If your not having fun here, you're missing the main point of collecting. Saving new anythings to me would be very boring and not, IMHO, what collecting is about.
That is a beautiful piece and I'm glad I checked back and the photo was up!!
"I bought an NGC MS67 1865 Dime in 1988 or 1989 as part of an original proof set. (Apparently, the Mint ran out of proofs.) Although the coins were slabbed when I got them, the set came with an original presentation case with (IIRC) a birthday note inside the case. FWIW, I'm sure I figured the coin for far more than 11K at the time. The price made sense at the time. Keep in mind that PCGS and NGC had only been in business for a few years, pop reports were thinly populated, and most people had no idea how common most rare coins really are."
Andy ... I believe you hit the nail on the head with this post.
My earlier comment regarding "$50,000 in gold" is consistent with myriad postings on these boards over the years that address the modern collectors foolishly buying their coins instead of this or that. It is also very appropriate, because I just happened to inform the OP in a recent conversation that a couple of my customers who had been collecting classic coins (including Seated Dimes) decided recently to sell those coins and move some of their assets into low mintage modern bullion coins. I wanted to illustrate that even bullion coins without the "low mintage" benefits have, in many cases, greatly outperformed the classics (as in the case of this very coin) over the past 20-25 years. It's all a learning experience and my posts are intended to be in the very best light with the best of intentions. I, myself, have a blend of classic and modern coins in my personal collection. I can easily see what has performed well for me and what has not over the past 30 years (I came across a few common date Morgan Dollars in MS65 grade that I paid $800/coin for around 20 years ago as that was the going rate). I love coin collecting and if I can formulate a plan to "buy this instead of that" so that 10 or 15 years later I might have 5x the value allowing me to go back and buy 5x the cool classic coins I always dreamed of owning later, I believe the strategy is reasonable. It really has nothing to do with "this guy isn't really a true collector" because he is not buying the classic coins this very minute at whatever price and has a longer time horizon and a strategy based upon the past performance of "rare" coins vs. precious metals vs. the currency being used to buy the coins (in this case US Dollars).
As always, just my 2 cents. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Wondercoin - I think we are talking apples and oranges here. Some of us are collectors and some are investors and I guess some are a little of both like yourself.
Sure if you were wanting strictly an increase in money it would have been wise in hindsite to buy gold. But no body new gold was going to 2K. And If I was to want to buy gold for an investment I would just buy gold and not the marked up crap the mint puts out.
And again, I would rather have realone's dime than gold now. Who really knows where gold is going.
That's just the difference in a collector and investor I guess.
It is not just about investing in gold or modern US Mint products as an "investment" but also to increase your buying power to buy MORE classics as a collector. ss
Of course, that does not always work and sometimes it does.
From 1980 to 1990, it did not work. From 1990 to 2000 it worked better half of the time and half of the time it did not. From 2000 to now, it certainly worked.
You see, while waiting to buy the classic coins I DO WANT and knowing I might have to wait 5 to 10 years to acquire them, what do I do? Leave all my coin money in the stock market or in the bank? Don't make me laugh. Gold and silver has been better for me.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sure if you were wanting strictly an increase in money it would have been wise in hindsite to buy gold. But nobody new gold was going to 2K. And If I was to want to buy gold for an investment I would just buy gold and not the marked up crap the mint puts out.
I wouldn't go so far to say that "nobody" knew where gold was headed back in 2001/2002. Jim Sinclair put out a very compelling case for $1200/oz gold in 2002 based on the world's otc derivatives being approx $200 TRILL notional at that time. The fact that the growth in those accelerated into 2004-2006 only ensured a higher gold price. And from 1995 M2 money supply has advanced at a steady 8% per year. I knew nothing about gold fundamentals in 2002 but after reading Sinclair for 30 min I was convinced $1200 gold was not far off. At that time gold was at $315/oz and not far from the $252 bottom recorded in 2001. What downside risk was there considering stocks were coming off a 20 yr bull cycle and commodities out of a 20 yr bear cycle? My only mistake was thinking that rare coins would outperform bullion much as it had done from 1972-1980. So far that has not occurred. Plenty of people knew where gold was headed back in 2002. Sinclair's $1200 estimate was based on balancing the debt accumulated by the year 2002. That number is multiples higher today. I had never been interested in gold bullion before, not even during the crazy days of 1977-1980. I thought all those gold bugs were nuts. I was content to buy rare coins over gold. In 2002 my views were changed to allow room for both.
