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I think that American Silver Eagle dollars are going to be the Morgan Dollars of future collectors

coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ok....there I said it. They have MS, Proofs, Reverse proofs, Varieties.
So what If they didn't circulate like the Morgans did........

The obverse has one of my favorite designs but only bigger!


Discuss and debateimage



edited today to add:

I think I should have made my original statement clearer. Yes I like them and I have money invested in them but not to the extent of
a good amount of others I know. I also do not mean to say that the Morgan dollar will drop by the wayside. Rather the next collectable silver dollar.

What I meant by the original statement is that I can see todays Morgans reaching the prices at which the Seated and other older large silver dollars
are at today, so the Morgan dollars will always be popular and I love the design as well.

But for the new and middle collector the ASE with varieties and collector mint marks along with the proofs has a high possibility of becoming the
next collectable silver dollar coin. The only other large silver dollar coin is the Ike and while there is a large collector base it seems to me that
the ASE might be a more known to the beginning and mid collector base.




image






«13

Comments

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think that American Silver Eagle dollars are going to be the Morgan Dollars of future collectors >>



    I agree and have said so here several times in the past.

    Though I was with you until you said Morgans circulated image

    Sure, some of them circulated, but the vast majority of them were not minted for circulation and the most collectible ones did not circulate.
  • tightbudgettightbudget Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭
    Sorry but I don't think so. What makes Morgans so appealing to many is not just because of their size and silver content but because of their history as a medium of exchange.

    Since ASEs never circulated, there's just not much history to them at all. For that reason, many find them to be very boring (though they can tone very nicely).
  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭
    That 1990 Proof is gorgeous.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's possible as there is no real contemporary alternative.
    Many happy BST transactions
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think that American Silver Eagle dollars are going to be the Morgan Dollars of future collectors >>



    I agree and have said so here several times in the past.

    Though I was with you until you said Morgan's circulated image

    Sure, some of them circulated, but the vast majority of them were not minted for circulation and the most collectible ones did not circulate. >>






    Well......I figured if I said they did not or we're not minted for circulation, people might get up in my faceimage

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ASE's might be popular at some future date, but I think Morgans will be the Morgans of the future. There's no shortage of them and unless bullion prices go completely berserk, the nice ones aren't about to disapear anytime in the next century or two. I'm also convinced that 90/10 silver/copper will hold up better over the long term than .999 silver in terms of surface preservation.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the last comment. There are Soooooo many Morgans out there. They will be around forever. More Morgans than there will ever be collectors. Now PQ Morgans are the exception, but our hobby includes collectors that look for all grades. These boards tend to lean towards the higher end collectors as a rule, but in the real world there are a lot of circulation collectors that are trying to fill Whitman folders with nice circulated examples.
    These bullion pieces, while beautiful, do not hit that mark.
    Now don't get me wrong, these will always be collected, but not the same.
    I have hundreds of mint sealed ASE's and so do a lot of others.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭
    Personally, I think that the Morgan Dollar is popular, like so many other coins, because of experiences folks had with it as youths back in the late 50's and earl 60's.
    How many current collectors got a Morgan from their folks as a souvenier from Tahoe or one of the many other Nevada Gaming Houses. How many were amazed by the sheer size of the coin and the fact that "they don't have these down at the local grocery store!"

    What kids are precluded from doing as youths, can sometimes spill over into their adult lives when finances start becoming "disposable".

    No doubt, the Casino owners of the 50's and 60's had an impact on most of todays Morgan collectors in that their collections were widely publicized. And who could have ever resisted "The Silver Queen"?

    As such, and given the fact that these behemoth coins are 90% Silver which in the the early 60's was dropped from regular circulating coinage, simply added to their mystique and attraction.

    The series, which is quite abundant and readily available in ALL conditions, quickly became over collected. Being undaunted, folks started doing what the Copper Collectors had done so many years before, they started collecting varieties, die marriages, and even got to the point of identifying coins with convenient die breaks, scratches. and rusted dies. VAM's were born.

    Of all the above, only the variety aspect (which is extremely minimal) can be shared with the Silver Eagles.

