Is this seller unknowingly selling an original bank roll of 1909-S VDB cents?

SCDHunter

These rare rolls are getting scarcer ...

How does he know the 1909-S end coin does not have a VDB and the other end coin does not have a mintmark?

Not too bright, but I suspect a few suckers will be drawn in.

AUandAG

He has five rolls up for sale and all have key dates on the ends. BS.

bob

jmski52

That baby is nice & polished.

hchcoin

<< <i>He has five rolls up for sale and all have key dates on the ends. BS.

bob >>



I like your answer!

Sonorandesertrat

<< <i>He has five rolls up for sale and all have key dates on the ends. BS.

bob >>

milkcoin

<< <i>These rare rolls are getting scarcer ...

How does he know the 1909-S end coin does not have a VDB and the other end coin does not have a mintmark?

Not too bright, but I suspect a few suckers will be drawn in. >>



Another one of these fradulent eBay listings again.. I am so tired of reading about them. I predict the same outcome / result from every one posted and am never let down.

GrumpyEd

And what are the odds of having 2 rolls with the same end coins?


Another from feedback:



<< <i> Old Lincoln Wheat Penny BANK Roll 1909s & 1909 VDB *BU Red* Tails ** Rare Wrap** (#121041259940) >>

ebaybuyer

i dont collect lincolns but that S doesnt look right to me

joebb21

<< <i>i dont collect lincolns but that S doesnt look right to me >>



agreed

19Lyds

<< <i>How does he know the 1909-S end coin does not have a VDB and the other end coin does not have a mintmark?
>>

Because he put them together himself and if folks believe otherwise....................well, they deserve what they get. I expect that these rolls will do quite well.

Patches

The "s" to me looks crooked and small

PerryHall

<< <i>He has five rolls up for sale and all have key dates on the ends. BS.

bob >>



He's preying on the greedy and naive. Obviously, this is a put together roll.

PerryHall

It will be interesting to see what kind of feedback this seller gets.

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>Another one of these fradulent eBay listings again.. I am so tired of reading about them. I predict the same outcome / result from every one posted and am never let down. >>


haha. well said.
.
i am going to start campaigning much more vigilantly against these older roll listings. the legitimacy for these has gotta be lower than 1%, don't ya think?
.

RegistryCoin

Seller mentions: "The roll looks like it hasn't been open for a very long time..."
Is this a strong selling point?

derryb

Seller knows exactly what he is selling, each and every coin. This is why they are on ebay and not in holders. Look at his prior sales, he specializes in re-rolled coins. Chances are that he has been selling them for a long time under more than one ebay user ID.

rec78

Is this seller unknowingly selling an original bank roll of 1909-S VDB cents?

Why don't you buy it and find out?






<< <i>These rare rolls are getting scarcer ...

How does he know the 1909-S end coin does not have a VDB and the other end coin does not have a mintmark? He does - he most likely rolled it himself yesterday.

Not too bright, but I suspect a few suckers will be drawn in. >>



Looks like a scam plan all the way--notice his item location is United states---no city or even state.

Seller mentions: "The roll looks like it hasn't been open for a very long time..."
Is this a strong selling point?

YES if you believe the story-- it may look that way but it still may have been rolled by him yesterday.

Those kinds of wrappers were not available in 1909. So it was rolled at a much later date. (most likely 2012 or 2013 Even) JMO

Bob

astrorat

Is it fraud or just misleading? Certainly the seller appears to be betting on the imagination of his marks.

Seller states the roll "looks" like it hasn't been opened for a long time, not that it hasn't been opened for a long time (whatever "long" means). Use an old, pre-worn roll and it "looks" like it has not been opened for a long time.

Roll is "unsearched" ... unsearched by whom? Buy a bag of wheat cents, don't search through them, and use them as filler between the two known coins. Now you have an unsearched roll.

Nothing in the listing appears to be fraudulent, just very misleading.

Too bad somebody will likely get stuck with an overpriced 09-S and 09-VDB and little else.