Realone: How would my bullion comparison have been "wrong" even if this coin had sold in my recent Stacks/Bowers consignment at $15k+? The bullion pile is worth $50,000 today.
Dimeman: While this discussion may exclude many collectors as you suggest, it is certainly reasonable within a thread where we are discussing a dime that costs nearly $10,000.
RR ... he knows the Seated market AND the bullion market like very, very few folks on this board.
Oreville ... knows more than just about anyone what "3 steps forward and 1 step backwards" means to building an amazing classic coin collection!
Most importantly, if we keep this thread going a little longer, GREAT COLLECTIONS should be able to sell another great coin that we can start a new thread about (their latest auction ends in about 10 minutes)
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Now take my previous quote and see the slight modification down below that many NON-RICH coin collectors including myself actually followed:
In fact, silver, mostly in the 90% US silver coins, has gone up from 3x to 5x face value to currently 23x face value. in the past 12 years.
<< <i>Text I agree with wondercoin and not dimeman. It is not just about investing in silver as an "investment" but also to increase your buying power to buy MORE classics as a collector. Of course, that does not always work and sometimes it does. From 1980 to 1990, it did not work. From 1990 to 2000 it worked better half of the time and half of the time it did not. From 2000 to now, it certainly worked. You see, while waiting to buy the classic coins I DO WANT and knowing I might have to wait 5 to 10 years to acquire them, what do I do? Leave all my coin money in the stock market or in the bank? Don't make me laugh. Silver has been BEST for me. >>
<< <i>>>>"but also to increase your buying power to buy MORE classics as a collector"<<<
I'm sorry, but these are the words of the "RICH".
Most collectors, including myself, haven't got the deep pockets to enable us to buy up GOLD and watch it go up so we can by coins!
You people are in a different world! >>
Not to further derail this thread... But I don't agree with this. If someone has a collection of 50 $20 coins and sells them, they might buy some $100 coins. Fast fwd a few years and the $100 coins sell and maybe a couple $1,000 coins may be on the radar. At some level, and this is different for everyone, one needs to consider the investment aspect.
Fwiw, the overall gem seated coin market has not reached the levels seen in 1989-1990. The exceptions to this are better date circs and pop top choice/gem MS better date coins. Like everything else, this market has bifurcated itself leaving the bulk behind and allowing the top 5-20% to move forward. But the bulk of the unc/proof market has not yet recovered from the 1990-1996 crash. It's not a particularly stellar record. Hence it's not surprising to me that many of those gem Stack and Lovejoy dimes from 1990 are worth substantially less today, without even considering the substantial drop in the dollar's purchasing power since January 1990.
I prefer higher denomination pre-33 US gold coins that have a dual means to an end - that means MS62-64 $10's, and MS63-66 $20's that don't wander terribly far from the price of bullion. Nothing wrong with a pretty MS63 $10 Indian that sells for a 40-60% premium to spot. These are real numismatic coins too. And the average guy on the street would be much more impressed with a flashy $10 Indian than a gem toned seated dime. Gold is a world market. Rare US coins are a US-centric market.
your most recent post, no argument from me. Indeed, it is just a means to an ends. All your other comments make sense and agree that if I had owned such coin in 1990 I too will have kept it as well. The enjoyment of ownership can and often outweighs the growth of sitting with growing buying funds.
But in reality, no one had all the money to buy everything in 1990 or 1994. So we try to accumulate our buying funds as we go along after 1990 and 1994 and hope that we get a second chance to buy the coins we missed out on. A third of the time we save money by buying the coin many years later and 2/3 of the time we pay lots more. No one can predict the future.