    They are bullion pieces not intended for circulation. As such, the only way today's youth will ever come in contact with one is as a gift for either graduation, birthday, anniversary or whatever. The "look what I got at the bank" just sin't going to happen.

    What I;m saying is that their is no historical perspective from a reminiscent standpoint for the Silver Eagles. For that reason, I don;t believe for a second that they'll ever be the "Morgan Dollars" of the Future. At least, not while Morgan Dollars are still around as comparing the two is definitely comparing apples to oranges.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's possible as there is no real contemporary alternative. >>

    The Eisenhower Series has more varieties than the Silver Eagle ever will.

    Some of the doubled dies are quite dramatic not to mention a wide array of RPM's. Some not so dramatic but RPM's none the less.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One thing to consider is that many collectors like to collect coins that they grew up with. That's why Lincolns are so popular. 19Lyds also mentioned collectors getting Morgans as kids. Over time, more collectors may feel a greater attachment to ASEs as more kids get ASEs as gifts (e.g. from the US Mint in presentation boxes) and fewer get Morgans.

    Morgans are also popular because they are big and silver with many reasonably priced uncirculated specimens. There was no such replacement afterwards as Peace dollars are not available in abundance (DMPL, monster toners, etc.), Ikes are not available in 90% silver and the small dollars aren't big and silver.

    ASEs, like Morgans, are also big and silver with many reasonably priced uncirculated specimens. Additionally, there are a prominent varieties to collect including reverse proofs, errors, monster toners, etc. ASEs also feature Lady Liberty.

    The main impediment I see to ASEs taking over is the milk spotting problem.
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree - ASE's are Bullion coins and always will be.

    I don't care about the varieties, paying the high USM prices for them, or any kind of premium.
    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>One thing to consider is that many collectors like to collect coins that they grew up with. That's why Lincolns are so popular. 19Lyds also mentioned collectors getting Morgans as kids. Over time, more collectors may feel a greater attachment to ASEs as more kids get ASEs as gifts (e.g. from the US Mint in presentation boxes) and fewer get Morgans.

    Morgans are also popular because they are big and silver with many reasonably priced uncirculated specimens. There was no such replacement afterwards as Peace dollars are not available in abundance (DMPL, monster toners, etc.), Ikes are not available in 90% silver and the small dollars aren't big and silver.

    ASEs, like Morgans, are also big and silver with many reasonably priced uncirculated specimens. Additionally, there are a prominent varieties to collect including reverse proofs, errors, monster toners, etc. ASEs also feature Lady Liberty.

    The main impediment I see to ASEs taking over is the milk spotting problem. >>







    I agree....and as far as the milk spots I have seen the on Franklins, Kennedy's and Ike's. Not as prevalent but they do happen.


  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I disagree - ASE's are Bullion coins and always will be.

    I don't care about the varieties, paying the high USM prices for them, or any kind of premium. >>



    People used to feel the same way about Morgans so you are making coinsarefun's point.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It's possible as there is no real contemporary alternative. >>

    The Eisenhower Series has more varieties than the Silver Eagle ever will.

    Some of the doubled dies are quite dramatic not to mention a wide array of RPM's. Some not so dramatic but RPM's none the less. >>






    Lee I like Ike's too, but haven't been lucky to find any varieties and besides he looks better with a tanimageimage




    image



  • I doubt that ASEs will be the Morgan dollars of future collectors for the simple reason that ASEs are currently collected, saved, and stored by collectors and investors. It's a pretty good rule of thumb that things that are intended to be collected, saved, and stored, never become hightly sought after.
  • epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
    100 years from now, ASEs from this day and age will sell for premiums unbeliveable today.

    Morgans premiums 100 years from now will be off the charts.

    Sooner or later the Mint needs to stop the ASE series and move on. To something more PC, probably.
  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭
    A considerable portion of Morgans were melted off and that
    may be good (no excellent) idea for these too. image Esp. if they distroy the intire
    mintage for a year or two , then everyone could speculate if they
    exist or were ever made !!


  • << <i>It's possible as there is no real contemporary alternative. >>



    What about Canadian Maples, Chinese Pandas, Australian Koalas or Kookaburras, British Britannias, Austria Philhamonics, and Mexican Libertads? Or the private issues like Lakota or NORFED?

