1807 O-111 bearded goddess half dollar...but without the beard?

coin22lover

So, I'm quite certain it's either the O-111 or the much more common O-112. Usually it would be a breeze to determine the difference, but even under 30x magnification I can find no sign at all of a die crack under the chin. Other low grade examples I've looked up all seem to have an obvious "beard" even in this grade. I have long been aware of the mythical "beardless bearded goddess" but have never actually seen one, possibly until now. It's very challenging (to me) to conclusively prove this is really an O-111 because the lower left serif of the first 1 looks a bit weird and is hard to decide how much of it is there, however, the first 1 also appears higher than the date which seems to point toward the O-111.

Anyway, thoughts?

LanceNewmanOCC

.
finding a bearded goddess w/o the beard would be quite a find
.

coin22lover

<< <i>.
finding a bearded goddess w/o the beard would be quite a find
. >>




Curious, if it's so, the BHNC has it listed only as an R4+, whereas the Overton book says R6. Maybe the BHNC is factoring in the more common O-111's with beards?

I've also noticed there doesn't seem to be any sign of the crack through the left stars.

TennesseeDave

The reverse looks like the O-112 to me. I think I see the remnants of the 50/20

coin22lover

<< <i>The reverse looks like the O-112 to me. I think I see the remnants of the 50/20 >>




Yes...the 111 and 112 both have the same rev

RichieURich

Maybe this will help. Here is an 1807 O-111 prime I sold a while ago:

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>Curious, if it's so, the BHNC has it listed only as an R4+, whereas the Overton book says R6. Maybe the BHNC is factoring in the more common O-111's with beards?
I've also noticed there doesn't seem to be any sign of the crack through the left stars. >>


i'm not using either of those sources, so maybe my sources are flawed. wouldn't be the first time
i will say that my source(s) also show in the overton series, there are many semi-common (whatever semi-common means ) overtons that bring huge premiums when compared to their rarity rating.
a conundrum i see in a few diff places throughout numismatics.

coin22lover

Rich, thanks for the pics....great looking coin. I'm flying by the position on the first 1 on this one, I can't determine any other deciding feature, except maybe the B in Liberty being incomplete? Looks like we both have that going on.

jayPem

Very easy to determine...the date should be 1/4mm wider than the 112
Looks 111 to me based on the relationship of the 1 and 8, but don't worry, you'll have expert here in no time..

coin22lover

<< <i>the date should be 1/4mm wider than the 112 >>



I know, I saw that...that settles everything, huh?

jayPem

O-112 obverse....

coin22lover

Curious...it seems to me that while the 1-8 relationship most closely matches the O111, on the coin that Rich posted, the 1 8 appears to possibly be ever so slightly closer together than on mine. Maybe not, though.

harveypb

The O.111 also has a missing bottom left seriif on the 1 in the date.


BHNC #127

lava

I'm guessing the 111 is correct. The B is Liberty should be distinctly different, but difficult to tell from the angle of your photo.

jayPem

Do stars 3 and 4 look further apart in Rich's 111...?

lkeigwin

O.112. The left base of "1" is intact.
Lance.

jayPem

I can't tell for sure on the base of the one, but the star positions on 3 and 4 definately look different on the 111 and 22's coin....bummer

stman

O-111 would be missing the bottom left serif of the "1" OP example looks like I can indeed see the left bottom serif of the "1" sorry, no joy on this one IMO. Notice the one RichieURich posted, which I really like the looks of it and would like very much to own it.

RichieURich

<< <i>O-111 would be missing the bottom left serif of the "1" OP example looks like I can indeed see the left bottom serif of the "1" sorry, no joy on this one IMO. Notice the one RichieURich posted, which I really like the looks of it and would like very much to own it. >>



I agree with you, it is a very nice looking coin and I was happy to obtain it and hold onto it for a few days until it sold.

Since I am a dealer, any coin I post in a thread here is one that has already been sold, or is not for sale at all. (Don't want to spam the Forum.)

astrorat

Here is one I bought as an O-111a ... barely the slightest bit of a whisker.



I believe yours (in the OP) is O-112. In addition to the shape of the 1 in the date, look at the distance between stars 3 to 4 and 4 to 5. On O-112, the distance between stars 3 and 4 is much smaller than the distance between 4 and 5.

coin22lover

Ahh well, too bad for me!

johnny9434

<< <i>O.112. The left base of "1" is intact.
Lance.

>>

i like. thats a nice coin

mozin

Check out the position of the 7 under the lowest curl. For the Bearded Lady, the 7 is directly below the center of the curl, while on the O-112 the 7 is located slightly to the right under the curl.

SaultYooper

I vote for O.112. Check the relationship of S2 to S3. Note the inner points that are next to each other. On the 112, they are the same distance from the rim. On the 111, they are uneven.

BHNC #055