Do half grades bumps on cards help the cards or actually hurt the cards??

bobbyw8469

The reason I ask....tonight.....had a 1935 Diamond Stars KiKi Cuyler cards....PSA 6.5. PSA 6 VCP average is $100 on the card. My 6.5 actually sold for $25 less - $75. So my question is - Does the half grade bumps on the cards actually HURT the final sales price a card can get?

Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 6 - Average Price: $98.56

2/15/12 eBay Image bbcinv o***o 14 $97.68
2/10/12 eBay Image m.sassin o***p BIN $112.00
12/28/11 eBay Image jrowejr25 6***o 39 $86.00
12/14/11 eBay Image igor-cat 2***e 11 $72.01
11/26/11 eBay Image sttevegolf c***o 5 $77.00
11/19/11 eBay Image dslsports d***f 1 $89.99 1935
7/18/11 eBay Image grays c***o 21 $101.01 1935


PSA 6.5 ---->

Cuyler

mikeschmidt

If you'd like to make a statistically significant conclusion, you need more than one specific example to make a point. n-count of 30 or more is when statistical significance starts to become meaningful.

In general, higher grades should sell for more...maybe it was a bad scan, maybe it was a bad auction time. Don't know without more information...

MattyC

A higher grade is never a bad thing. I'd hesitate to let a single auction lead to such a general, sweeping theory. Often times we see a card in GRADE x sell for more or less than its brethren. We also see lower graded cards sell for more than a higher grade. Many factors to consider when this happens: eye appeal of the example in question, desirability/popularity of the issue at present vs prior sales, population increase (especially if a common), venue in which the cards being compared were offered for sale (i.e., big seller who gets eyeballs, quality scans), all these all come into play.

VitoCo1972

It's a week before Christmas. A lot of people don't have extra money for collectibles this time of year. One of many scenarios more likely than the original hypothesis.

WalterSobchak

My thought is that the only people who are looking for the card you were selling in EX-MT who would be deterred by the half grade are people who are specifically working on that set in PSA 6 and PSA 6 only. I doubt that would be as much of a detriment as the higher grade would be a positive.

Maybe you just got unlucky on this one, maybe the fact that it's Christmas shopping season hurt you. Personally, I would rather have a PSA 6.5 than a PSA 6 (assuming similar centering and similar print/focus) every time.

grote15

<< <i>It's a week before Christmas. A lot of people don't have extra money for collectibles this time of year. One of many scenarios more likely than the original hypothesis. >>



Bingo...VCP avg doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get around that price unless you do a BIN..

otwcards

<< <i>The reason I ask....tonight.....had a 1935 Diamond Stars KiKi Cuyler cards....PSA 6.5. PSA 6 VCP average is $100 on the card. My 6.5 actually sold for $25 less - $75. So my question is - Does the half grade bumps on the cards actually HURT the final sales price a card can get?

Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 6 - Average Price: $98.56

2/15/12 eBay Image bbcinv o***o 14 $97.68
2/10/12 eBay Image m.sassin o***p BIN $112.00
12/28/11 eBay Image jrowejr25 6***o 39 $86.00
12/14/11 eBay Image igor-cat 2***e 11 $72.01
11/26/11 eBay Image sttevegolf c***o 5 $77.00
11/19/11 eBay Image dslsports d***f 1 $89.99 1935
7/18/11 eBay Image grays c***o 21 $101.01 1935


PSA 6.5 ---->

Cuyler >>



Maybe it is just you?

I've seen more than my share of cards get some serious kick out of half grade bumps.

bighurt2000

There was a post about this same question recently and some of the people were thinking that when buyers
were searching for PSA 6's & 7's they missed the half grade all together causing a lower final sale price.

James

otwcards

<< <i>There was a post about this same question recently and some of the people were thinking that when buyers
were searching for PSA 6's & 7's they missed the half grade all together causing a lower final sale price.

James >>



The half grades won't be lost in a search. A "PSA 6.5" WILL come up in a "PSA 6" query.

bighurt2000

<< <i>The half grades won't be lost in a search. A "PSA 6.5" WILL come up in a "PSA 6" query. >>



I think you maybe wrong about that I just did an Ebay search for Mickey Mantle PSA 6 and
there were 379 hits went through them all just (1) PSA 6.5 out of 379. Then I did a search
for Mickey Mantle psa 6.5 and there were 17 hits.

Am I wrong here guys?

