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Why BGS or SGC over PSA?
lightningboy
Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭
Aside from personal preference/aesthetics, is there a single most important criteria why someone, who has PSA graded cards, would send to either of the other companies? Trying to figure out what aspect of condition would likely be less harshly graded by the 2, to allow for a higher overall grade. Thanks Tom
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<< <i>is there a single most important criteria why someone, who has PSA graded cards, would send to either of the other companies? >>
Yes, when PSA has already rejected the card.
Just to be fair. At one of the shows I used BVG to grade about 50 cards in person and they said 7 of them were no good trimmed. I didnt think they were trimmed and I sent them with some other card to PSA the next month. PSA graded all 7 cards. But I have seen both companies grade what the other said was no good.
-default is PSA, but there are cases where some items get sent to other companies by me
-If you're in a rush for some reason, SGC will get you your graded cards a lot faster than PSA for less money in fees. If you don't mind being patient, the PSA grades eventually do show up.
-A same-grade card usually sells for more in a PSA holder than an SGC (i.e., PSA 8 will sell higher than SGC 8). More set registry collectors push up the price on a card that otherwise might only have its value determined by itself rather than as part of a set, like you might have with someone buying from you one that is either BGS or SGC
-For cards that would either grade 8oc or 9oc w/ PSA but are still good enough that I would want to have them graded anyway instead of keeping them raw, I personally would rather take the chance at getting an SGC 7 instead of a PSA 8 OC or a PSA 6 NQ, though it does not always work out that way.
-SGC will holder items in 8x10 size but PSA won't
-There are some items that come back from PSA for factory min. size or fact. miscut that I in turn send to SGC and they get slabbed most of the time.
-On rare occasion I get one back from PSA that is a few grades lower than expected; in those cases, I will often crack it open and sub to SGC raw to compare the crossover.
-There are some more rare European sets that PSA won't grade but SGC will.
-If selling a card for its own value and not as something for someone's set registry, I get more in final sale price with a BGS holder than PSA or SGC if it is 1990 to present. 1980's is a close call and more of a case-by-case basis.
(1) Turnaround time. Obviously, with PSA being so slow these days, even with loggage, if you need a card authenticated within a short period of time, the other TPG's are more reliable. For example, if you purchase a card from ebay that you are not certain is authentic, and you need to have it graded within ebay's 45 day window, it may be better to go with another TPG. Even if you say to just use a higher service level at PSA, there have been plenty of cases where loggage takes multiple days, and the submission goes over the service level time. Both SGC and BGS are better in this respect.
(2) Cost. There are certain times when the other TPG's are cheaper because they allow you to mix size and service level submissions with one return postage label to save on shipping costs. As we know, for PSA, every service level and card size (e.g., regular vs tall boys, etc) need to be a separate submission, each with its own return postage costs. If you only have a few cards at different service levels and/or sizes, both SGC and BGS allow you to put this into a single submission (defaulting to the lowest service level turnarond time) in order to save return postage.
(3) There are certain cards that PSA does not grade that other TPG's grade. That is, PSA only grade cards in the Standard Catalog or similar reference books. Therefore, if your card is not there, they won't grade it. For example, I have a number of Real Photo postcards, W-UNC strip cards, and the like that PSA does not grade. I am forced to send these to SGC. In addition, PSA does not grade Fro Joy cards, which Beckett does, and there are other sets like this (e.g., Star).
(4) Fragility. PSA is the strictest TPG on fragility of the card, and not holdering cards for this reason. If the card is too fragile, PSA will not holder the card because it may be damaged during holdering. You cannot even ask for a waiver where you will accept any damages caused by the holdering process. Many cards that PSA deems too fragile, SGC is able to holder. Finally, BGS is able to holder just about any card even if it is extremely fragile due to the sleeve that they have in their holder. BGS is also the most lenient on partial cards, and holdering them. For example, if you have a strip card that is cut very badly, PSA and SGC may reject the card because too much of it is missing. BGS is most likely to holder it if anyone does. Same thing for skinned cards. If BGS won't holder it, no one will.
(5) Card size. As others have said, PSA has limits to the card size it is able to holder. I believe the max size is 5 x 7. SGC is able to holder up to 6 x 9, I believe, and BGS up to 8 x 11, I think. Therefore, if you have cards/premiums, etc that are higher than the max limit for PSA, you need to go to the other TPG's.
(6) Aesthetics. There are many collectors that prefer the black inset for SGC holders better than the regular PSA holders. I also think these SGC look better for the regular card size although I prefer the PSA holders in the other sizes since I think they are sturdier. Also, you can't beat BGS holders in terms of being tamper-proof and protecting your cards as many collectors have referred to these as similar to a brick especially when trying to crack cards out. PSA holders also have the "floating" card problem where if you have a card that doesn't fit the holder very well, your card will float inside the holder. If you have a high grade card, it is likely that your corners can become dinged as the card floats. SGC holders have the inset that usually fits the card better, so float is usually not an issue although it can still occur. However, the inset can sometimes "bite" into the edges of the cards, which can also cause damage. BGS is usually bhe best here at preventing float and not having the inset issues that SGC holders have.
