Ebay bidding situation help

copperhunter

Last night I had bid on a coin and backed it up with another bid, while already ahead. I did this because I knew that I was not going to be around when the auction ended. So, I ended up winning the auction at a price identical to my maximum bid. But, I received an email notification a few minutes prior to the listings end stating that there had been a retracted bid, blah, blah, blah. When I got home, I looked at the bidding, and someone with 1400+ feedback started bidding at $2 increments about 5 minutes prior to auction end, until they ended up bypassing my bid. Then they filed for a bid retraction. And the reason for the retraction...."entered wrong amount"!! Yeah right. Does this seem to be grounds for partnership/shill bidding? If so, how do I go about reporting this?

mbogoman

Smells very fishy to me. I would contact Ebay before I paid anything.

djm

Sorry but your story does not make sense.

1) If the bidder retracted his bid then all of his bids should have been retracted not just the last one.
2) You are not allowed to retract bids with in 6 hours of the auctions end.

You should call ebay customer service and request the auction be voided as they did not follow their own rules.

copperhunter

It does smell very fishy! And yes, this bidder in question placed 7-8 bids within 5-6 minutes of auction end. I wasn't aware of the limitations on when a bid could be retracted, so that could be another angle. So, a phone call would be best? It seems as though the evidence was left at the crime scene. If his bid was $1 below mine, he would be forced to bid $1 above mine. So stating that he entered the wrong amount is not even possible, unless he wanted to bid more.

DorkGirl

Next time use a proxy bidder.

derryb

link to auction? would like to see bidding history

Tiny

<< <i>Next time use a proxy bidder. >>





What is a "proxy bidder" and how would that have effected the out come here?

copperhunter

Auction in question

Barndog

<< <i>Smells very fishy to me. I would contact Ebay before I paid anything. >>



I agree, especially after seeing the auction link. Everything happened as you said...someone was out there actively working to find your max bid and then once found, they retracted the one that would have beaten your max. Don't pay a dime

derryb

second highest bidder has a 63% bidding activity with the seller. that's pretty high, especially since bidder has a high feedback number. If he is the one who retracted his bid, it only retracts his last bid. His bidding activity shows he has only retracted one bid. Looks like a good case for shilling, especially since he ran your bid up in small increments, then backed off with a retraction. I would hold off payment and call ebay. If Ebay agrees with the shilling, your hammer price should be only $53 since all bidding after that was between you and him. Review of his completed sales and feedback does not flush out any recent activity between the seller and you apparent shiller.

this is why I wait until the last 10 seconds to throw in a manual bid that is equal to the highest amount I am willing to pay for the coin. If I don't win, it's because I would have had to pay more than I'm willing to pay.

edited to add: You might contact the seller and inform him there will be a delay in payment because "you believe ebay messed up the final bid because of the bid retraction from another bidder" and that you will be calling them to straiten it out. This way you make no accusations directly to him and if he is guilty of shill bidding he will be getting right back to you (to avoid shining a light on the transaction with ebay) with a resolution that will probably be to your advantage. I'd still call ebay.

copperhunter

Thanks for the input fellas!

Oh I get the logic for waiting to the end. I never suspected that someone would be this blatant about it. I have had this happen before, but in slightly subtler ways, where a little digging was required to spot it. The retraction is like leaving the glove behind at the scene of the crime....

derryb

Chris, note the addition to my last post.

copperhunter

Thanks derryb! Seems like good strategy. When I return from my morning appointment, I will try this approach.

DorkGirl

Sniping with Gixon, JustSnipe, or any of the dozens of others.

TomB

I would not pay for this lot under these conditions. The shill has 63% bidding activity with this seller over the past 30-days and bid multiple times to drive you up.

derryb

keep in mind that the 63% bidding activity with that seller is only for the last 30 days. If suspected bidder bid on only two or three coins in the last 30 days, it is very possible to have a 63% activity with one seller and not be guilty of shilling.

piecesofme

this is why I wait until the last 10 seconds to throw in a manual bid that is equal to the highest amount I am willing to pay for the coin. If I don't win, it's because I would have had to pay more than I'm willing to pay.

This...and if you can't be there for the end of the auction, so be it. There'll be another one of these come around in no time.

copperhunter

Message sent to buyer. I will keep those interested and entertained with the outcome.