James

msassin

Timing (right before Christmas and early Sunday evening) may have been a factor - I've seen some real low prices last couple weeks on graded Goudy/DS/PB.

Also, T/B centering may have caused a couple not to bid.....still a nice card

larryallen73

Do you want to trade all your half grade cards for the lower (but full) grade card? I am sure some people on here will take you up on that. Then you can test the theory with a large sample population.

JHS5120

It's not just timing.. Half grades can hurt cards a lot! Especially for set collectors. I have made plenty of money buying half grade cards for below their lower full grade counterpart and then selling it BIN.

If you are constructing a PSA 8 set - a PSA 8.5 isn't worth a premium to you (but a 9 sometimes is) and if you are constructing a PSA 9 set - then an 8.5 is virtually worthless even though you might have PSA 8 fillers.

Just something I noticed.

otwcards

<< <i>

<< <i>The half grades won't be lost in a search. A "PSA 6.5" WILL come up in a "PSA 6" query. >>



I think you maybe wrong about that I just did an Ebay search for Mickey Mantle PSA 6 and
there were 379 hits went through them all just (1) PSA 6.5 out of 379. Then I did a search
for Mickey Mantle psa 6.5 and there were 17 hits.

Am I wrong here guys?

James >>



It appears that I am wrong. eBay must've adjust some of their search characteristics with the removal of the wild cards. The "." was always treated as a blank space, hence the "PSA 6" search would return the "PSA 6.5" as if it were a "PSA 6 5" by ignoring the punctuation. The same was true of: "/, -, _, +, =, !, etc..."

WinPitcher

I think the T/B centering was a major factor in your card selling for what it did.

Nice corners though.

JHS5120

<< <i>I'm not sure what data you are looking at but 8.5 cards sell for VERY STRONG premiums. At least on superstar HOF vintage material, often times bringing over double what an 8 will bring. >>



I'm not so much talking about the "superstar HOF vintage material" I'm more talking about the low pop commons, "C" hall of famers and mid-high grade "B" hall of famers (like this card).

Albertdidit

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>The half grades won't be lost in a search. A "PSA 6.5" WILL come up in a "PSA 6" query. >>



I think you maybe wrong about that I just did an Ebay search for Mickey Mantle PSA 6 and
there were 379 hits went through them all just (1) PSA 6.5 out of 379. Then I did a search
for Mickey Mantle psa 6.5 and there were 17 hits.

Am I wrong here guys?

James >>



It appears that I am wrong. eBay must've adjust some of their search characteristics with the removal of the wild cards. The "." was always treated as a blank space, hence the "PSA 6" search would return the "PSA 6.5" as if it were a "PSA 6 5" by ignoring the punctuation. The same was true of: "/, -, _, +, =, !, etc..." >>



I remember that also that if you put in PSA 6 for example that all the 6.5 would come up also. I liked when it was like that. Oh well

JHS5120

<< <i>While I'm not familiar with the data, I have to believe that collectors in virtually in all instances would prefer an 8.5 to an 8 and that collectors of 9s would much rather have an 8.5 than an 8. Not specific examples will probably fluctuate as I would way rather have a really well centered 8 than a 9 that isn't so well centered. But all else being pretty much equal, this comment by you:

"If you are constructing a PSA 8 set - a PSA 8.5 isn't worth a premium to you (but a 9 sometimes is) and if you are constructing a PSA 9 set - then an 8.5 is virtually worthless even though you might have PSA 8 fillers."

is way off the mark. Now I'm sure there are exceptions, but very few and far between. >>





Half point grades tend to have a smaller market.



I finished a 1975 Topps set in all PSA 8+ I cannot tell you the amount of PSA 8.5's I have purchased below PSA 8 VCP.

I wouldn't say that they are "few and far between" It happens much more than you would think.

JHS5120

<< <i>PSA 1975s aren't all that expensive in 9, let alone 8.5 or 8. I would agree that the price is negligible enough with commons or lower end stars that 8.5s might randomly sell for less than 8s on a regular basis as they don't come up frequently in any event and you just buy whatever's available. Furthermore, I'm not even sure that 1975 commons (or even low end star) 8s are even worth grading anymore. So this may be just you and I talking apples and oranges.