Lou Gehrig Master Set
Non-Registry Collection
Game Used Cards Collection
I just cannot get past that stupid grading scale. What the heck is an SGC 88 anyway? Whoever thought of that grading scale has to have some mental issues.
Shane
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I don't have a problem with SGC's grading.
I just cannot get past that stupid grading scale. What the heck is an SGC 88 anyway? Whoever thought of that grading scale has to have some mental issues. >>
The 1 to 100 grading scale and the black insert were created to avoid royalties to Alan Hagar the owner of the patents to the
1 to 10 grading scale and arrow head holder design. PSA had to pay royalties for the use of both until Hagar let the patents end.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>IMO there is no reason to choose any of those services over PSA anymore. >>
lol.
aconte
I wish PSA had a special like BGS just came out with. 100 plus cards for $7 a card and 20 day turnaround.
With modern turnaround time is important especially if your selling the athletes that are hot. Waiting 3 months can hurt you if someone gets injured, traded, etc.
With all Vintage or cards that command a premium I always use PSA no questions asked.
PSA use to have a 10 or 20 day special for members and the turnaround was quick for like $8 a card. If I'm selling a Luck or RG3 auto card, I want that thing graded quick. I can wait on a Mantle or a Griffey Jr Upper Deck RC... 2 months, 3 months whatever it is. I don't complain about turnaround times, I just expect it will take a good 2.5 months for my grades to pop. I just had a 260 order pop in 2 months. It was like 38 bus days or something.
"Live everyday, don't throw it away"
SGC is for pre-war cards and subbed by old guys.
PSA is for everything else.
<< <i>Thank you for the input so far. What I was looking for more specifically is does PSA grader harsher for a touched corner, for centering, for a slight printing perfection etc? >>
I too would like to hear board members input on this issue. I use to think PSA was stricter, but with some of the inconsistencies I have seen lately, it makes me wonder. Also, since I do not buy other TPG's, I do not know if they have the same degree of inconsistencies as PSA.
As far as value is concerned, I have watched & compared many vintage graded cards in AH's where you have a PSA 8 and or a BVG 8 or SCG 8 and the PSA will out perform the others everytime. Yes, everytime that I have watched, and I'm guessing about 50 times or more that I have seen the 2 in the same auction, but everytime, the PSA sells for more! Now obviously that doesn't happen 100% of the time, but I think I am correct in assuming it must happen most of the time.
My only other thought on this subject was brought up earlier, but PSA, if I not mistaken, is the only TPG that has the OC qualifier, so many PSA 8 OC can be found in SCG8 & BVG8 holders. (BVG does have sub grades)
OK, one more thought! You often hear the only reason PSA outsells other TPG's is because of the huge register. But does the registry carry PSA or does quality of PSA make the registry strong?
Definitely the former. If it weren't for the registry, you'd never see people paying hundreds and even thousands of dollars for guys like Mario Mendoza and Marc Hill just because
the label says Gem Mint 10. The creation of the set registry was a brilliant marketing move by PSA.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
BGS also has a very nice case that is as close to tamper proof as you can get. I use them for all my shiny modern rookie autos.
PSA has a thin/small case(which is good for large sets) but their case sucks and I hear a lot of counterfeit/fakes/etc. look like the real McCoy. HOWEVER< they have the all powerful competitive registry which sets them apart from the aformentioned companies.
It seems PSA and BGS were a close 1st and 2nd a year ago, but the Dmitri Young auction validated PSA as the #1 by far and since then it's been all about PSA
I don't own any BGS or SGC...everything is PSA. They are the most credible, popular, and desired...but if they don't stop dishing out grades like this: Text
then we're all in trouble!
TheClockworkAngelCollection
Also, one of the main reasons why I like BGS over PSA is because of the inner sleeve the holders have. I can't stand the cards moving around in PSA holders.
<< <i>
<< <i>IMO there is no reason to choose any of those services over PSA anymore. >>
lol.
aconte >>
LOL II
I am primarily a basketball/MJ collector and feel BGS is much tougher on the 80's fleer cards than PSA. The fact that they are the only ones grading the Star cards and my desire for uniform holders makes BGS my go to. I also love the subgrades and the the holder.
That said, I dabble in 70s-80s baseball and love a nice Mantle here and there. I prefer PSA for those.
<< <i>1 thing is for sure though, BGS is light years ahead of everyone else with their holders. If you want to rest assure the card your purchasing is real buy bgs cards. Also they are substantially cheaper than psa or sgc >>
No, PSA is tougher on making sure cards are real. BGS will grade and authenticate cards that PSA will not
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>
<< <i>1 thing is for sure though, BGS is light years ahead of everyone else with their holders. If you want to rest assure the card your purchasing is real buy bgs cards. Also they are substantially cheaper than psa or sgc >>
No, PSA is tougher on making sure cards are real. BGS will grade and authenticate cards that PSA will not >>
I'd put money on BGS weeding out counterfeits over PSA But this is just because I've seen about 20 to 30 counterfeits in PSA slabs while I've never seen a fake card slabbed By BGS or seen anyone provide scans etc. of one....