Already past $300 ... seller must be happy.

The hypocrisy of eBay over this kind of listing is sad. eBay is forbidding all but the top 4 TPG slabs from being named but allowing this type of listing. Which is worse? At least if the coin is imaged from an "oddball" TPG, a bidder can see the item.

Steve27

Look at this picture of the roll, and how the wrapper is intentionally made to look like it's out of focus:

astrorat

I thought I would try something with eBay.

I just sent them a message asking that they develop a working group to evaluate the listing practices for this kind of item. Let's see how, or if, they respond. Back in the mid-2000s somebody got eBay fired up over TPGs, maybe we can do the same thing with "unsearched roll" listings.

TwoSides2aCoin

I did buy shares of CLCT and would suggest people get some silver and gold coins that are worth collecting. eBay is not a bad investment either.
Rolls of coins in auction wtih "key dates" on the end ? Not for my money, brothers and sisters.

phnatacc

You will never get your money's worth, but smart sellers of this type will also make sure you aren't overly screwed.

Rolls like this which end up selling for significantly more money than its original worth are opened, the two end coins are set aside, the roll is rebuilt to a value that comes closer to the amount paid, the end coins are inserted, the roll is re-rolled... and then it is shipped.

I'll never understand the fantasyland in which some people live but I don't begrudge someone who facilitates their fantasies. If Fantasyland denizens want to pay a *reasonable* fee to live out that fantasy, so be it.

astrorat

<< <i>Rolls like this which end up selling for significantly more money than its original worth are opened, the two end coins are set aside, the roll is rebuilt to a value that comes closer to the amount paid, the end coins are inserted, the roll is re-rolled... and then it is shipped. >>

And what evidence do you have of such a benevolent seller?

mr1931S

Seller is likely assuming he doesn't have to refund money if buyer unhappy with roll.

Now,that's naive.

derryb

not fraud or misleading. Seller states the facts: It "looks" unopened (to him) and he tells you what you can see on the two end coins. Any assumptions from there are the buyer's fault. He is not required to tell you that he is the one who made it look unopenend. Lack of full disclosure is not fraud, just bad business.

A claim that it is not as described will probably get the buyer nowhere. The only chance of a successful claim is the "looks unopened" but seller has posted pics which should prevent the purchase by anyone who disagrees. If buyer receives what is pictured, seller has delivered what was described. Seller is not stupid, only shady.

Buyer is purchasing a "grab bag," and should realize there is no guarantee from the seller of what is inside.

Cakes

<< <i>You will never get your money's worth, but smart sellers of this type will also make sure you aren't overly screwed.

Rolls like this which end up selling for significantly more money than its original worth are opened, the two end coins are set aside, the roll is rebuilt to a value that comes closer to the amount paid, the end coins are inserted, the roll is re-rolled... and then it is shipped.

I'll never understand the fantasyland in which some people live but I don't begrudge someone who facilitates their fantasies. If Fantasyland denizens want to pay a *reasonable* fee to live out that fantasy, so be it. >>



Some people love the gamble I guess.

astrorat

<< <i>not fraud or misleading. >>

You really don't think the listing is misleading? If so, then what is your working definition of misleading? The seller is clearly leading the buyer to believe it is an "old" roll of cents that has been unsearched. Just because the seller uses language that may not be considered fraudulent, doesn't mean he/she isn't trying to mislead the buyer.

DoubleEagle59

The buyers of these rolls are the ones glued to their seats every week wondering what the guys are going to find on Storage Wars.

