did the metals sell off today because...
cohodk
Posts: 19,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
... it is the 21st in Japan and they're still there?
Excuses are tools of the ignorant
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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I knew it would happen.
OP loves conspiracies.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Maybe, but could be this
OP loves conspiracies.
Thanks for the link. I vote for conspiracy.
Profit taking? Who was making a profit this year at $1635-$1650 gold? Wouldn't those same people have logically chose $1700, $1750 or $1790+ to take their profits?
This was a steady sequence of sell stops hit following heavy volume attacks. That's how they do it.
Don't we have to get to NOON today to be officially over the Mayan hump? Or possibly to the end of the day?
<< <i>The Solstice is at 6:12 AM EST. Modern calendar dates did not exist when they were carving the stone. >>
OK. So 6 am Mexico City time is roughly equivalent to central or mountain time. So we still have a few hours left to get our affairs in order.
I still don't understand this concept. Doesn't there have to be a buyer for every share being sold? There can never be more of one or the other because it takes the other to make the trade.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
ah hah, I get it. So your inital post in this thread was just you trolling, again?
<< <i>The conspiracy angle is laughable and the profit taking idea is just plain dumb. Gold failed at 1800 resistance and has been trending lower since. This is just a continuation of the trend. Gold is not cheap at these levels and buyers are becoming more and more scarce.
ah hah, I get it. So your inital post in this thread was just you trolling, again?
Yup, and looks like I hooked one.
Happy End of Days!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>The conspiracy angle is laughable and the profit taking idea is just plain dumb. Gold failed at 1800 resistance and has been trending lower since. This is just a continuation of the trend. Gold is not cheap at these levels and buyers are becoming more and more scarce.
ah hah, I get it. So your inital post in this thread was just you trolling, again?
Yup, and looks like I hooked one.
Happy End of Days!!! >>
<< <i>Because there were more paper sellers than there were paper buyers, of course
I still don't understand this concept. Doesn't there have to be a buyer for every share being sold? There can never be more of one or the other because it takes the other to make the trade. >>
More people wanting to sell than people wanting to buy. This condition causes sellers to lower their price to get a buyer. As sellers reduce their ask price more buyers will participate.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
So just want to be clear, you've admitted to trolling. Thanks
<< <i>Yup, and looks like I hooked one
So just want to be clear, you've admitted to trolling. Thanks
lol@ trolling
POM, you need to understand the concept of a "short trade", and then extend that concept to "naked shorting". Once you understand that, you need to start studying the market implications of "naked shorting" in an exchange where the trades are not transparent, and where the laws that apply to individuals do not apply to large bullion banks. "Naked shorting" is illegal for anyone except the big banks, just like printing money is illegal for anyone but the Fed. They deny that they do it, but it's been obvious for years.
In essence, JPM can create any number of sell orders instantly without actually owning silver, or any offsetting silver positions, without any oversight by the regulators. But before they do it, they can use their HFT computers and proximity to the exchange to test the entire "buy side" for any standing buy orders to find out where the resistance to selling really is, without risking a dime. Once they know where the real resistance is, they jump on the existing buy orders with an overwhelming volume of sell orders, and the price drops quickly. JPM is the only one who knows why the price is dropping, or how far it will drop. If they do it during a light volume session or in after hours trading on light volume, it costs them very little to start a snowball, or a waterfall in prices. Basically, they do it in order to scare the crap out of anyone else who is in the market in an attempt to make them panic and sell.
When other market participants see the drop, some of them panic and sell in order to avoid taking a loss. (It's especially scary for paper traders who are already playing on margin and think that they are fast enough or smart enough to avoid being crushed by something like this.) This actually helps JPM's strategy in driving the price down. If they get lucky, they can even break through the resistance and cause further drops than they intended.
Once they get to their intended price point, they buy all of their sell orders back at the lower price. Because they are the only ones who know what is going on, there are always traders who fall prey and sell when they shouldn't have sold.
In other words, it's a rigged market and the only ones who get away with this tactic are the big banks who are in collusion with the regulators (in collusion because they continue to look the other way and can never seem to get good documentation from the exchanges.) The only reason that silver ever goes up, is because of real demand and possibly because of real shortages.
But it's a "conspiracy", don't you know? Just be advised that you are playing in an extremely rigged market and that your best analysis and your best intuition aren't as useful as you might think.
I knew it would happen.
That is somewhat clearifying and I appreciate it.
<< <i>Economic news has been horrid recently and another recession is now expected. >>
When did the last one end?
