Something Every Collector Should See - Re: Counterfeit Awareness
MattyC
Posts: 1,335 ✭✭
I'm sure many of us are aware of the existence of the following...
1. Genuine PSA slabs that have been compromised, with lesser-quality or fake cards inserted into the slab.
2. Counterfeit PSA slabs/flips.
These are two major problems in the hobby that we should all be seeking to eradicate. The following linked video was brought to my attention by a fellow collector, and it is also being discussed on the BST forum (just thought for collector reference it should be here and titled for search on keyword "counterfeit").
This situation is obviously a strong case for buying from known, reputable ebay sellers and auction houses who will honor their sales and give refunds if a bad holder manages to make it past their own eye. We always hear questions as to why bigtime sellers command higher prices, and no doubt confidence against these fake or compromised slabs is partly why. No doubt choosing who we buy from is the surest and easiest way to avoid any headaches/heartbreaks regarding tampered or fake slabs.
PSA is great about honoring any mistakes they have made regarding a bad card getting by them-- but collectors should know this is not the same as dealing with fake or tampered slabs out in the market. PSA's policy (attested to by several collectors I personally know) is not to buy back tampered or counterfeit PSA slabs purchased from non-PSA-authorized dealers-- the same way any major brand does not buy its knockoffs purchased on the street. The logic being we should buy Rolex or Gucci from that brand's retail store and not the table set out on Canal Street. This is important to keep in mind, and something not everyone takes into account when making a purchase.
But this holder problem illuminated by the below link is also-- perhaps-- a case for innovation in the field of slabs/flips. Of course we all know that to some extent any advancement eventually begets its counterpunch/countermeasure, but that is why it is incumbent on the good guys to be on the vanguard, one step ahead of the opposition. Say what we will about the aesthetics of the slabs, which we discussed earlier, there can be no denying some slabs are sturdier and less vulnerable than others.
This fake/tampered slab issue is why I think it is also important to have high-value items reviewed at PSA, especially when not purchased from known names in the hobby who care about their rep as opposed to a one-time score. I personally made a bee-line down to Santa Ana with my first major card a ways back, to have it reviewed and reholdered, and it brought great piece of mind.
In the end it really does come down to the individual collector to avoid being scammed or cheated: we have to be as educated and wary as possible.
Fake PSA cards
1. Genuine PSA slabs that have been compromised, with lesser-quality or fake cards inserted into the slab.
2. Counterfeit PSA slabs/flips.
These are two major problems in the hobby that we should all be seeking to eradicate. The following linked video was brought to my attention by a fellow collector, and it is also being discussed on the BST forum (just thought for collector reference it should be here and titled for search on keyword "counterfeit").
This situation is obviously a strong case for buying from known, reputable ebay sellers and auction houses who will honor their sales and give refunds if a bad holder manages to make it past their own eye. We always hear questions as to why bigtime sellers command higher prices, and no doubt confidence against these fake or compromised slabs is partly why. No doubt choosing who we buy from is the surest and easiest way to avoid any headaches/heartbreaks regarding tampered or fake slabs.
PSA is great about honoring any mistakes they have made regarding a bad card getting by them-- but collectors should know this is not the same as dealing with fake or tampered slabs out in the market. PSA's policy (attested to by several collectors I personally know) is not to buy back tampered or counterfeit PSA slabs purchased from non-PSA-authorized dealers-- the same way any major brand does not buy its knockoffs purchased on the street. The logic being we should buy Rolex or Gucci from that brand's retail store and not the table set out on Canal Street. This is important to keep in mind, and something not everyone takes into account when making a purchase.
But this holder problem illuminated by the below link is also-- perhaps-- a case for innovation in the field of slabs/flips. Of course we all know that to some extent any advancement eventually begets its counterpunch/countermeasure, but that is why it is incumbent on the good guys to be on the vanguard, one step ahead of the opposition. Say what we will about the aesthetics of the slabs, which we discussed earlier, there can be no denying some slabs are sturdier and less vulnerable than others.
This fake/tampered slab issue is why I think it is also important to have high-value items reviewed at PSA, especially when not purchased from known names in the hobby who care about their rep as opposed to a one-time score. I personally made a bee-line down to Santa Ana with my first major card a ways back, to have it reviewed and reholdered, and it brought great piece of mind.
In the end it really does come down to the individual collector to avoid being scammed or cheated: we have to be as educated and wary as possible.
