than $100 at this point.
My memory is not 100% on coin stories going back nearly a decade (maybe 98%) so feel free to check the 1960-D story in full through a search of probably the registry forum.
Wondercoin >>
Ask High Desert if he would like reuniting Bern Nagengast's 1960-D with his 1961-D PCGS MS65FS. They both originated from Bern's #1 Jefferson nickel collection.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
"Ask High Desert if he would like reuniting Bern Nagengast's 1960-D with his 1961-D PCGS MS65FS. They both originated from Bern's #1 Jefferson nickel collection."
First off, I love Bern's 1961-D Jefferson nickel MS65FS, which I bought out of the Bowers' sale a number of years ago for JHF. It is truly a highlight now in HD's Jefferson nickel collection. I, in fact, spoke of the 1960-D nickel with HD just a couple weeks ago. I reminded him that I thought the coin resides in a bank vault in Asia with JHF and HD was fine for now with enjoying his MS66 (non-FS) coin. It is not out of the question that the next time I am visiting JHF in Asia that I might be able to bring the 60-D back to the states, but, more likely it will sit out in Asia for a very, very long time to come. Remember, JHF made it clear that when he bought the coin out of the second Bowers (re)sale in order to remove it from the pop reports as a FS coin that his intentions were to bury it in a bank vault for the coin to not see the light of day. He is keeping good on that promise! Obviously, the only thing that might change that is if HD really wanted the coin for his set; a request I suspect JHF would try to accommodate.
I am slightly surprised the undergrade coin sold so strongly yesterday in the Heritage sale, but that just makes HD's MS65FS that much more valuable I suppose.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I have a very strong feeling whoever just paid this kind of money is, in all likelihood, a very astute collector who would not want to be stuck with a coin that does not show 5 complete uninterrupted steps. I would not be surprised at all if this coin was downgraded by the new owner to take it off the market. A lesson well learned by many concerning a 1960-D coin that was once graded FS.
But on the other hand, an old man with one crippled leg, blind in one eye, living under a bridge with only 10 cents in his pocket........could name a couple of people in the registry who would not hesitate for a second to put this coin into their sets based solely on the label. And it took nearly 6 years to resale? Come on people..........this coin is coming off the market!
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>"Ask High Desert if he would like reuniting Bern Nagengast's 1960-D with his 1961-D PCGS MS65FS. They both originated from Bern's #1 Jefferson nickel collection."
First off, I love Bern's 1961-D Jefferson nickel MS65FS, which I bought out of the Bowers' sale a number of years ago for JHF. It is truly a highlight now in HD's Jefferson nickel collection. I, in fact, spoke of the 1960-D nickel with HD just a couple weeks ago. I reminded him that I thought the coin resides in a bank vault in Asia with JHF and HD was fine for now with enjoying his MS66 (non-FS) coin. It is not out of the question that the next time I am visiting JHF in Asia that I might be able to bring the 60-D back to the states, but, more likely it will sit out in Asia for a very, very long time to come. Remember, JHF made it clear that when he bought the coin out of the second Bowers (re)sale in order to remove it from the pop reports as a FS coin that his intentions were to bury it in a bank vault for the coin to not see the light of day. He is keeping good on that promise! Obviously, the only thing that might change that is if HD really wanted the coin for his set; a request I suspect JHF would try to accommodate.
I am slightly surprised the undergrade coin sold so strongly yesterday in the Heritage sale, but that just makes HD's MS65FS that much more valuable I suppose.
Wondercoin >>
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
That is a great coin and deserves a value greater then the one that just sold! This shows you what some folks will pay for labels. If all of those poorly graded coins get tucked away never to see the light of day again......I don't have a problem with that!
Oh, by-the-way, no offence taken on your earlier comment.
Hello Ed,,, I've been in search for a 1960 Denver for quite sometime, and I've came to the conclusion that trying to find that elusive fullstep in this year is almost impossible . You mentioned Ed, on Value in this year?
I thought to myself' even if I found one that might get certified, I wouldn't be able to afford the price the seller would be asking anyway for it, so I went for the highest grade in this year at MS-67> at present, I think there's only around (16) certified.
That what's really special for the Jefferson Series', like this one, there is a few more dates also, that's incredibly rare in a full fullstep count certified. I did get lucky an have a few like this, take the 1958 MS65-FS Philly,,,ok' you get the picture.
