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Fighting words from CRO

RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
From today's Road Report:

Then headed back and immediately sold 2 Hawaiian Quarters, in PCGS MS66 and MS64 respectively, and both CAC’ed, for the exact same prices. A very nice illustration that, as we all already know, grades and stickers are merely part of the equation.

How dare John intimate that slabs and stickers are not the be-all and end-all of coin prices. image
My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132

Comments

  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I liked that. I tend to pay for eye appeal.
    JR Newsletter Online Edition
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,270 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How dare John intimate that slabs and stickers are not the be-all and end-all of coin prices. image >>


    How dare he leave out the most important part -- the color of the label!
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • GeorgeKelloggGeorgeKellogg Posts: 1,251 ✭✭
    Go John, Go! Bottom line: One can't describe all of the aesthetic qualities of a beautiful coin with a number and a sticker.
    "Clamorous for Coin"
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bottom line: One can't describe all of the aesthetic qualities of a beautiful coin with a number and a sticker. >>



    POTD! imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    John, as a friend and as a dealer I caution you....

    Not only does this confuse collectors about slab and sticker premiums, not only do you undermine a pricing structure which both TPG's and dealers have struggled for 25+ years to construct and successfully colluded to support and maintain, but, by announcing these two transactions in public, and specifically here, well-intentioned as you would be, you've still screwed the pooch.

    You gonna have a whole lot of 'splaining to do. image

    No good deed goes unpunished.imageimage

    Quite a few here will praise you to the skies, albeit for a hat or two, no more.....
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ColJessup, after that dramatic display of collecting emotion and despair, RYK was very moved. image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CJ,
    So this is all about beans? Either the 66 had a brown bean or the 64 had a gold bean??
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,021 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Then headed back and immediately sold 2 Hawaiian Quarters, in PCGS MS66 and MS64 respectively, and both CAC’ed, for the exact same prices. A very nice illustration that, as we all already know, grades and stickers are merely part of the equation"

    If grades and stickers are merely part of the equation,....well what are the other parts of the equation?

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • vibr0nicvibr0nic Posts: 614 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If grades and stickers are merely part of the equation,....well what are the other parts of the equation? >>



    I think the coin MIGHT be part if it. Sometimes. image
    I like large size currency and silver dollars.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That would have never happened if Dave was still thereimage

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,021 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If grades and stickers are merely part of the equation,....well what are the other parts of the equation? >>



    I think the coin MIGHT be part if it. Sometimes. image >>

    The coin has already been vetted by receiving professional grades and stickers.... so I repeat my question....

    What are the other parts of the equation?
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin has already been vetted by receiving professional grades and stickers.... >>

    You mean coins, once graded and stickered, are guaranteed to never have their grades changed upon resubmission? Really?
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,021 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The coin has already been vetted by receiving professional grades and stickers.... >>

    You mean coins, once graded and stickered, are guaranteed to never have their grades changed upon resubmission? Really? >>

    I did not say that potato head.
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll take this taste-test sight-unseen:


    Give me the PCGS MS66 with bean behind door number 1 please. image

    Maybe the MS64 had been in the family of King Kamehameha since 1883? I've never paid 2 grades worth of "eye appeal" for a Hawaiian quarter, thought that was
    more the realm of toner silver dollars or classic commens.

    I see a trend much like the one I saw on the auction circuit back in the early days of PCGS and NGC. That is, considering it a badge of honor to pay the most
    money possible for a raw coin because you envisioned it in a higher holder that anyone else dared. You were allowed to wear that badge at least until the coin was graded.
    A similar game today is buying the lowest graded holder possible with golden bean assigned. Another badge of honor that certifies that the owner was willing to fly where
    no one else dared.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The coin has already been vetted by receiving professional grades and stickers.... >>

    You mean coins, once graded and stickered, are guaranteed to never have their grades changed upon resubmission? Really? >>

    I did not say that potato head. >>



    bidask, I think that member likes to be addressed as mister potato head imageimage

    RYK, Shame on you for hurting ColonelJessup's feelings as I didn't have a chance to read the Gettysburg address he posted prior to his edit image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • vibr0nicvibr0nic Posts: 614 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin has already been vetted by receiving professional grades and stickers.... so I repeat my questiom... What are the other parts of the equation? >>



    So the number on a slab with a sticker is the end-all, be-all for a coin's appeal, and thus, its price? Well, OK then.
    I like large size currency and silver dollars.
  • njcoincranknjcoincrank Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    All I can say is that I saw both coins and they both were worth the money. Very nice coins (as one would expect from CRO) indeed.

    njcc
    www.numismaticamericana.com
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The coin has already been vetted by receiving professional grades and stickers.... >>

    You mean coins, once graded and stickered, are guaranteed to never have their grades changed upon resubmission? Really? >>

    I did not say that potato head. >>

    Fair enough. So- could you tell us what you *did* say when vibr0nic posted that "I think the coin MIGHT be part if it. Sometimes." and you took the coin out of discussion by posting "The coin has already been vetted by receiving professional grades and stickers" and then repeated your request for "other parts of the equation"?
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>..... RYK, Shame on you for hurting ColonelJessup's feelings as I didn't have a chance to read the Gettysburg address he posted prior to his edit image >>



    No pain, no gain.

