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If You Owned a 1943 Copper Cent, Would You Have It Tested?
Coinosaurus
Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
Delicate territory here. We have on the market a 1943 cent of previously unknown composition (91.7% copper). Is it worth more or less than a 1943 cent struck on a 1942 cent bronze planchet (95% copper)?
I'd be a little bit nervous if I already owned a 1943 copper cent. Until you have it tested, you are unsure whether it is struck on a 1942 cent planchet, or something else.
I'd be a little bit nervous if I already owned a 1943 copper cent. Until you have it tested, you are unsure whether it is struck on a 1942 cent planchet, or something else.
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bob
If You Owned a 1943 Copper Cent, Would You Have It Tested?
...i believe it would be absolutely stupid NOT TO!!
To state that only the ones struck on leftover planchets have value is just silly IMO. The coin in Stacks Bowers should be worth just as much as the others should be worth - a few hundred thousand.
Of course this coin is probably one of the only cases in numismatics where being struck on a foriegn planchet instead of a last-year's planchet would be considered a negative.
And if I were considering buying it as a legitimate '43 copper for all the money, you can bet that I would insist on a nondestructive metallurgical analysis before finalizing anything.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
TD
Tradedollarnut - How can you say these were never million dollar coins when Legend bought and sold a 1943 S and a 1943 D for your clients collection at
$1,000,000 and $ 1,700,000 ? Now you say the one in the Stacks Bowers auction is worth a few hundred thousand dollars ? ? ?
None of the other 1943 copper cents were ever tested beyond a kinder garten test involving a magnet.
PCGS is not sure where the planchet for the coin in the present auction originated nor is Stacks Bowers. I guess you are saying this coin
Is worth a few hundred thousand dollars because Laura will buy it for your/her client.
I do not know of anyone other than this client of yours who collects 1943 copper cents. So you set the price.
I would be willing to make a wager this coin does not bring a few hundred grand since you are a gambling man.
Stewart
<< <i>Tradedollarnut - How can you say these were never million dollar coins when Legend bought and sold a 1943 S and a 1943 D for your clients collection at
$1,000,000 and $ 1,700,000 ? Now you say the one in the Stacks Bowers auction is worth a few hundred thousand dollars ? ? ?
None of the other 1943 copper cents were ever tested beyond a kinder garten test involving a magnet.
PCGS is not sure where the planchet for the coin in the present auction originated nor is Stacks Bowers. I guess you are saying this coin
Is worth a few hundred thousand dollars because Laura will buy it for your/her client.
I do not know of anyone other than this client of yours who collects 1943 copper cents. So you set the price.
I would be willing to make a wager this coin does not bring a few hundred grand since you are a gambling man.
Stewart >>
How can I say it? Very easily since it's just my opinion. I know million dollar coins and these are head scratchers at that level.
Ok - I will bet you one dollar it goes for $200k+ or does not sell. As far as PCGS not being sure where the planchet came from - show me even ONE copper 1943 cent where they are certain from where the planchet came.
OK we have a bet !
Stewart
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AtqXN9yPBzhpvP3TA
and this one passed the look in side test. All was A ok with it "Passed".
Or they can use this one that does nada to the coin but that's no fun.
Hoard the keys.
With regard to that 1943 in the Stacks auction, the mettallic analysis, coupled with the striking weakness tells me a lot. I am pretty sure that coin is a foreign planchet error. The strike weaknesses look almost exactly the same as what you see when Lincoln cents are erroneously struck on dime planchets. So, I am pretty sure that coin was struck on a foreign planchet that was slightly smaller diameter than a cent.
The mettallic analysis is critically important.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
why should a Copper 1943 Cent only be worth a few hundred thousand dollars while a 1913 Liberty Nickel is at several million and climbing??
TDN is betting it goes for 200K + and Stewart is betting it goes for less?? I think he got snookered.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Seems to me that if the 1942 Cent in Aluminum brought less than 200K, the 1943 on "unknown bronze planchet" is far from a lock at 200K. I know that I wouldn't buy it, although I recognize that it could bring a lot more if two bidders like it enough. >>
Really? Does the 1942 cent in aluminum have 50 years of hype and marketing behind it?
<< <i>It's RED. It's a 1943. It's a RED 1943. That pretty well says it ALL. I hope we get to see it as an avatar someday! (wink, wink) >>
Exactly. someone gets it. It's a RED copper 1943. Who friggen cares if the zinc is a few % too high. It's RED friggen copper....