Nice coin! Your post got me to check out the GC website. Just one question... where are the coin descriptions? I only see photos... sure I'm missing it somewhere.
"I guess this thread is going to stay hijaked a bit longer."
"Wondercoin do you get my drift here? Apples and oranges"
Realone: I've said enough here unless you desire to keep this discussion going and, if so, I would be happy to address your latest volley. But, we can also end it with ... congratulations on your latest acquisition!!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
My "apples to apples" comp is classic coins to low mintage modern bullion; that is bullion where there are 2 ways to "win" ... from rising bullion prices and/or from the numismatic rise of the low mintage coins. Previous purchase examples of what I am discussing here could be gold Liberty spouse coins (2007-2010) or burnished gold eagles or even 2008 burnished platinum coins. Even the 2009 UHR is a good example, but that would be going for the incredible beauty (and demand) of a modern gold coin rather than the low mintage nature of the coin (but was equally as fine a play in my book). Where the low mintage numismatic play does not work (at least in the short run), the fallback is the bullion content; hence 2 ways to win. Case in point is the Jefferson Gold spouse which turned out to be a higher mintage at 19,000 - 20,000 than anyone expected in 2007 (as the lower mintage spouse coins of 2008 forward had not come out yet). Yet, the coin is beautiful, some may have been melted so the mintage may not be as high as reported and the coins are so widely distributed that it is still very tough to even locate a 25-50 coin position without difficulty quite often (at least from my personal experience). We'll see how the Jefferson spouse performs down the road as far as its "numismatic play" is concerned. But, while we wait that one out, the 8/30/11 Mint issue price of $410.95 is up about 325%+ in a little over five years (not too bad compared to the 1% and 2% CD rates over that same time period). Other coins dated 2008 and later have seen the "numismatic play" kick in a little bit and are up 400%, 500% and even higher. Yet, even a coin like the Jefferson spouse that has not seen a significant numismatic premium thus far is sporting a 325% gain in about 5 years. Not too bad.
This has nothing to do with real estate, opening a Subway restaurant, etc. That is "apples to oranges" with coins. Also, I am not discussing what coins I am personally buying today ... that would be too close to "investment advice" which I would never give on a message board. So, when you point out that these discussions are with 20-20 hindsight, I agree ... as I simply will not list a basket of coins here that I am personally buying today for my own account.
But, as Oreville and Roadrunner concur ... there are times ... even 10 and 20 year cycles where even the near thoughtless act of buying generic bullion gold or silver (as opposed to low mintage well thought out pieces) blew away the performance of classic collector coins. It appears that most Seated material over the past 20 years has not come close to matching the performance of even bullion gold or silver with the possible exception of Seated Dollars as a series and selected rarities. And, when these coins remain stagnant for decades the "lost opportunity cost" can be devastating ... I know because I have suffered it myself with some of my classic coins. Just the coin in this thread resulted in a loss of roughly $2,500 through holding it 22 years as opposed to close to a $40,000 gain with bullion (or perhaps way, way more than that with real estate as Realone suggests). On top of that consider this! In 1990, you could buy a gallon of gas for $1.16 so that Seated Dime was essentially worth 9,482 gallons of unleaded gas. I am paying about $3.90 a gallon today so that same gas would cost about $37,000. Yet, at an $8,500 value today, this dime buys 2,179 gallons of unleaded gas. The enjoyment of owning that single coin cost about 7,300 gallons of gas in my example to its owner during that time period! I have far worse examples of classic coins in my collection that I bought years ago that I am crushed in (and some non-bullion moderns as well to be sure).