You have a great day my friend, Jim Berline Ngc Registry 1938 to 1964 short set/
judging by the picture the OP coin just isn't Full Steps according to the criteria set forth by PCGS in their very own grading guide. perhaps it looks different in-hand.
keets, agree! That would mean there are "no" true 1960-D Full Steppers! Someone paid some good money for a nice 1960-D, but paid a lot more for the plastic!
It's an undocumented policy at both major services that a coin which is almost or actually NONEXISTENT in some designation like FBL or full step -- when a coin comes along that is LITERALLY 1 in a million in terms of strike for the date and mint - it will be given the designation -- but at a much lower grade -- based on the "market grading" theory that a grade is a PRICE POINT -- rather than a requirement that a coin either does or does not meet some standard.
It's just the natural extension of the "who cares" grading standard for early coins as documented in the official PCGS grading guide.
By the way, I find this philosophy more practical in the real world rather than "technical" grading --- but the services need to disclose what they are doing. It can leave costly financial obligations when a company uses terms like full step or first strike in some different way than their customers think those terms are used.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
Comments
I believe it's been sent in a number of times failing to receive the FS designation and it's easy to
see that there are no marks or missing lines in the steps. it makes you scratch your head and ask why?
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
How many times have you sent your coin in for an FS designation? And email me when you get a chance on a 43-P PCGS MS67FS.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>There's a 1961-D in this following thread about halfway down the page.
It makes you scratch your head and ask why? >>
It does make ya scratch your head Leo, thats why I have abstained from sending in stuff, I would
accept that 61D in that thread as a FS coin ???????, I have a 58P that is sharp and in focus and not
struck from a worn out die that is an MS64FS but its a little dark but full of luster???? IMO should be
an MS66FS????????????Go figure
Leo, Quality And Strike does Count on these Jeffersons
Steve
<< <i>"<< The most famous is the one and only 1960-D in MS64FS that PCGS paid around $10,000 to buy back from myself and JHF. >>
I wonder what became of that coin.
Isn't it possibly the closest thing to a full step for that date?
Does a coin like that have any special value even without FS on the label?"
First, for those of you who do not recall, this 60-D nickel sold for about $32,000 the first time it was auctioned off at Bowers (heavily reserved I might add). One of the magazines (Coins or Coinage?) after the sale hailed it on its front cover as essentially the greatest Jefferson nickel in the world. All the while, I had to tell JHF to pass on buying it at the auction (even though it would have finished his entire 1938-1964 Jefferson collection in FS) despite being graded by PCGS, because it was not Full Step in my opinion. Well, a couple years later (thereabouts), the owner of the coin decided to reauction it at no reserve (again) with Bowers. This time JHF and myself were determined to win it on the cheap so that PCGS could comfortably remove it from the FS holder and if they chose not to, JHF was content with simply burying the coin so it would never see the light of day again. We won it at auction for around $10,000 this time around (about 30 cents on the dollar compared to its first auction appearance). We gave it to DH and asked him to remove it from the pop reports. DH showed it to his graders ... every single one of them. By a vote of something like 11-5 (it could have been 12-6 ... I just remember it was around a 2/3 to 1/3 decision) it was determined the nickel was NOT full step. DH offered JHF everything he paid for the coin at auction minus $100 if JHF wanted to keep the MS64 coin without the FS designation. JHF obviously opted for that choice and I believe when I was visiting with JHF in Asia last year he told me that recently he had found the 1960-D nickel in the PCGS-MS64 holder in one of his bank vaults and greatly enjoyed looking at the roughly 4 1/2 stepper.
I certainly think it is possibly the nicest near FS example of a 1960-D nickel known and obviously worth substantially more than $100 at this point.
My memory is not 100% on coin stories going back nearly a decade (maybe 98%) so feel free to check the 1960-D story in full through a search of probably the registry forum.