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>not fraud or misleading. >>

You really don't think the listing is misleading? If so, then what is your working definition of misleading? The seller is clearly leading the buyer to believe it is an "old" roll of cents that has been unsearched. Just because the seller uses language that may not be considered fraudulent, doesn't mean he/she isn't trying to mislead the buyer. >>



Seller is hoping a potential buyer will make the wrong assumption. A smart potential buyer will make the correct assumption. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't. . .

astrorat

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>not fraud or misleading. >>

You really don't think the listing is misleading? If so, then what is your working definition of misleading? The seller is clearly leading the buyer to believe it is an "old" roll of cents that has been unsearched. Just because the seller uses language that may not be considered fraudulent, doesn't mean he/she isn't trying to mislead the buyer. >>


Seller is hoping a potential buyer will make the wrong assumption. A smart potential buyer will make the correct assumption. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't. . . >>

You can MIS-lead that same horse to polluted water ... without being fraudulent.

derryb

Telling me something as fact that is not fact is fraud and misleading. I believe all of the facts stated by the seller to be true. I believe that he believes he has made the roll look unopened. It's the facts that he doesn't state that are being interpreted as misleading, but full disclosure by a seller is not required. To many, not me, this is considered misleading. A buyer should buy based on what a seller states as fact. If seller lied, then a claim is justified. I too do not like these kinds of listings but sellers like this only make my ebay selling easier.

Making assumptions with coins on ebay can pay off, but the price has to be right and the seller has to at least appear to be genuinely unaware of what he really has.

To answer the OPs question, no, the seller is not unknowingly selling an original bank roll of 1909-S VDB cents. Seller knows exactly what he is selling and it is not a bank roll of 1909-S VDB cents. Quite sure there is not even one of them in the roll. Based on his subtitle they better all be wheat cents or buyer has grounds for a claim.

Wabbit2313

<< <i>You can lead a horse to water, but you can't. . . >>



I have actually come up with a new saying when it comes to things like this.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks........You can't teach a Dumb dog ANY tricks!!

Casman

Most of these sellers are smart enough to not buy their fillers with the same account. Not too long ago I sold a roll of old mercury dimes. I noticed that my buyer was also a seller and I clicked on his items to see what he was selling.

Here's my listing:

link to sale

Now if you've got nothing but time on your hands, take a look at my second to last photo, then zoom to the 2nd row from the bottom, the first merc dime in the second to last row in that photo has a D mint mark. Now focus on the gunk black spot in the letter U and the dark spot above it in the field...Markers if you will.

Now look at the roll my buyer put together:

link to home made roll

The end merc in his roll came from the roll he bought from me. His listing calls it a mystery roll, which I suppose it is to the buyer.

I agree that they salt the rolls just enough to make the buyer happy. Doing the math they are making a killing.

derryb

Smart sellers also use two accounts so that their buyers do not know what they paid for an item that they are reselling. However, if they purchased recently a search of completed sales will sometimes reveal their other identity as well as what they paid. I have used this to negotiate a lower, but still profitable for the seller, price without the seller knowing what I know.

phnatacc

<< <i>

<< <i>Rolls like this which end up selling for significantly more money than its original worth are opened, the two end coins are set aside, the roll is rebuilt to a value that comes closer to the amount paid, the end coins are inserted, the roll is re-rolled... and then it is shipped. >>

And what evidence do you have of such a benevolent seller? >>



Positive (or negative) feedback and a little common sense. If you choose to buy a fantasy from someone who has no record of filling said fantasy and get taken then I suppose you'll eventually be shaken to reality.

kookoox10

I'm surprised no one brought this up, but I just love the modern craft paper rolls the seller used. He did his own distressing to give it an older appearance. And the topper is that he claims this came from the Fed Reserve bank of San Francisco, yet fails to add a photo of a stamp or print saying so. That in itself should get him flagged. It would be no different than listing a coin with a numerical grade when it's not even slabbed.

FaberCastell

I am relatively new here so first I would like to express my appreciation to all of you for what I have learned from this forum. That being said, I have to being somewhat surprised that the discussion on this topic seems focused on the linguistic semantics of an eBay item's description, whether or not the text is "fraudulent" or not or whether it's misleading or not. There does appear to be a consensus that the auction does a disservice to the hobby, yet not one comment addresses this concern. Pretty surprising, in my opinion, given the name of this forum:

<i>COLLECTORS<i/> Universe Message Boards

Zrider

Who here has mistakenly rolled a silver dime on the END of a wheat penny roll.. The Bay is full of those also. Something really needs to be done about these type of listings.