Ok ... to sum it up ... with a longer time horizon I believe a logical goal of most collectors might be to not only enjoy their coins, but to not "go broke" while owning them. Even if your dime would have sold for exactly what it fetched in 1990, the buying power of those funds is way less as seen with my gasoline example. I agree that when you reach the point in your life that the money means next to nothing to you, that it is fine to ignore cycles, opportunity costs, etc., etc. and just to buy whatever you want and not worry about it. I am sure some collectors on these boards are at that point. But, as Dimeman points out "most" are probably not at that point, so it is probably not a bad thing to study the cycles, the alternatives in coins today and to try to plan a long term game plan to end up with the most classic and modern coins that you love by taking advantage of your current knowledge of these cycles and opportunities.
As our leader says ... have fun with your coins (and that goes for low mintage modern bullion coins just as much as the classics!)
As always, just my 2 cents
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
It would probably be news to those collectors building choice and gem gold US type sets that the MS63-64 $10 Indians they seek are not "real" numismatic coins but just bullion investments. Maybe they were "more numismatic" when in 2006 MS65 $10 Indians were $7500 instead of the $3500 they cost today. Or maybe when the MS63 $10 Indians were $2600+ in 2006-2007 (at $700/oz gold) they were more numismatic than they are today at less than half the price at $1715/oz gold. One wouldn't think that the price of bullion should affect what it is or isn't numismatic. Certainly the bulk of hobbyists don't think that a common XF/AU Morgan silver dollar is not numismatic even if >90% of its value comes from the intrinsic metal?
Great discussion by all. I like looking at the photo of Al's coin, but I enjoy even more looking at a stack of 8 dirty Liberty $10's in OGHs, with green and gold stickers, purchased for a small premium over melt in my SDB. There are many ways to enjoy collecting coins!
Realone: Surely you need to come up with something better than the assertion that GC fails to realize strong auction prices when it sells its coins! I bet even Ian would challenge your position on that one!
In fact, the coins I watch over there sell for solid prices these days.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Wondercoin, again you are missing my point. The value of the Liberty Seated Dime is not $8,450. That is just the price I bought it for, it is worth far more, how much is unknown at this point in time.≈ >>
Actually the value of your seated coin is one bid less then you paid for it. When you go to sell it then you may or may not realize a gain. If you never sell it then the point becomes moot.
Again, very nice coin.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Realone. I think your dime is great. I said so in my last post. Not to mention cac certified. But if I read your analysis correctly this dime sold 22 years ago for $11000? A pile of $11000 in simple gold bullion is worth about $50000 today. What do you disagree on? >>
Two very interesting, and very different, themes going on in this thread. The new acquisition is great, but in hindsight, didn't prove to appreciate in value for its former owner. Maybe the new owner will have better luck.
Addressing WC's point, the former owner of the coin would certainly have fared better investing in bullion, but with the run in bullion prices, that begs the question of what is the better investment in 2012? Over the next 20 years will bullion, in your opinion, outpace collector coins such as this one? (I ask because I genuinely have no idea, and am curious).
Comments
That is a beautiful piece and I'm glad I checked back and the photo was up!!
Andy ... I believe you hit the nail on the head with this post.
My earlier comment regarding "$50,000 in gold" is consistent with myriad postings on these boards over the years that address the modern collectors foolishly buying their coins instead of this or that. It is also very appropriate, because I just happened to inform the OP in a recent conversation that a couple of my customers who had been collecting classic coins (including Seated Dimes) decided recently to sell those coins and move some of their assets into low mintage modern bullion coins. I wanted to illustrate that even bullion coins without the "low mintage" benefits have, in many cases, greatly outperformed the classics (as in the case of this very coin) over the past 20-25 years. It's all a learning experience and my posts are intended to be in the very best light with the best of intentions. I, myself, have a blend of classic and modern coins in my personal collection. I can easily see what has performed well for me and what has not over the past 30 years (I came across a few common date Morgan Dollars in MS65 grade that I paid $800/coin for around 20 years ago as that was the going rate). I love coin collecting and if I can formulate a plan to "buy this instead of that" so that 10 or 15 years later I might have 5x the value allowing me to go back and buy 5x the cool classic coins I always dreamed of owning later, I believe the strategy is reasonable. It really has nothing to do with "this guy isn't really a true collector" because he is not buying the classic coins this very minute at whatever price and has a longer time horizon and a strategy based upon the past performance of "rare" coins vs. precious metals vs. the currency being used to buy the coins (in this case US Dollars).