Wondercoin >>
Ask High Desert if he would like reuniting Bern Nagengast's 1960-D with his 1961-D PCGS MS65FS. They both originated from Bern's #1 Jefferson nickel collection.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
First off, I love Bern's 1961-D Jefferson nickel MS65FS, which I bought out of the Bowers' sale a number of years ago for JHF. It is truly a highlight now in HD's Jefferson nickel collection. I, in fact, spoke of the 1960-D nickel with HD just a couple weeks ago. I reminded him that I thought the coin resides in a bank vault in Asia with JHF and HD was fine for now with enjoying his MS66 (non-FS) coin. It is not out of the question that the next time I am visiting JHF in Asia that I might be able to bring the 60-D back to the states, but, more likely it will sit out in Asia for a very, very long time to come. Remember, JHF made it clear that when he bought the coin out of the second Bowers (re)sale in order to remove it from the pop reports as a FS coin that his intentions were to bury it in a bank vault for the coin to not see the light of day. He is keeping good on that promise! Obviously, the only thing that might change that is if HD really wanted the coin for his set; a request I suspect JHF would try to accommodate.
I am slightly surprised the undergrade coin sold so strongly yesterday in the Heritage sale, but that just makes HD's MS65FS that much more valuable I suppose.
Wondercoin
<< <i>I think FS criteria should be loosened up some on tougher dates especially as it concerns
"bridging". >>
This makes no sense. The criteria should be the same. It's FS or not.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>$11,162 with juice. >>
I have a very strong feeling whoever just paid this kind of money is, in all likelihood, a very astute collector who would not want to be stuck with a coin that does not show 5 complete uninterrupted steps. I would not be surprised at all if this coin was downgraded by the new owner to take it off the market. A lesson well learned by many concerning a 1960-D coin that was once graded FS.
But on the other hand, an old man with one crippled leg, blind in one eye, living under a bridge with only 10 cents in his pocket........could name a couple of people in the registry who would not hesitate for a second to put this coin into their sets based solely on the label. And it took nearly 6 years to resale? Come on people..........this coin is coming off the market!
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>"Ask High Desert if he would like reuniting Bern Nagengast's 1960-D with his 1961-D PCGS MS65FS. They both originated from Bern's #1 Jefferson nickel collection."
First off, I love Bern's 1961-D Jefferson nickel MS65FS, which I bought out of the Bowers' sale a number of years ago for JHF. It is truly a highlight now in HD's Jefferson nickel collection. I, in fact, spoke of the 1960-D nickel with HD just a couple weeks ago. I reminded him that I thought the coin resides in a bank vault in Asia with JHF and HD was fine for now with enjoying his MS66 (non-FS) coin. It is not out of the question that the next time I am visiting JHF in Asia that I might be able to bring the 60-D back to the states, but, more likely it will sit out in Asia for a very, very long time to come. Remember, JHF made it clear that when he bought the coin out of the second Bowers (re)sale in order to remove it from the pop reports as a FS coin that his intentions were to bury it in a bank vault for the coin to not see the light of day. He is keeping good on that promise! Obviously, the only thing that might change that is if HD really wanted the coin for his set; a request I suspect JHF would try to accommodate.
I am slightly surprised the undergrade coin sold so strongly yesterday in the Heritage sale, but that just makes HD's MS65FS that much more valuable I suppose.
Wondercoin >>
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
That is a great coin and deserves a value greater then the one that just sold! This shows you what some folks will pay for labels. If all of those poorly graded coins get tucked away never to see the light of day again......I don't have a problem with that!
Oh, by-the-way, no offence taken on your earlier comment.
Hello Ed,,, I've been in search for a 1960 Denver for quite sometime, and I've came to the conclusion that trying to find that elusive
fullstep in this year is almost impossible . You mentioned Ed, on Value in this year?
I thought to myself' even if I found one that might get certified, I wouldn't be able to afford the price the seller would be asking
anyway for it, so I went for the highest grade in this year at MS-67> at present, I think there's only around (16) certified.
That what's really special for the Jefferson Series', like this one, there is a few more dates also, that's incredibly rare in a full fullstep
count certified. I did get lucky an have a few like this, take the 1958 MS65-FS Philly,,,ok' you get the picture.
You have a great day my friend, Jim Berline Ngc Registry 1938 to 1964 short set/
It's just the natural extension of the "who cares" grading standard for early coins as documented in the official PCGS grading guide.
By the way, I find this philosophy more practical in the real world rather than "technical" grading --- but the services need to disclose what they are doing.
It can leave costly financial obligations when a company uses terms like full step or first strike in some different way than their customers think those terms
are used.