Buyer complaining about duty fees
miwlvrn
Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hello,
I am a hobby seller, in the USA, not a dealer, only selling as much to just fund my personal collection as I am to turn a little profit on the side, but it is all in spare time as a hobby. That being said, I have probably shipped around 600 or so orders to Canada, over several years. Got a new one today that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with. I had a relatively newbie to ebay who has been on only about 11 months, with feedback of only 19, win a single-card auction for $200.00. Upon receipt of the item, he wrote saying complaining that he misunderstood the auction and believed he was getting two cards though my description specifically said the auction was for one (1) card and only one was pictured, because he was confused by the fact that the card number was number 2 from the set. Also, he is upset that he had to pay duty fees, which he claims came to $45.69 (hard to believe that much; I've requested to see a scan of that charge/bill but haven't received it yet) associated with the item upon delivery by Canadian post, though my auction description specifically states that duty fees imposed by the buyer's respective country's customs department are the sole responsibility of the buyer. His claim is that he is not satisfied with his purchase based on these 2 complaints, feeling that those 2 things make him "feel he way overpaid for the item", but he still wants to keep the item instead of return ship it to me w/ tracking in order to get a refund, and is instead requesting a partial refund of $45.69 for duty. I'm sure you can guess what my actual response would be in my head, but instead of responding with my true opinion, I'd rather try a little more diplomacy first. Has anyone encountered a ridiculous situation like this who would like to offer their advice?
On a side note, it really makes me appreciate the fact we don't pay duty on receipt here in the US.
I am a hobby seller, in the USA, not a dealer, only selling as much to just fund my personal collection as I am to turn a little profit on the side, but it is all in spare time as a hobby. That being said, I have probably shipped around 600 or so orders to Canada, over several years. Got a new one today that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with. I had a relatively newbie to ebay who has been on only about 11 months, with feedback of only 19, win a single-card auction for $200.00. Upon receipt of the item, he wrote saying complaining that he misunderstood the auction and believed he was getting two cards though my description specifically said the auction was for one (1) card and only one was pictured, because he was confused by the fact that the card number was number 2 from the set. Also, he is upset that he had to pay duty fees, which he claims came to $45.69 (hard to believe that much; I've requested to see a scan of that charge/bill but haven't received it yet) associated with the item upon delivery by Canadian post, though my auction description specifically states that duty fees imposed by the buyer's respective country's customs department are the sole responsibility of the buyer. His claim is that he is not satisfied with his purchase based on these 2 complaints, feeling that those 2 things make him "feel he way overpaid for the item", but he still wants to keep the item instead of return ship it to me w/ tracking in order to get a refund, and is instead requesting a partial refund of $45.69 for duty. I'm sure you can guess what my actual response would be in my head, but instead of responding with my true opinion, I'd rather try a little more diplomacy first. Has anyone encountered a ridiculous situation like this who would like to offer their advice?
On a side note, it really makes me appreciate the fact we don't pay duty on receipt here in the US.
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Comments
I wouldn't even entertain this. I'm calling BS on his claim anyways, he probably wasn't charged duty just taxes plus a handling fee. ...which has nothing to do with you. Even if he returns it he has to file to get his taxes back and prove with tracking the item was returned (in your interest that he sends with tracking).
Duty is always the obligation of the buyer.
I would NOT give a partial refund.
Good luck!
Joe
What is actually paid is sales tax, and possibly a small handling fee depending on the carrier.
For example I just received an order from Heritage worth $750.
I had to pay $90 in sales tax to the Provincial and Federal governments (~12%) plus a $10 fee to FedEx so the fee is nominal.
The sales tax is applied based entirely on what the declared value is according to the seller. I have never seen the declaration even questioned as custom officials do not carry price guides in their back pockets, they generally have no idea on retail or ebay values for trading cards. Having said that, common sense must prevail and if someone sends up a big, heavy case of expensive looking cards or a dozen Gretzky rookies all carefully packed up and declares a value of $20 bucks the chances are greater that an official will stop and give it a second glance. In my own experience of probably 700+ purchases from the US I've only paid tax on orders probaly 6 times and mostly from the auction houses as they never seem to fudge the customs forms. I would never complain if a seller declared the actual price though as that is what they are legally supposed to do.