As always, just my 2 cents. Wondercoin
Sure if you were wanting strictly an increase in money it would have been wise in hindsite to buy gold. But no body new gold was going to 2K. And If I was to want to buy gold for an investment I would just buy gold and not the marked up crap the mint puts out.
And again, I would rather have realone's dime than gold now. Who really knows where gold is going.
That's just the difference in a collector and investor I guess.
JMHO
It is not just about investing in gold or modern US Mint products as an "investment" but also to increase your buying power to buy MORE classics as a collector. ss
Of course, that does not always work and sometimes it does.
From 1980 to 1990, it did not work. From 1990 to 2000 it worked better half of the time and half of the time it did not. From 2000 to now, it certainly worked.
You see, while waiting to buy the classic coins I DO WANT and knowing I might have to wait 5 to 10 years to acquire them, what do I do?
Leave all my coin money in the stock market or in the bank? Don't make me laugh. Gold and silver has been better for me.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Exactly ... or for that matter ... MORE great moderns.
Wondercoin
I wouldn't go so far to say that "nobody" knew where gold was headed back in 2001/2002. Jim Sinclair put out a very compelling case for $1200/oz gold in 2002 based on the
world's otc derivatives being approx $200 TRILL notional at that time. The fact that the growth in those accelerated into 2004-2006 only ensured a higher gold price. And
from 1995 M2 money supply has advanced at a steady 8% per year. I knew nothing about gold fundamentals in 2002 but after reading Sinclair for 30 min I was convinced
$1200 gold was not far off. At that time gold was at $315/oz and not far from the $252 bottom recorded in 2001. What downside risk was there considering stocks were coming
off a 20 yr bull cycle and commodities out of a 20 yr bear cycle? My only mistake was thinking that rare coins would outperform bullion much as it had done from 1972-1980. So
far that has not occurred. Plenty of people knew where gold was headed back in 2002. Sinclair's $1200 estimate was based on balancing the debt accumulated by the year 2002.
That number is multiples higher today. I had never been interested in gold bullion before, not even during the crazy days of 1977-1980. I thought all those gold bugs were nuts. I was
content to buy rare coins over gold. In 2002 my views were changed to allow room for both.
I'm sorry, but these are the words of the "RICH".
Most collectors, including myself, haven't got the deep pockets to enable us to buy up GOLD and watch it go up so we can by coins!
You people are in a different world!
Dimeman: While this discussion may exclude many collectors as you suggest, it is certainly reasonable within a thread where we are discussing a dime that costs nearly $10,000.
RR ... he knows the Seated market AND the bullion market like very, very few folks on this board.
Oreville ... knows more than just about anyone what "3 steps forward and 1 step backwards" means to building an amazing classic coin collection!
Most importantly, if we keep this thread going a little longer, GREAT COLLECTIONS should be able to sell another great coin that we can start a new thread about (their latest auction ends in about 10 minutes)
Wondercoin
Now take my previous quote and see the slight modification down below that many NON-RICH coin collectors including myself actually followed:
In fact, silver, mostly in the 90% US silver coins, has gone up from 3x to 5x face value to currently 23x face value. in the past 12 years.
<< <i>Text I agree with wondercoin and not dimeman. It is not just about investing in silver as an "investment" but also to increase your buying power to buy MORE classics as a collector. Of course, that does not always work and sometimes it does. From 1980 to 1990, it did not work. From 1990 to 2000 it worked better half of the time and half of the time it did not. From 2000 to now, it certainly worked. You see, while waiting to buy the classic coins I DO WANT and knowing I might have to wait 5 to 10 years to acquire them, what do I do? Leave all my coin money in the stock market or in the bank? Don't make me laugh. Silver has been BEST for me. >>
<< <i>>>>"but also to increase your buying power to buy MORE classics as a collector"<<<
I'm sorry, but these are the words of the "RICH".
