1909MPL rev

FunwithMPL

I was working on my exhibit and found this 1909 rev.

Any one have a 1909 MPL with these die lines at the C of CENT





Carl

lusterlover

I too have the die line on the C.

drei3ree

+1

renomedphys

This mark has been discussed here back in 2008 and was brought up by Duane Blake. We did a little detective work and found the mark on many 1910 - 191? MPL's, as well as several business strikes from the teens that I had in my collection at the time. Link anyone?

lusterlover

I thought he was referencing the line on the C, not the slash in the C.

renomedphys

Well what I can say is that every MPL that I have seen with the slash also has the line. Moreover, since I and others have identified other dates in the MPL series with both the line and the slash, but different polishing marks on reverses of different dates, the logical conclusion would be that those marks are part of the working hub as well as the working die.

OK, let's get this straight. Plaster casting (positive) >> Rubber Mold (Negative) >> Epoxy Galvano (Positive) >> Steel Master Hub (Positive via Janvier Reducing Lathe) >> Master Die (Negative) >> Working Hub(s) (Positive) >> Working Die(s) (Negative) >> Coin

So, at what part of the chain do these marks originate? To me, the diagonal slash in the center of the C field looks incuse, while the more vertical line touching the C looks raised. Without knowing exactly how far up the chain the marks originate, you could likely assume the fewest steps. Moreover, the marks are probably both the result of polishing one of the metal bits along the way. Based on the above conclusions, I would argue that the vertical line in the C originated from a polishing line in the Master Die. If it were imparted at the Working Die phase, I doubt we'd see it on other than one date, unless the same die was used for more than one date, which would seem to be not possible since there are so many other polishing marks from date to date that do not line up. And what about the slash? If the diagonal slash is indeed incuse on the coin, then it could have been imparted at the working hub only. If this is true, then every coin that has the slash also has the line. But since Master Dies produce many Working Hubs, the converse is most likely not true, and we should expect to find coins with the line and not the slash.

Back four years ago, I was able to identify the slash in the center of the "C" field on business strike dates as late as 1917, but since I don't own any of those coins anymore, and most of my photos of that set are pretty fuzzy, you'll have to take my word. That, and at the time, we weren't looking for the "line" at all. I'm still curious as to whether or not every coin with a slash also has a line or visa versa.

OK, now my head hurts.

drwstr123

1909 VDB

FunwithMPL

After looking at all of my MPL's I notice that this master die with both die lines inside the C, and in the touching the C I have seen of all dates from 1909 thur 1916 MPL's. Not all coins but all dates.

I now have 44 different expamples of dies and or die states for my exhibit.