  • smokincoinsmokincoin Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭


    << <i>That 1990 Proof is gorgeous.

    -Paul >>



    imageimage
  • It's also part of the chase. I can build a complete set of ASE's in no time flat. I don't collect either series but the history aspect is another point that must be there for me to enjoy a coin.

    And like has been said earlier, they certainly can be pretty, but yet I too find them boring. It's like having a car collection consisting of only Honda Accords and every year you just go get another new one from the dealer.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!

    No way!! They are not even coins! Morgans are popular because they are part of American history and people like the design also.

    ASE's are not coins....have no history....made yesterday....have no design (they stole the Walker half design!!

    The thought is so sad it's laughable!
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just think there are too many Morgans out there to get pushed to the curb by the new stuff.image

    image
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sorry but I don't think so. What makes Morgans so appealing to many is not just because of their size and silver content but because of their history as a medium of exchange.

    Since ASEs never circulated, there's just not much history to them at all. For that reason, many find them to be very boring (though they can tone very nicely). >>




    image

    bob
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>One thing to consider is that many collectors like to collect coins that they grew up with. That's why Lincolns are so popular. 19Lyds also mentioned collectors getting Morgans as kids. Over time, more collectors may feel a greater attachment to ASEs as more kids get ASEs as gifts (e.g. from the US Mint in presentation boxes) and fewer get Morgans.

    Morgans are also popular because they are big and silver with many reasonably priced uncirculated specimens. There was no such replacement afterwards as Peace dollars are not available in abundance (DMPL, monster toners, etc.), Ikes are not available in 90% silver and the small dollars aren't big and silver.

    ASEs, like Morgans, are also big and silver with many reasonably priced uncirculated specimens. Additionally, there are a prominent varieties to collect including reverse proofs, errors, monster toners, etc. ASEs also feature Lady Liberty.

    The main impediment I see to ASEs taking over is the milk spotting problem. >>



    I agree....and as far as the milk spots I have seen the on Franklins, Kennedy's and Ike's. Not as prevalent but they do happen. >>





    Ditto.

    Milk Spotting is not inclusive to Silver Eagles!
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It's possible as there is no real contemporary alternative. >>



    What about Canadian Maples, Chinese Pandas, Australian Koalas or Kookaburras, British Britannias, Austria Philhamonics, and Mexican Libertads? Or the private issues like Lakota or NORFED? >>






    Nahhh, that's for grey and darksidersimage


  • I don't own a single ASE and never will. But then again I don't like modern US coinage at all. To me it's just bullion and disco ball toning is just horrid. My coins are like me - old and crusty.
  • philographerphilographer Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In 100 years, ASEs will be 100 years old. But Morgans will be 200 years old. The 200 year old coin is far cooler.

    He who knows he has enough is rich.

  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    No they will not in my opinion. The pre 1933 coins will always be the big collector coins. Sure you will have people paying for ASE's in the future but the histroy and appeal will stay with the real coins and not bullion. I think in 100 years the 1921 Morgan will have more appeal that most any ASE date.

    Just like stamps and baseball cards, art and the like, the early ones are the big ones. Collectors will buy the newer stuff and sometimes they turn into a winner but all and all it is hard to beat the old ones.
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,284 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can see the reasoning behind it.
    The thing that will keep them different is that the morgans were still available for face value for the longest time. Even if they weren't always used for circulation reasons, they were obtainable for the price. They were available at banks, casinos, etc. They were in movies. They were part of a culture (old west).

    The SAEs are hampered by the opposite of that. Even when they were <$10 per coin, it still wasn't face and one couldn't just go to a bank and get some. Name a movie they have been in.....? There isn't quite the same aura about them.

    That said, I still like 'em...but only when toned (or reverse proof) as the mint has jumped the shark on these now and breaking the proof in 2009 turned me off, personally.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Decidedly better looking; so, yeah, I would hope so.

    A change is gonna come.
    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not likely. Could happen though since none of us know what will be going on 50 or 100 years from now.

    If striking of ASE stopped in 2013 or 2014 it would become much more likely.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In 100 years, ASEs will be 100 years old. But Morgans will be 200 years old. The 200 year old coin is far cooler. >>



    200 year old Draped Bust dollars are cooler today but the 100 year old Morgan is more popular today.