<< <i>
<< <i>It's RED. It's a 1943. It's a RED 1943. That pretty well says it ALL. I hope we get to see it as an avatar someday! (wink, wink) >>
Exactly. someone gets it. It's a RED copper 1943. Who friggen cares if the zinc is a few % too high. It's RED friggen copper.... >>
The problem is, it doesn't quite fit the narrative, and story is what sells coins like 1804 dollars and 1913 nickels. Lots of other equally rare US coins that don't sell for as much. Narrative says it was supposed to be a leftover 1942 planchet used by accident - that is hard to confirm here. Yes, it is a red 1943, and quite desirable as such. But I think even more desirable if the composition matched the other 1943 coppers.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's RED. It's a 1943. It's a RED 1943. That pretty well says it ALL. I hope we get to see it as an avatar someday! (wink, wink) >>
Exactly. someone gets it. It's a RED copper 1943. Who friggen cares if the zinc is a few % too high. It's RED friggen copper.... >>
The problem is, it doesn't quite fit the narrative, and story is what sells coins like 1804 dollars and 1913 nickels. Lots of other equally rare US coins that don't sell for as much. Narrative says it was supposed to be a leftover 1942 planchet used by accident - that is hard to confirm here. Yes, it is a red 1943, and quite desirable as such. But I think even more desirable if the composition matched the other 1943 coppers. >>
How much do the 1804 $1 restrikes sell for?
<< <i>How much do the 1804 $1 restrikes sell for?
Understand that there was already a lot of numismatic history built in to the 1804 before Newman/Bressett finally told the whole story in the 1960s. Suppose we had some new finding about a 1913 nickel today? It wouldn't change much, Mehl's promotion is captured in the public mindshare and that is not changing.
No Reserve
1913 Liberty Nickel, 1943 Coppers - It's the Novelty...
How can you say these were never million dollar coins when Legend bought and sold a 1943 S and a 1943 D for your clients collection at $1,000,000 and $1,700,000 ?
Doesn't mean they are worth that much. When you have moon money and you want something - you're going to get it - there's a price for everything!
In terms of testing - even the modern-day testing of these or any planchet barely scratches the surface (no pun) of the coin - It does NOT go through the entire planchet. My opinion on this coin is that it IS a legitimate copper planchet, strike is similar to some of the others (but not exact), and it looks like a darn red U.S. cent to me.
$200,000+?? Only takes two bidders...
The weak strike does not condemn the piece, nor necessarily mean that an unknown foreign planchet was used. As I have said elsewhere, if the planchet had remained in the press from an earlier coinage run and it was the first coin struck as the press was starting up, you could get a less than full strike.
I would still like to see additional testing done of the composition.
TD
I would not be surprised if this red 1943 does not break 100 K
Stewart
<< <i>Agreed - and the fact this cent looks like copper, smells like copper and is in fact mostly copper IMO trumphs the fact that they don't know what exactly it is. No, it won't bring the $1.5M that a no brainer example would bring, but it will bring a pretty penny! >>
No dog in this fight, but this new '43 copper cent has a few odd things that concern... the composition analysis one, but why the weak strike, particularly the rims? Is that eyelid normal for a 1943 cent? and what's with the story of this one "suddenly appearing" and also being red? These days, with folks these days able to get ahold of a real surplus mint press, make their own dies, and coin and re-coin very real looking fakes, it might pay to be extra cautious... does anyone know what this new cent weighs?
If I owned one, yes I'd have it tested backwards and forwards.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>Agreed - and the fact this cent looks like copper, smells like copper and is in fact mostly copper IMO trumphs the fact that they don't know what exactly it is. No, it won't bring the $1.5M that a no brainer example would bring, but it will bring a pretty penny! >>
No dog in this fight, but this new '43 copper cent has a few odd things that concern... the composition analysis one, but why the weak strike, particularly the rims? Is that eyelid normal for a 1943 cent? and what's with the story of this one "suddenly appearing" and also being red? These days, with folks these days able to get ahold of a real surplus mint press, make their own dies, and coin and re-coin very real looking fakes, it might pay to be extra cautious... does anyone know what this new cent weighs?
If I owned one, yes I'd have it tested backwards and forwards. >>
The weight is reported in the S-B link as 3.08 grams, which is within tolerance for a bronze cent.
Someone here is spending an inordinate amount of time commenting on a coin that they have no interest in...me thinks
Ahhhh, you've observed quite well, Grasshopper!!
OK we have a bet !
STEWART - Have you collected your dollar yet?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
He can buy a coin for $10,000,000 but he can not pay a dollar for a bet he lost !
Should I get Anton to collect my money ?
Stewart
I'm wondering if you would have taken the same bet at $100k or $150k. Guess we'll never know, but seems to me it went for a lot more than you expected.
I'm no rocket scientist, but that sounds like cause and effect.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>So what did happen? >>
Link
Final bid: $164,500
Of course since the coin went for about $165K, obviously it's still a valuable coin (to at least two bidders), but I would really be interested in hearing why they felt it was worth so much.