But I still don't understand your comment as to why a collector of 8s wouldn't buy 8.5s but might buy 9s. Especially if your frame of reference is the 1975 set. They'll buy a $20-30 HOF card, but won't consider paying $5-10 extra dollars for an 8.5 but will pay triple or more to get a 9??? I could understand if you said that some won't buy anything other than 8s to keep the grades all consistent (there are those kinds of collectors though not that many). In that same vein, I'm not sure why you think a collector of 9s would think that 8.5s are "virtually worthless" yet they might consider filling those holes with 8s. This comments seems way out of whack. Especially in light of the fact that a lot of 9 collectors are registry guys who need the extra points from 8.5s versus 8s.

I will acknowledge that there might be a very small portion of collectors that just don't like .5 graded cards for any reason and want to stick with whole numbers but once again, I have to believe that is few and far between. >>





Half point grades have a much smaller market. If you are trying to assemble a set on a dime (Like I was and like you're describing) then half point cards work great! But for set registrants who are not all that concerned with the cost - half point grades fall through the cracks.

I'm in no way saying it happens 50-70% of the time - more like 20-30%, but it happens often enough to rule out coincidence. - Just go to any card in VCP and I'm sure you'll find one or more examples of a half point grade selling for less than it's lower full grade counterpart.

Here are a couple good exmples: (I bought and sold one of them but I can't remember for the life of me which one)

PSA 8.5
PSA 8.5


Also, I used the 1975 Topps example because it's a good one for a few reasons. Low pop commons can sell for $200-400+ at times in PSA 9 and $10-20 in PSA 8, but only $15+ in PSA 8.5. There is just no market for them.

PSA 8.5
PSA 8.5
PSA 8.5
PSA 8.5
PSA 8.5
PSA 8.5
PSA 8.5
PSA 8.5

There is no explanation for this other than PSA half point cards have a much smaller market. That's it. It happens way too ofter to be just by chance. Btw - a lot of those 8.5's are in my set

Mickey71

Baseball,
I totally agree with you.

On a side note...in regards to anything 1975. They might not be worth the grading fees in the long run. So who cares if they are 8 or 8.5

JHS5120

<< <i>Baseball,
I totally agree with you.

On a side note...in regards to anything 1975. They might not be worth the grading fees in the long run. So who cares if they are 8 or 8.5 >>




As a collector, I'll take an 8.5 over an 8 easy.

As a dealer, I would take the 8 any day. I can sell it much faster for the price I want - you really need to search for the right collector when it comes to half grades.

CollectorAtWork

Bobby, I would say that half points definitely help the sale price of the card. Practically every one of my half point bumps have increased the price. Personally, I think what happened to you is due to the "99 cent auction crapshoot." Some times these go well, but in my personal experience, more often than not, the prices go below expectations. This is what I do, and what I wholeheartedly recommend to other sellers (although buyers won't like it): list all of your cards at VCP prices or above as the starting price when ebay does not charge insertion fees for listings, like right now. You will inevitably get your price or close to it, and no one can accuse you of shill bidding or safety bids or whatever because the start price is already at your minimum bid. What you do lose is the occasional auction madness when two bidders really go at it, but I think you gain a lot more security in getting the price you want. Obviously, it may also take you some time to sell the card because not everyone will buy it at your price. However, I have beaten VCP average and even prices that PWCC and Probstein123 get numerous times.

What I am basically doing is setting a BIN, but using the auction format, but taking advantage of ebay's promotion until the end of the year of not having insertion fees for Sports items. When you set it as an auction listing you get more viewers. Even right now, during the Christmas season, I have gotten really nice sale prices due to people buying cards as gifts. What I usually do is to look at VCP or the recently completed auctions on ebay for a card in that grade, and then set my price slightly higher than this, but lower than the prices for any current auction (w/ no bids) or BIN. This ensures that I have the lowest price for that card at that grade. If the card doesn't sell after a while, I gradually lower the price, even to the point where sometimes I need to take losses. If the card really isn't moving, and is a higher priced item that I want to move, then I consign it to a larger auction house or ebay dealer.

Anyway, this is just my strategy, and I am certain that others have ideas that are just as good or better (like just consign to probstein, you idiots, and wait for the check to roll on in!)

bobbyw8469

Interesting response CollectorAtWork!! I like how you phrased it. I do miss when the bidders get "auction fever" and bid a card up, and the rush that goes along with seeing a card of yours sell for more than what you thought it would bring, but that seems to be few and far between these days. I think "auction fever" has kinda died out as a whole, and you would be extremely lucky to get a bid run up on your cards (shill bidding doesn't count as a "run-up". I don't condone that, nor partake in that). The strategy you suggest would be a nice way to get the money you want, but would also be a slow way to turn the cards. I definitely appreciate the input, and will tinker around with my formula.