<< <i>
<< <i>Economic news has been horrid recently and another recession is now expected. >>
When did the last one end? >>
Exactly right!
Jmski52 has described the "management" process quite well.
The HFT's can post the sell orders just to see how the market responds. If they don't like what they see they can pull them right back before they even execute.
The game is to manage the price rise, not to keep the price down indefinitely which they couldn't possibly do without getting killed themselves. The orderly 10 yr uptrend in gold
is a perfect reflection of a managed rise....quite different than what gold did in the 1970's where it doubled in price twice within 6 months. Proper management of the rise
has kept gold to a doubling in price within 2-3 yrs. And on each move up and down the banks make out very well since they know where they are steering price to in the short term.
The bankers can deal with a consistent 10-15% per year rise in gold. What they can't allow to happen is a 100% rise in one year. Silver did break away in 2011 and do that. The silver
shorts lost control for a few months and had to call in favors at the CME to do half a dozen margin rate hikes to put out their fire. They will be better prepared next time. But they will
never allow gold to rise that steeply without a smackdown. The only exception will be when the current banking system finally does start to collapse. At that point, their powers to
manage the ascent will be negligible. At that point they might need the president to declare a national emergency, place restrictions on gold, and bail out the banker's butts again.
If I were the POTUS and the big banks and FED/Treasury were not hammering down the price of gold and silver at key points, I'd fire them & find the guys that would. Hence Timmy G.
is a great choice to takeover for BB at the end of his term. The heads of the CFTC have to be rewarded with promotions as well for all their foot dragging on trying to find manipulation in
the silver market. 4 yrs and counting and they still can't find anything. They didn't even have a problem with JPM's $203 BILL otc derivs position in silver during summer of 2008.
I guess having a position equal to 14 yrs of world silver production (or 4 yrs of world gold production) didn't exceed the common sense test. Maybe 20 yrs would have done it.
•Economic powerhouse Brazil added 14.7 tons in November. Their gold holdings total 67.2 tons.
•Turkey bought 5.9 tons in the last month.
•Russia increased their gold holdings with 2.9 tons in November.
•Belarus bought 1.4 ton.
and, Iraq quadrupled its gold holdings to 31.07 tonnes between August and October
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Economic powerhouse Brazil added 14.7 tons in November. Their gold holdings total 67.2 tons.
•Turkey bought 5.9 tons in the last month.
•Russia increased their gold holdings with 2.9 tons in November.
•Belarus bought 1.4 ton.
and, Iraq quadrupled its gold holdings to 31.07 tonnes between August and October
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>How many times did Joe 6 pack americana buy? It might be interesting for a comparison. >>
While central banks flood the market with paper currency, they stock up on gold. Tells me all I need to know.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>So no one knows how much gold Americans are buying? Seems funny we know how much the Indians or Chinese buy, but not Americans. HMMM >>
Who is selling to the Indians and Chinese?
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i>
<< <i>So no one knows how much gold Americans are buying? Seems funny we know how much the Indians or Chinese buy, but not Americans. HMMM >>
Who is selling to the Indians and Chinese? >>
The mining companies? Just as more dollars are being created everyday, gold and silver is being mined and added to supply.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i> The mining companies? Just as more dollars are being created everyday, gold and silver is being mined and added to supply. >>
The main difference being that gold is being created at a much smaller 1-1/2 to 2% per year increase while paper money is running at around +5% to +10% per year world wide.
The FED's M2 money supply rise has been averaging +7 to +10% per year for the past 17 years. Gold supply increase is keeping up with population growth. Paper money is
far outdistancing everything but otc derivatives. The silver being mined is not adding to supply as all of it is being used up. Usable above ground silver supplies are in constant
deficit mode. The silver market has been relying on recycled silver from silverware, junk bars & rounds, and 90% coins to fill the large investment demand gap.
And if the costs/risks of mining continue to escalate as they have been, don't count on the miners to keep bringing home the bacon. The junior pipeline is normally expected to
feed the senior miners with growth potential. But the juniors are finding themselves cash strapped with no life lines. One by one they are headed to zero value. Relatively few juniors
will survive these next 2 years. That means potentially no growth and possibly even declining production for some seniors and intermediates. Seniors have been cutting back on
projects left and right. If gold should fall back to $1500 or even lower, watch them really pull in the horns on production as many mines will become unprofitable.
This kinda makes me want to start re-emphasizing silver, but it's just so much weight & bulk. I suppose that some day it'll pay off handsomely. $30.03/oz. doesn't really seem too bad. Roadrunner, Silver Barron, derryb - all making nice noises about silver............... Hmmmm.