    RYK popped my denial about the the adverse effect of bad publicity, or even the barest whiff of brimstone wafting about. It's not the first time people thought they smelled something. Dreck... [Scheisse.... The state of Denmark. A coverup. Whether it existed or not. I had not realized how much and how far I had fallen under the muckraking spell of DaveE. Luckily my spelling escaped unimpaired.

    I decided my story was too potentially explosive to bring to the light of day.

    Why further illuminate a process of devolution; an inevitable entropic degradation of trust in our hobby and our marketplace. We're already picking up speed down the slippery slope. Why further accelerate the decline in our moral credibility, specious or otherwise, by washing our dirty linen in public.

    The 66 guy clearly screwed. Bought an overgraded POS only worth 64 money, no mattter what the holder said.image
    The 64 guy clearly screwed. Hosed to the tune of paying of 66 money. image

    The spin doctors will soon be bringing up the coin doctors, though I have no idea, whatsoever, what, at all, either of these have to do with any of this.

    It can only get worse. And so it doesimage

    There was an upgrade involved. image

    I didn't think it was right to associate John's name with anything having to do with the further evocation of paranoid rantings and megalomanaical overcompensations we sometimes find here.

    We all know he's invested too much in hats to sully his good name.image

    I did not have time to use Snark-Chek for this post.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CJ, it's nice to see that you haven't lost your touch.image
    And I think that you should have left your first post as is---it was entertaining.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>CJ, it's nice to see that you haven't lost your touch.image
    And I think that you should have left your first post as is---it was entertaining. >>



    image

    ColonelJessup, Must be a riot in a classroom setting imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It might even be worth taking his ANA summer course next year, just to sit at the feet of the master and gaze up in awe.image
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭


    << <i>What are the other parts of the equation? >>



    Assuming this was a serious question, I'll bite:

    Two coins, while having the TECHNICAL attributes for a certain grade in a certain slab, may have wildly different aesthetic characteristics and appeal.

    We don't know the era of the slabs in question. Given gradeflation, it is quite possible (or even probable) that a coin in a PCGS slab from the early days might be sufficiently undergraded (technically) by today's comparatively lax standards to warrant a green or even gold bean, yet might not be as AESTHETICALLY appealing as a coin in a lower-grade slab.

    As previously mentioned, technical grade is only part of the equation... and depending on the coin, series, or your collecting focus, might not even be the largest factor in the equation.

    It could come down to toning, surfaces, skin, die clashes, strike, or any other aspect of the coin.
    Numismotography

    1/2 Cents

    U.S. Revenue Stamps

    image
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 14,021 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What are the other parts of the equation? >>



    Assuming this was a serious question, I'll bite:

    Two coins, while having the TECHNICAL attributes for a certain grade in a certain slab, may have wildly different aesthetic characteristics and appeal.

    We don't know the era of the slabs in question. Given gradeflation, it is quite possible (or even probable) that a coin in a PCGS slab from the early days might be sufficiently undergraded (technically) by today's comparatively lax standards to warrant a green or even gold bean, yet might not be as AESTHETICALLY appealing as a coin in a lower-grade slab.

    As previously mentioned, technical grade is only part of the equation... and depending on the coin, series, or your collecting focus, might not even be the largest factor in the equation.

    It could come down to toning, surfaces, skin, die clashes, strike, or any other aspect of the coin. >>

    Thank you for an intelligent response.
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I assume this was the 64................If so, I understand the price. MJ

    image
    image
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I assume this was the 64................If so, I understand the price. MJ

    image
    image >>



    It sure looks like eye candy... Heck the reverse design even has two lollypops! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,538 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No matter who rules, it's the market which dictates.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭✭
    I have to admit that when I saw this thread title I had no idea what I was going to find.

    So of course I relieved to see that it was merely this topic, about an RR comment I did not think was terribly controversial as evidenced by the fact that in nearly every auction in any venue, coins in the same grade holders and with the same sticker status sell for vastly different prices.

    John Agre

    Coin Rarities Online
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for this honest, forthright and clear analysis of events. I predict the questions and controversy will disappear within another 10 or 15 postsimage
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have to admit that when I saw this thread title I had no idea what I was going to find.

    So of course I relieved to see that it was merely this topic, about an RR comment I did not think was terribly controversial as evidenced by the fact that in nearly every auction in any venue, coins in the same grade holders and with the same sticker status sell for vastly different prices. >>


    There you go again!
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the piece imaged above was the 64, then it's painfully obvious why it brought the same money... it's NICE, and a BIG undergrade at 4 IMO.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012

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