Fake PSA cards
0
Comments
The scammers will always be there. It's unfortunate that collectors must educate themselves with what the flips & slabs should look like.
Why is it so hard for PSA to change holders? Shoebox style. Never heard a fake bgs slab/flip. End of story.
What are you going to try to say next? People sign other people's names?
WHAT? THEY DO!!!!!!
At least Wrestling is real, at least in the 1980's and early 1990's. Honky was the Greatest Intercontential Champion ever.
Thank's alot, you just ruined my entire childhood.
My entire life is fake!!!!!!
Dave
<< <i>Cocoa, it's fine. >>
Thank you Maurice, in the short time I have been on the board, I have come to value your opinion.
My concern was the spacing on the label and the lack of the 2 solder marks on the bottom, but after looking at more examples, I did fine a couple more. It appears that PSA changes a few items about their holders periodicly. I found changes in size of the "PSA", changes in size of the barcode, the solder spots, spacing of the letters & line of the label, and of course, multiple backs.
was graded between 1997-2000.
Does the card look 'mint' to you when examining it closely
with a loupe? That should answer your question right there
as far as legitimacy.
<< <i>Judging by the font style on your holder, that card
was graded between 1997-2000.
Does the card look 'mint' to you when examining it closely
with a loupe? That should answer your question right there
as far as legitimacy. >>
Yes it does, there is no white or wear what so ever on the corners. Edges are super clean. My only problem with the card are the 2 fisheyes but that by itself would not lower the grade, I don't beleive. Also, I don't think they would pick a 1975 Carter RC to run a scam, more likely a higher dollar card I would think?
I think you are correct about the grading time also. There appears to be deffinate differences from period to period.
<< <i>Why is it so hard for PSA to change holders? Shoebox style. Never heard a fake bgs slab/flip. End of story. >>
I'm sure PSA has looked into this.
Bottom line is: PSA doesn't think a change will be profitable to them.
Even with pollution like this on the market, PSA is the gold standard.
When these counterfeits and tampered slabs start hurting their bottom line, then, and only then, will they make a change.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Are there any other books you would recommend that focus on counterfeits?
<< <i>Also, I don't think they would pick a 1975 Carter RC to run a scam, more likely a higher dollar card I would think? >>
this type of thinking is how people get scammed.
it's never wrong to get yourself educated. scammers will have a tougher time fighting through the power of your intelligence.
you now know a little more than you did about your holder.
Not really trying to draw attention to the sheer existence of fake holders/slabs or switched cards within legit yet compromised slabs; as I said up top I'm sure we all know about that. What I felt might not be as widely known is how PSA is by no means a safety net against those two problems. Some might confuse PSA's willingness to buy back a bad card in their holder ONLY if it slipped past them with a willingness to buy back counterfeit or compromised holders. It's therefore very important to either know how to spot the fake/breached slabs or to at least only buy from the most reputable sources.
With respect to compromised slabs, spots of frosting and irregular spacing of solder/notches are actually common with authentic PSA slabs. I've been down to get items reholdered and they were handed to me literally warm off the press with patches of frosting. It's more about uniform frosting along an entire edge as opposed to patches, but in the case of well-made fakes frosting becomes moot. Bottom line is that buying from an unassailable source is a great way to mitigate this risk and potential headache, or getting a review of a card if possible pending a really expensive acquisition.
<< <i>
<< <i>Also, I don't think they would pick a 1975 Carter RC to run a scam, more likely a higher dollar card I would think? >>
this type of thinking is how people get scammed.
it's never wrong to get yourself educated. scammers will have a tougher time fighting through the power of your intelligence.
you now know a little more than you did about your holder. >>
Yes, you are 100% correct, I do feel I know a little more now than I did before. I can't say that I never looked at a holder when deciding to buy or not, but I now feel I can be a little more confident in knowing what to look for.
<< <i>I just returned from a cruise and having days of down time I read a couple of books, The Card and Mint Condition. Both mainly discussed the history of baseball cards and both devoted a small amount to counterfeits and card doctoring.
Are there any other books you would recommend that focus on counterfeits? >>
I have read them both and they are both excellent, although they do some overlapping. I started reading "House of Cards" which focuses on card collecting. Because it is going over the history, it is also discussing counterfeiting, as it seems part of the hobby's history (the reason for Upper Deck's existence).