Most collectors, including myself, haven't got the deep pockets to enable us to buy up GOLD and watch it go up so we can by coins!
You people are in a different world!
Not to further derail this thread... But I don't agree with this. If someone has a collection of 50 $20 coins and sells them, they might buy some $100 coins. Fast fwd a few years and the $100 coins sell and maybe a couple $1,000 coins may be on the radar. At some level, and this is different for everyone, one needs to consider the investment aspect.
Like everything else, this market has bifurcated itself leaving the bulk behind and allowing the top 5-20% to move forward. But the bulk of the unc/proof market has not yet recovered from the 1990-1996 crash. It's not a particularly stellar record. Hence it's not surprising to me that many of those gem Stack and Lovejoy dimes from 1990 are worth substantially less today, without even considering the substantial drop in the dollar's purchasing power since January 1990.
I prefer higher denomination pre-33 US gold coins that have a dual means to an end - that means MS62-64 $10's, and MS63-66 $20's that don't wander terribly far from the price of bullion. Nothing wrong with a pretty MS63 $10 Indian that sells for a 40-60% premium to spot. These are real numismatic coins too. And the average guy on the street would be much more impressed with a flashy $10 Indian than a gem toned seated dime. Gold is a world market. Rare US coins are a US-centric market.
your most recent post, no argument from me. Indeed, it is just a means to an ends. All your other comments make sense and agree that if I had owned such coin in 1990 I too will have kept it as well. The enjoyment of ownership can and often outweighs the growth of sitting with growing buying funds.
But in reality, no one had all the money to buy everything in 1990 or 1994. So we try to accumulate our buying funds as we go along after 1990 and 1994 and hope that we get a second chance to buy the coins we missed out on. A third of the time we save money by buying the coin many years later and 2/3 of the time we pay lots more. No one can predict the future.
"Wondercoin do you get my drift here? Apples and oranges"
Realone: I've said enough here unless you desire to keep this discussion going and, if so, I would be happy to address your latest volley. But, we can also end it with ... congratulations on your latest acquisition!!
Wondercoin
My "apples to apples" comp is classic coins to low mintage modern bullion; that is bullion where there are 2 ways to "win" ... from rising bullion prices and/or from the numismatic rise of the low mintage coins. Previous purchase examples of what I am discussing here could be gold Liberty spouse coins (2007-2010) or burnished gold eagles or even 2008 burnished platinum coins. Even the 2009 UHR is a good example, but that would be going for the incredible beauty (and demand) of a modern gold coin rather than the low mintage nature of the coin (but was equally as fine a play in my book). Where the low mintage numismatic play does not work (at least in the short run), the fallback is the bullion content; hence 2 ways to win. Case in point is the Jefferson Gold spouse which turned out to be a higher mintage at 19,000 - 20,000 than anyone expected in 2007 (as the lower mintage spouse coins of 2008 forward had not come out yet). Yet, the coin is beautiful, some may have been melted so the mintage may not be as high as reported and the coins are so widely distributed that it is still very tough to even locate a 25-50 coin position without difficulty quite often (at least from my personal experience). We'll see how the Jefferson spouse performs down the road as far as its "numismatic play" is concerned. But, while we wait that one out, the 8/30/11 Mint issue price of $410.95 is up about 325%+ in a little over five years (not too bad compared to the 1% and 2% CD rates over that same time period). Other coins dated 2008 and later have seen the "numismatic play" kick in a little bit and are up 400%, 500% and even higher. Yet, even a coin like the Jefferson spouse that has not seen a significant numismatic premium thus far is sporting a 325% gain in about 5 years. Not too bad.