The buyer needs a reality check and should leave ebay if he can't handle it.
u r in the right. politely say no refund.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Either way, it is my understanding that duty fees such as these are the responsibility of the buyer as a standard policy for any purchase, no matter where the source of the purchase, regardless of whether it is disclosed on the item description or not. I'm sure if you buy something on amazon, overstock, etsy, or anywhere really, you'll always be responsible for your own duty fees upon receipt/delivery. Anyone on here from Canada who would confirm that?
I'm in Canada by the way.
<< <i>Should have marked the customs slip as a gift ~ 20-.00 - 30.00 in value. Sure the ebayer is new, and unfamiliar with the duty part, but you may have lost a great customer for life. The government loses ~ whoopie / they shouldn't be involved anyways ............ >>
He would be hosed if he had to file an insurance claim though - not worth the risk to the seller. Not his fault the buyer was uneducated on his own countries policy.
<< <i>Should have marked the customs slip as a gift ~ 20-.00 - 30.00 in value. Sure the ebayer is new, and unfamiliar with the duty part, but you may have lost a great customer for life. The government loses ~ whoopie / they shouldn't be involved anyways ............ >>
Great idea, that way the seller gets screwed out out of the insured value since you can't insure the item higher than the declared value. Being a new Ebayer doesn't excuse ignorance. I seriously doubt he is potentially losing a great customer for life here. The guy is complaining about a tax he pays everyday that is administered by his government and blaming the seller for it.
Make sure you only communicate with him Through the E-Bay message system. This is so when he Negs you, you can contact E-Bay and they can look at the e-mails and see it is not your fault. Only way you will get the Neg removed. Be polite, but firm and reiterate what is in the listing so the E-Bay Monkey doesn't have to do much work and sometimes you can get the Neg removed.
Neil
Tell him also to learn the laws of his land.
I blocked any non-US bidders from my auctions. For the amount and type of stuff I sell (football, less than $20), its not worth it to go to the Post Office stand in line and fill out a customs form.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I have never had any issues with Canadian or non US bidders. My problem is that the changes in seller responsibility on ebay has made the risk/reward situation not attractive enough for me.
All good advice so far, thanks a lot for taking the time to reply.
Of note, the highest value allowed by USPS on the Registered international mail is the odd value of $47.33, no matter how much you put on as the article's value. Either way, for relatively high value items >$100, I use Registered for shipping internationally because I prefer the tracking number to continue through delivery, not an option w/ 1st class. For most international orders (<$100) I use the automatic label system through ebay which includes the customs form, and it has automatically filled the fields w/ 'merchandise' checked, as well as the value. That way I can ship from home and don't have to go to the post office. I don't like to modify the auto-fill form to change it to 'gift' or reduce the value for these items since it would not be worth potentially losing the ability to sell. For registered, you have to go to the post office, but there I still go w/ a legit label for insurance purposes. The buyer knows this and should be calculating taxes/duty/etc. into the cost of the item when choosing to spend their $. Also, I definitely don't mind losing the one customer over this. There's plenty more who don't cause trouble where it isn't warranted...
Here's buyer's message to me: "I was not happy regarding I thought I was getting two cards. Miss understood and I ended up getting billed 45.69 in shipping charges for duty. I think I way over paid for this card.I am not satified. Any suggestions. Maybe reinburst me for border charges?"
My reply: "Hello, Thanks for writing. I am happy to see that the item you purchased made it to you safely, though I am sorry to hear you might be less than satisfied. I'll try to work with you on this; I don't quite understand why you might have had the impression that there might be 2 items in the auction, since the item description stated "This auction is for one (1)...", only referred to the item in singular never plural, and only one card was pictured? Also, _shipping_ charges for which you were billed were only at-cost; the item description stated "Duty fees imposed by the buyer's respective country's Customs Department are the sole responsibility of the buyer.", as is standard for any purchase regardless of source of the purchase. I'd be interested in receiving an email from you with a scanned file of your duty charges imposed by Canada that you would have received upon receipt/delivery of the item."
