What to do while waiting for FrankenStorm? Why, buy **TWO** BLACKSMITH TOKEN!

ambro51

I love eBay. Now that I've had a few days to begin studying Canadian Blacksmith Tokens, I am impressed by their scarcity. With the exception of Wood 33, the one I first bought, these are quite difficult to locate even with the resources of eBay and the Internet. Maybe I've seen a dozen for sale? They are making the Vermonts look "common". ~~~~~. When Wood cataloged these in 1910 frankly even he seemed baffled by them. In trying to classify them, he found many to group together either through metal composition or muling. This NewP is part of the second group, which resemble the first group but are cruder and struck on thin brass planchets. This piece is Wood 14 BL-10. Despite its shocking appearance I think this grades VG. For the rarity and esoteric interest here I think this was a great buy for $26. After having routinely spent 3 and 4 figures for Vermonts.... This is a real treat! So Fellow Numismatists feast your eyes on this Unusual and Esoteric piece. Canadian Blacksmith Token Wood 14 BL-10, struck circa 1830-40. While this coin IS worn the line drawing of 14 shows us how little "detail" actually EVER existed on the coin. They were made to look old and worn, fresh off the die!

STONE

Interesting, cool, looking forward to learning more

ambro51

I had never paid attention to Canadian coins and can't say I'm interested in anything other than these Blacksmiths....and it's interesting that out of 18 eBay pages of just Canadian Tokens there were only two Blacksmiths listed...such is their relative rarity. The Taylor catalog has a whole collection but alas that's one of the catalogs I've yet to acquire. I'd really love it if someone with that catalog could post a picture of the rarity table for these, it's in the Taylor catalog. Yes these are Canadian but just as you get Camadian coins in change the further north you go, these saw occasional use in new England and have been dug in Vermont Maine and New York State.

DCW

Very, very interesting Ambro.
What were these tokens used for, commerce? Ive never heard of a blacksmith token before.

Shamika

Yes, we need more information. You've piqued my curiosity.

Shamika

Here we go.

Shamika

Blacksmith Coppers - Introduction

ambro51

They were counterfeits in a sense but they cover a wide range from crude uniface pieces with bust designs or harps and include reused HTT dies on hand cut planchets. No one fully understands them... There is an old story of a drunk blacksmith around Montreal who would stamp out a few dollars worth at a time and spend them for his jollys. Truly an odd series but well cataloged so it is highly Collectable. I've managed to print out a few web resources such as Woods 1910 article with the line drawings and the ND website material. Google is limited as not much is written. Stacks has sold a few of these and those auctions are archived.

Shamika

Sort of like coin boards: They can be super rare and still very cheap.

ambro51

The Canadian Government, Banks... Tried to get all old English and Irish coins and counterfeits (these) out of circulation so few survive. Wood 33 is possibly an English evasion counterfeit half pence and not Canadian made at all but they are found there. They easily outnumber all the rest maybe 80% are 33? I don't know yet I'm still learning but printing out those two articles you linked was most helpful. eBay completed auctions was quite helpful too with great images and quite an insight into the sweet prices.

Shamika

I'm sure putting together a complete set is impossible (again, sort of like coin boards), but how many varieties are known? I love rare esoteric stuff like this.

ambro51

So just to make things sweeter I just bought another one! That's a nice days work eh? This one is Wood 4 BL-3. This is a copper strike and has nice reverse detail. and here is the line drawing.

Shamika

<< <i>This one is Wood 4 BL-3. This is a copper strike and has nice reverse detail. >>



You do realize how hilarious that sounds.

DeliaBug

Here's a scan of the table from the Taylor sale. Very interesting pieces.

Mercfan

Thanks for the information and images, Ambro!

I have at least a couple of Blacksmith coppers, one I'm quite confident is a Wood-11 and another I'm sure is a Wood 12. I found them in an old cloth bag of large coppers (about three dozen worn copper pieces mostly with early 19th century dates) that I picked up at a second-hand store earlier this year. The lady who sold me the bag of coppers said she had purchased it from a man who found it in a barn "up north," which probably means somewhere in northern NY between Syracuse and the Canadian border.

I'm quite encouraged that you judge the one you just purchased to be VG, as mine show even more detail without any marks.

The bag also contained a bunch of Canadian tokens, a Vermonts copper, a New Jersey copper, a bunch of old Irish coins/tokens, a Machins Mills copper (or it may be a cast counterfeit of a Georgivs II 1/2 penny), some hard times tokens, and about a dozen that I haven't been able to identify.

It's fascinating stuff, and I'd welcome any additional information about these issues that you or anyone else cares to post!

Mercfan

And now, based on Wood's sketches, my hunch is that my third example is a Wood 16 or 17. The reverse shows tons of detail; the obverse is quite faint.

ambro51

That's a great score, a bag of old Coppers. People "dream" about that happening! So two Blacksmiths out of a total of how many? I cannot see any more than a few percent overall survival on these. I have read where the Wood 33 must have produced by the tons so many survive...but being that piece is possibly an English import that point is meaningless ~~~thanks for the Rarity scale . That certainly helps to put the collectability in order. I can see how 30 varieties could be a reachable goal. I'm sure there are quite a few entrenched specialists who trade some of these on a much higher level.

coachbedford

There's actually one Woods Blacksmith Token that some believe was actually struck in Vermont-- has a rather thick headed George on the obverse and a brittania figure on the reverse who hold out her olivebranch with a very stiff, straight arm

Mercfan

<< <i>That's a great score, a bag of old Coppers. People "dream" about that happening! So two Blacksmiths out of a total of how many? I cannot see any more than a few percent overall survival on these.q]

My three Blacksmiths came from a bag of more than 100 pieces. Many are foreign coppers that I really haven't taken a good look at: Canadian Bank tokens, British large pennies and half pennies, French dix centimes, dos reales coppers (Argentina?), some Mexican, Greek, Asian, US and Canadian large cents, etc. Some are holed, some bent, some worn almost smooth. Mostly pre-1900.

It appears to me that the bag I bought contained a mix of pieces that circulated along both sides of the St. Lawrence River during the same period in the mid-19th century, plus a bunch of other foreign "novelties" (not all copper) that someone added to the mix much later.

Very interesting stuff about which I know little.