ModernEagles

I use http://auctionsniper.com if I can't put the bid in myself. Otherwise I wait for the last 6-7 seconds before the end of the auction. Good luck this definitely looks like shill bidding.

okracer

Again, I thought a bidder can not retract a bid that close to auction end.....Any other comments on this?

ETA:

He can only retract a bid if "Wrong amount" was significantly wrong, such as $90 instead of $9.

In his case he went from $64 to $66. You can easily make the case by his small bidding increments that there was no "mistake".

I would call the ebay rep and clearly desribe what happened.

epcjimi1

<< <i>Again, I thought a bidder can not retract a bid that close to auction end.....Any other comments on this? >>



If the listing ends in less than 12 hours you can retract the bid only if you retract the bid within one hour of placing it.

Ebay bid retraction policy here

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>Again, I thought a bidder can not retract a bid that close to auction end.....Any other comments on this? >>



the comment i have is that the time ended and time of the last bid seem around 6 hours apart, no?

remember people, you can always return an item. if you think someone is up to no good, it is a good route to go as it makes it harder/longer for them to submit a second chance offer and/or re-list item(s) once you drag out the 14 day return policy.

it is dirty and while i don't practice these things doesn't mean i can come up with some doozies.

also when someone retracts a bid i'm pretty sure it is against policy to NOT enter another bid.
.

fc

anytime your highest bid is walked up like that and the last bid is retracted.. i call
that a sham. I would be upset also.

DorkGirl

That's exactly why I never do it. I may place a small bid to "hold my place", but will never bid high and let some other idiot keep bidding until I am at my limit. It's all about the snipe. If it's over my bid at the time, no problem.

notwilight

If I could live wihtout the coin, I would tell the seller I changed my mind and ask him to cancel the auction. I would let him rant a long time and threaten all he could threaten before I told him the real reason I changed my mind was shill bidding.

He can't really do anything to make you pay. In fact, I'll start a thread on what happened to me. Watch for it. --Jerry

Casman

What am I missing here? Isn't it just as likely the bidder was a nut vs. a $9 dollar event?

amwldcoin

I had ther same thing happen to me as the OP with a major seller on ebay...who passed away recently. I reported it to ebay....negotiated with the seller...and nothing...not nada! You know why ebay wouldn't act???? Because the seller was paying the FV Fees on the lots his shill bidder won. NO,IF's BUT's and or DOUBTS!



<< <i>Sorry but your story does not make sense.

1) If the bidder retracted his bid then all of his bids should have been retracted not just the last one.
2) You are not allowed to retract bids with in 6 hours of the auctions end.

You should call ebay customer service and request the auction be voided as they did not follow their own rules. >>

Swampboy

<< <i>That's exactly why I never do it. I may place a small bid to "hold my place", but will never bid high and let some other idiot keep bidding until I am at my limit. It's all about the snipe. If it's over my bid at the time, no problem. >>

19Lyds

I cannot believe that people are so stupid and I hope eBay does something about this.

Justlooking

It seems odd, but I don't think it's a shill. I looked at some of his other completed auctions and didn't see a pattern. It wouldn't make sense to cheat one person out of $10. Now, if he had a system where he cheated 100 people out of $10, then there would be something rotten in the state of Denmark.

copperhunter

Here is the conversation between me and the seller that took place yesterday afternoon:

Hello. I will be delaying payment for this item. I believe that eBay did not value my final bid properly due to the bid retraction coming in from another bidder near the end of the auction listed. I will be contacting eBay to get this sorted out, and you should receive payment once I receive a satisfactory explanation.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Chris


Seller's Response:
Hello Chris,
No problem as I see what you mean. I would ask that they eat the difference from the bidder's last bid if I were you and I think they will oblige.
Thanks, H***

Not what I anticipated. Yes, it is a only a $10 event, but it is more about principle, and my general frustration with eBay both on the buying and selling sides lately!

derryb

seller sounds on the up and up. Unless ebay thinks there is shilling do not expect them to remove all of the other bidders bids, just the one he cancelled. Keep in mind that there may have been no shill bidding and the other bidder legitimately cancelled his last bid for reasons only he knows. If you end up paying what you bid it is not more than you were willing to pay for the coin or you would not have bid it.

copperhunter

Story of my life - bad luck! Well thanks everyone for the help/opinions.

mustangmanbob

Since the seller can see the other bidder's full info, if you suspect shill bidding, ask for the full ebay id, and you can see where he is located, what his activity is, etc.

I will sometimes be heavy bidder on a person, as I am trying to win a bunch of items and save on shipping costs.