This has nothing to do with real estate, opening a Subway restaurant, etc. That is "apples to oranges" with coins. Also, I am not discussing what coins I am personally buying today ... that would be too close to "investment advice" which I would never give on a message board. So, when you point out that these discussions are with 20-20 hindsight, I agree ... as I simply will not list a basket of coins here that I am personally buying today for my own account.
But, as Oreville and Roadrunner concur ... there are times ... even 10 and 20 year cycles where even the near thoughtless act of buying generic bullion gold or silver (as opposed to low mintage well thought out pieces) blew away the performance of classic collector coins. It appears that most Seated material over the past 20 years has not come close to matching the performance of even bullion gold or silver with the possible exception of Seated Dollars as a series and selected rarities. And, when these coins remain stagnant for decades the "lost opportunity cost" can be devastating ... I know because I have suffered it myself with some of my classic coins. Just the coin in this thread resulted in a loss of roughly $2,500 through holding it 22 years as opposed to close to a $40,000 gain with bullion (or perhaps way, way more than that with real estate as Realone suggests). On top of that consider this! In 1990, you could buy a gallon of gas for $1.16 so that Seated Dime was essentially worth 9,482 gallons of unleaded gas. I am paying about $3.90 a gallon today so that same gas would cost about $37,000. Yet, at an $8,500 value today, this dime buys 2,179 gallons of unleaded gas. The enjoyment of owning that single coin cost about 7,300 gallons of gas in my example to its owner during that time period! I have far worse examples of classic coins in my collection that I bought years ago that I am crushed in (and some non-bullion moderns as well to be sure).
Ok ... to sum it up ... with a longer time horizon I believe a logical goal of most collectors might be to not only enjoy their coins, but to not "go broke" while owning them. Even if your dime would have sold for exactly what it fetched in 1990, the buying power of those funds is way less as seen with my gasoline example. I agree that when you reach the point in your life that the money means next to nothing to you, that it is fine to ignore cycles, opportunity costs, etc., etc. and just to buy whatever you want and not worry about it. I am sure some collectors on these boards are at that point. But, as Dimeman points out "most" are probably not at that point, so it is probably not a bad thing to study the cycles, the alternatives in coins today and to try to plan a long term game plan to end up with the most classic and modern coins that you love by taking advantage of your current knowledge of these cycles and opportunities.
As our leader says ... have fun with your coins (and that goes for low mintage modern bullion coins just as much as the classics!)
As always, just my 2 cents
Wondercoin
Jim
investments. Maybe they were "more numismatic" when in 2006 MS65 $10 Indians were $7500 instead of the $3500 they cost today. Or maybe when the MS63 $10 Indians
were $2600+ in 2006-2007 (at $700/oz gold) they were more numismatic than they are today at less than half the price at $1715/oz gold. One wouldn't think that the price of bullion
should affect what it is or isn't numismatic. Certainly the bulk of hobbyists don't think that a common XF/AU Morgan silver dollar is not numismatic even if >90% of its value comes
from the intrinsic metal?
In fact, the coins I watch over there sell for solid prices these days.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Wondercoin,
again you are missing my point. The value of the Liberty Seated Dime is not $8,450. That is just the price I bought it for, it is worth far more, how much is unknown at this point in time.≈ >>
Actually the value of your seated coin is one bid less then you paid for it. When you go to sell it then you may or may not realize a gain. If you never sell it then the point becomes moot.
Again, very nice coin.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Realone. I think your dime is great. I said so in my last post. Not to mention cac certified. But if I read your analysis correctly this dime sold 22 years ago for $11000? A pile of $11000 in simple gold bullion is worth about $50000 today. What do you disagree on? >>
Two very interesting, and very different, themes going on in this thread. The new acquisition is great, but in hindsight, didn't prove to appreciate in value for its former owner. Maybe the new owner will have better luck.
Addressing WC's point, the former owner of the coin would certainly have fared better investing in bullion, but with the run in bullion prices, that begs the question of what is the better investment in 2012? Over the next 20 years will bullion, in your opinion, outpace collector coins such as this one? (I ask because I genuinely have no idea, and am curious).