19Lyds

<< <i>Seller mentions: "The roll looks like it hasn't been open for a very long time..."
Is this a strong selling point? >>

The phrase "a very long time" is totally relative.

In other words, hold your breath for 2 minutes and 20 seconds. I think you'll agree that 2 minutes and 20 seconds is "a very long time".

Let you potato's baked for 18 hours and I think you'll agree that 18 hours is "a very long time".

A Very Long Time could very well be three days, or perhaps a month. The true answer is "however long it's been since he wrapped these puppies up". That, my friends, is "a very ling time".

Capish?

BTW, I currently see 15 bids by 10 very stupid folks out there. Unless, of course, they need "salt" for their rolls in which case, judging from what these will sell for, maybe they aren't so stupid as much as "entrepreneurial"?

morgansforever

P.T. Barnum is always alive n kickin

KollectorKing

"The Fed Reserve Bank was created in 1913 or so by the Federal Reserve Act...."


"On December 23, 1913, the Federal Reserve System, which serves as the nation's central bank, was created by an act of Congress. "

astrorat

<< <i>I am relatively new here so first I would like to express my appreciation to all of you for what I have learned from this forum. That being said, I have to being somewhat surprised that the discussion on this topic seems focused on the linguistic semantics of an eBay item's description, whether or not the text is "fraudulent" or not or whether it's misleading or not. There does appear to be a consensus that the auction does a disservice to the hobby, yet not one comment addresses this concern. Pretty surprising, in my opinion, given the name of this forum:

<i>COLLECTORS<i/> Universe Message Boards >>

There have been many threads decrying this behavior as "bad" for the hobby and "wrong." It's all just finger wagging. I think derryb and I are/were just bantering back and forth about semantics because sometimes that is fun and provides a better conversation that we all agreeing that this behavior is "bad."

coolest

I must point out that almost every seller like this is located in New Jersey, what is up with that?

Rampage

Well folks, while I am not standing up for the seller, he states the roll has an 09 vdb on one end and 09s on the other. He never says 09 s vdb.

derryb

<< <i>I am relatively new here so first I would like to express my appreciation to all of you for what I have learned from this forum. That being said, I have to being somewhat surprised that the discussion on this topic seems focused on the linguistic semantics of an eBay item's description, whether or not the text is "fraudulent" or not or whether it's misleading or not. There does appear to be a consensus that the auction does a disservice to the hobby, yet not one comment addresses this concern. Pretty surprising, in my opinion, given the name of this forum:

<i>COLLECTORS<i/> Universe Message Boards >>


A thorough discussion on an ebay listing cannot be conducted without talking about the description. Note that the thread title has nothing to do with the listing being a disservice to the hobby, it has to do with the seller's knowledge of what he listed on ebay. The description was carefully worded to attract an inexperienced cherrypicker.

My discussion about the description and wording concerns the ability of a buyer to return the item using ebay's "not as described" protection. Winning such a claim is 100% dependent on the description vs. what the buyer receives. If buyer receives what was described then he has no grounds for "not as described." To determine eligibility for using the claim process the desription becomes very important and should be fully scrutinized. As stated, I believe the seller protected himself from such a claim with the wording he used and his lack of full disclosure (which is not required). I feel confident that buyer will recieve what is described - a roll of wheaties with a year unknow VDB on one end and a 1909 S on the other end. Seller is hoping to hook a cherrypicker who is hoping the seller doesn't know what he has. Does this make the buyer scrupulous?

Not as described claims are not won based on buyer assumptions, they are won based on seller description.

sniocsu

There is no way...that is why I am not bidding

derryb

Seller seems to know a lot about the unseen obverses or is making a bad assumption about what remains unseen? Note that he did not display any picture of what is or is not written on the wrapper.