I knew it would happen.
Sometimes it's fun to go back a decade and read about the same stuff we talk about today....silver shortages, derivatives, cartels, naked shorting, conspiracies, foreign govt demand. Nothing has changed, not even the price of PMs.
For reference, this thread was started as we were discussing the end of days according to the Mayan calendar
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
It's how the gutter peddlers make their living; selling fear, conspiracies, fake gutter shortages etc. Some appear to take it hook line and sinker. SMH!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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Reminiscing on the silver market of about 10 years ago ...
Nearly 10 years ago (2014) Holabird auctions sold a bunch of silver ingots. If anyone has any similar ingots, for most of them I would gladly pay AT LEAST 50% MORE than what they sold for in 2014. For many of them, I would pay at least double the 2014 realized price. And if they didn't sell (didn't meet the reserve) in 2014, I would still pay 50% above (or more) than the reserve price for most of them.
This link goes to page 21 where the ingots start. Pages 21-30 have the ingots:
https://holabirdamericana.liveauctiongroup.com/search.aspx?p=21&ps=20&q=ingot&is=0&ex=0&so=15&sf=1&hi=0
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So you're ruffly looking to pay $30 an ounce for vintage silver bars.
Good luck, I guess it gets you out of the buyers premium.
Here is a Circle City bar that sold in 2014 for $24 per ounce:
https://holabirdamericana.liveauctiongroup.com/Circle-City-Silver-Ingot-1_i20352850
I just paid about $36 per ounce for one.
Here is a Yellow Daisy bar that didn't meet the starting bid of $25 per ounce in 2014:
https://holabirdamericana.liveauctiongroup.com/Yellow-Daisy-Refining-Co-Silver-Ingot-2_i20352865
I wish I could buy one now for 12 times that.
Interesting Link - those ingots are awesome
How cool is this Silver Railroad spike
This important silver spike is an historic ingot of gargantuan proportion. One of the few surviving last or first spikes for a western railroad, it may be the second of only two silver spikes still known in existence in private hands, the other being the Tonopah and Goldfield RR spike held by a private party.
The Denver & Rio Grande Railroad began as a narrow gauge (rail distance 3') in Denver, with the goal of connecting to Salt Lake City. The backers of the road wanted access to both coal and metal mines. As important silver discoveries were made, the road began construction to important silver camps. They got into a legal battle in 1880, and paid $1.4 million for the track through the Royal Gorge along the Arkansas River, key access to Leadville, which was quickly developing into one of the world's most important silver camps.
When Jay Gould came into control, he changed the focus on the road, and the construction of the branch to Rosita was terminated about 8 miles west near Silver Cliff, just one mile west in a new development known as Westcliffe. The entire business section of Rosita burned to the ground in March, 1881 during final construction, and this may have led to the decision to shorten the rail line to Westcliffe.
Regardless, the Custer County miners and merchants were ecstatic at the news that the rail was completed to Westcliffe. As reported in the Leadville Democrat May 27, 1881:
"SILVER CLIFF. A day long to be remembered by residents of Custer Co. Completion of the D&RG Road and the celebration in consequence thereof."
"A band was in attendance at the depot when the ceremony of driving a silver spike was presented by the citizens of Rosita and made from the silver of the Rosita mines. On arriving at the Powell House an address of welcome was made by Col. B.F. Montgomery of the Silver Cliff Prospect. This was followed by Gov Pitkin, ex-Gov Gilpin, Carl Wulaten and honorable H.A. Riley, solicitor of the D & RG 's road. The silver spike was then formally presented to the railroad company on behalf of which Mr. Riley made an appropriate speech of acceptance."
Riley later presented the silver spike to the D&RGRR president, General William J. Palmer. Palmer's granddaughter Mrs. E.Q, Nicholson then gifted the spike on 8/27/1991 to a collector, then sold to the present owner. A note from the family accompanies the spike.
The silver spike weighs 6.57 troy ounces, and is about 4" long, engraved on all four sides of the spike and on the top as well.
"Rosita" on the top of the spike.
"The Citizens of Rosita, Greeting//
May, 1881//
From the Silver mines near Rosita//
In Commemoration of the Completion of the/ D&RG RR to Custer County, Colorado"
The silver spike shows impact on the head where struck.
City: Rosita
County: Custer County
State: CO
Date: 1881
It's all about what the people want...
My silver stack looks almost like it did 10 years ago, except that it's bigger now than then. Just as planned.
I knew it would happen.
Some amazing bars in that sale! I really enjoyed looking through those pages.
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Click on this link to see my ebay listings.