No reply back from buyer and no request to return the item. Here's the feedback I received:
(Negative feedback rating) I had to pay 46 something for duty plus 15 for shipping
Now, I was under the impression that the feedback was required to reflect the transaction, not comment on government policies & laws of his home nation, of which neither buyer nor seller have control. Guess it wasn't enough that I shipped his item within an hour of his payment clearing, using USPS Registered International service, with shipping at cost with no markup, and providing tracking and insurance through the point of delivery, on an item that arrived safely and as described. I've got Top Rated Plus status, Bronze power seller, and 12 years on ebay. He's got a feedback of 19 and been on less than a year. I strongly bet ebay sides with the buyer instead of me in so far as they do not remove the unwarranted feedback despite all that information.
Sort of related, sort of not: I once made a purchase on a cards lot that was described as near mint. It was a lot so the pics weren't close enough to strongly get a good look at actual condition but I purchased based on seller's feedback. They turned out to be G-VG 2.5 to VG 3 condition when received. I asked for a refund siting item quality not matching description. Seller said grading was subjective, and denied the request. I left a feedback stating that cards were advertised as NM but received in much lower condition of G-VG / VG. My feedback was removed for abuse of feedback system, since that didn't qualify as "not as described" by the rules. ebay uses some sort of rule for not as described like you buy a book and you receive a hat I think. So, we'll see how my appeal of the feedback for me as a seller goes, but I don't expect common sense to prevail.
You should win this, you don't even need to have the 'buyer responsible for duty' line in your listings but the fact that you do will support the case even more to a Ebay rep.
If you are concerned about the neg you can reply to it in the feedback forum, just keep in mind he can reply to your reply (so he gets the last comment).
The OP can just get it removed by calling Ebay or report the abuse. They will automatically remove it as duty fees in the form of negative fb are not allowed.
<< <i>I thought the Feedback revision request requires the buyer to agree.....I don't think he will.
The OP can just get it removed by calling Ebay or report the abuse. They will automatically remove it as duty fees in the form of negative fb are not allowed. >>
oops... there's a link to report it to Ebay, you are right the first link is to mutually withdraw, not what I mean't.
Another angle here is that you got negative feedback because you didn't falsify a customs document...
"Customs declarations: Asking a seller to falsely declare an item as a gift on a customs form is considered to be encouraging illegal activity.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including Feedback removal, cancellation of cases in the Resolution Center, limits on account privileges (such as use of the eBay Buyer Protection program), limits on overall buying activity, and account suspension."
I would cut and paste what I took off the Ebay site above and email it to them and see what they say.
<< <i>We don't pay duty on trading cards, it's a common misconception. It's simply not applied to that type of item.
What is actually paid is sales tax, and possibly a small handling fee depending on the carrier.
For example I just received an order from Heritage worth $750.
I had to pay $90 in sales tax to the Provincial and Federal governments (~12%) plus a $10 fee to FedEx so the fee is nominal.
The sales tax is applied based entirely on what the declared value is according to the seller. I have never seen the declaration even questioned as custom officials do not carry price guides in their back pockets, they generally have no idea on retail or ebay values for trading cards. Having said that, common sense must prevail and if someone sends up a big, heavy case of expensive looking cards or a dozen Gretzky rookies all carefully packed up and declares a value of $20 bucks the chances are greater that an official will stop and give it a second glance. In my own experience of probably 700+ purchases from the US I've only paid tax on orders probaly 6 times and mostly from the auction houses as they never seem to fudge the customs forms. I would never complain if a seller declared the actual price though as that is what they are legally supposed to do.
The buyer needs a reality check and should leave ebay if he can't handle it. >>
I have over 1000 transactions from the USA and I don't recall ever paying duty on cards.
Rick
And if somebody looks at the NEG, they will completely understand.
The biggest problem as far as feedback is concerned, is that as a seller with great customer service, it is very upsetting to you to receive a NEG. It's more of a principal, and after a few days that will not bother you so much. I'm just saying this incase Ebay doesn't remove your NEG.
I worked out a resolution w/ ebay customer service. They said they'd explain to the buyer that feedback was required to reflect the transaction and that stating duty fees as a reason for a negative was not permitted. They'd give the buyer a chance to revise the feedback or they'd delete it if he declined. Subsequent to that, the feedback was revised to a neutral that said "the card arrived quickly". Good enough for me.
I realize the points made in the post above, thanks. It's not so bad to have an unjustified neg for others to read; when it starts to matter is if it reduces your top rated and/or power seller fees discount.
Thanks for reading and replying to this thread. Glad it's over and done with.