I use to sub TONS of 1980's Fleer Basketball and BGS is hand down tougher when it comes to surface (print dots etc.) and also felt they were tougher on centering..
I like to use both though because some cards sell higher in PSA while some higher in BGS.. I don't consider SGC for what I collect..
If you want Honest and unbiased opinions you're only gonna get it from about 10% of the board members here.. There are some who's heads are so far up there rump that they not not capable of seeing the truth sometimes..
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>IMO there is no reason to choose any of those services over PSA anymore. >>
lol.
aconte >>
LOL II >>
LOL III
And BGS no question for case... And ability to safely encase odd shape items.
Beckett is much tougher on surface issues for modern... Pring defect such as fish eyes and refractor lines.
1) Aside from (arguably) ultra-modern cards (post-2000), their slabs sell for less.
2) For a low-level submitter they grade much tougher than PSA. HOWEVER , if you look at any card that has been heavily submitted-- 1989 UD Griffey, etc.-- the ratio of Gem Mints/Mints is higher for BGS than it is for PSA. This means that while it's harder for at least low level submitters to get a 9.5., a BGS 9.5 card will sell for less than a PSA 10 equivalent. Now, there could obviously be exceptions. But for a significant number of high-profile modern cards this relationship holds.
Why is that? I don't know for sure, and I'm hesitant to field a guess. But I do have my suspicions. In short, without being privvy to the inside workings of each firm I'd rather submit to a company that's publicly traded.
I suspect the main reason PSA brings stronger prices is the popularity of the registry, but to be honest I don't really care what the reason is.
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
<< <i>There are arguments to be made for BCCG, but if BGS dissolved tomorrow I wouldn't lose a second of sleep. Two reasons for this:
1) Aside from (arguably) ultra-modern cards (post-2000), their slabs sell for less.
2) For a low-level submitter they grade much tougher than PSA. HOWEVER , if you look at any card that has been heavily submitted-- 1989 UD Griffey, etc.-- the ratio of Gem Mints/Mints is higher for BGS than it is for PSA. This means that while it's harder for at least low level submitters to get a 9.5., a BGS 9.5 card will sell for less than a PSA 10 equivalent. Now, there could obviously be exceptions. But for a significant number of high-profile modern cards this relationship holds.
Why is that? I don't know for sure, and I'm hesitant to field a guess. But I do have my suspicions. In short, without being privvy to the inside workings of each firm I'd rather submit to a company that's publicly traded. >>
And what does a BGS 10 Griffey RC sell for?
<< <i>
<< <i>There are arguments to be made for BCCG, but if BGS dissolved tomorrow I wouldn't lose a second of sleep. Two reasons for this:
1) Aside from (arguably) ultra-modern cards (post-2000), their slabs sell for less.
2) For a low-level submitter they grade much tougher than PSA. HOWEVER , if you look at any card that has been heavily submitted-- 1989 UD Griffey, etc.-- the ratio of Gem Mints/Mints is higher for BGS than it is for PSA. This means that while it's harder for at least low level submitters to get a 9.5., a BGS 9.5 card will sell for less than a PSA 10 equivalent. Now, there could obviously be exceptions. But for a significant number of high-profile modern cards this relationship holds.
Why is that? I don't know for sure, and I'm hesitant to field a guess. But I do have my suspicions. In short, without being privvy to the inside workings of each firm I'd rather submit to a company that's publicly traded. >>
And what does a BGS 10 Griffey RC sell for? >>
Fair point-- there is equity in the BGS 10 grade that my initial post failed to recognize.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>ban them all j/k :-) >>
Please see Rule 9)... you have TWO lines in your tag line... please delete one IMMEDIATELY!
<< <i>
<< <i>IMO there is no reason to choose any of those services over PSA anymore. >>
lol.
aconte >>
LOL II
<< <i>Thank you for the input so far. What I was looking for more specifically is does PSA grader harsher for a touched corner, for centering, for a slight printing perfection etc? >>
No... Those who claim otherwise are simply trying to justify the higher cost they pay in order to add cards to their PSA registry sets.
The PSA set registry IS very powerful.
<< <i>
<< <i>
OK, one more thought! You often hear the only reason PSA outsells other TPG's is because of the huge register. But does the registry carry PSA or does quality of PSA make the registry strong? >>
I think it is very obvious that registry carries PSA. The quality of product and card are no better or worse than BGS or SGC. In fact, the power of the PSA registry and the competition it creates often sometimes leads to registry set collectors settling for a lesser quality card as long as the flip makes their registry set look better.
Meatloaf