    << <i>I think in 100 years the 1921 Morgan will have more appeal that most any ASE date. >>



    I think it will vary by condition and rarity, just like today. I don't think a circulated 1921 Morgan will come anywhere close to the desirability of a monster toned common date ASE, today or 100 years from now.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,112 ✭✭✭✭✭
    never. Morgans were circulated.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It's possible as there is no real contemporary alternative. >>



    What about Canadian Maples, Chinese Pandas, Australian Koalas or Kookaburras, British Britannias, Austria Philhamonics, and Mexican Libertads? Or the private issues like Lakota or NORFED? >>



    I meant U.S. issued.
    Many happy BST transactions
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>It's possible as there is no real contemporary alternative. >>



    What about Canadian Maples, Chinese Pandas, Australian Koalas or Kookaburras, British Britannias, Austria Philhamonics, and Mexican Libertads? Or the private issues like Lakota or NORFED? >>



    I meant U.S. issued. >>







    Thus the wink emoticonimage

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    While they may be loved for the allegoric design on the obverse even as they hold their intrinsic value going forward, its' difficult to imagine they will be as widely collected or received well, as numismatics is concerned for future collectors, Stefanie. (strong, but it's my opinion)

    Only because a person would need the 95W and that limits a complete set to 30,125 . Then we got these other "issues" .... REV of '07 on the '08, No Proof for '09, burnished planchet, different mint marks..., etc... Five coin sets, two coin sets, 3 coin sets... And variety is the spice of life, only when there's little to no "collectible value" other than increased intrinsic value.
    Now with that arguement, it can easily be turned around to be the very reason these might be major collectibles. Though no coin will replace the Morgan Dollar. The SAE's have a following as collectibles. They should. But it's a stretch calling them the Morgan Dollars of future collectors. As always, time will tell.

    Respectfully submitted
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>No way!! They are not even coins! >>



    That's just plain silly. Of course they are coins. They are legal tender, authorized by law, and produced by the U.S. Mint. I suppose you don't consider commems to be coins either.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pre-1934 coins will always be king.

    Will ultra-moderns such as ASEs have any staying power? I don't know. Personally, I have no interest in them. If someone told me that the finest known set of ASEs was being exhibited at a show I was attending I wouldn't even bother to look.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the silver price goes to the moon, both Morgans and Silver Eagles will be collected mostly by design type. One of each. The way most U.S. gold is collected today.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm with JRocco.
    I'm surprised a PCGS MS65 1880 S Morgan isn't going for $55. There's just sooo many of them.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I disagree - ASE's are Bullion coins and always will be.

    I don't care about the varieties, paying the high USM prices for them, or any kind of premium. >>



    People used to feel the same way about Morgans so you are making coinsarefun's point. >>



    Yep. You used to be able to get Morgans by the bags for $1 a peice until the 60s. The only competitor I see for the SAEs are modern commem dollars. The market could tighten up if more folks start to seriously collect.
    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do think the 07/08 reverse will emerge as the 1916-D/1893-S of the series. They say about 47,000 were made but I don't think it's anywhere near that number.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In 100 years, ASEs will be 100 years old. But Morgans will be 200 years old. The 200 year old coin is far cooler. >>



    In 100 years people will be asking "What's a Dollar".
  • WingedLiberty1957WingedLiberty1957 Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i wonder if money might be 100% electronic in 100 years
    coins might be relegated to the category of cool antiques


    Here is my question

    why can't the USMint stamp "One Hundred Dollars" on ASE's
    then they could circulate as 100 dollar coins

    It's no different from having 3 cents worth of nickel and copper in a nickel

    I think it would be VERY COOL if ASE'S circulated

    and you could get them at the bank

    granted it would cost you $100 for one ... but you can always spend it for $100



    I mean technically the ASE IS a legal tender coin already and you could spend it for $1 right now.
    My only thought is, why did the mint stamp "ONE DOLLAR" only on it, why not "ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS"
    so you could start to see these coins circulate.





  • << <i>I don't own a single ASE and never will. But then again I don't like modern US coinage at all. To me it's just bullion and disco ball toning is just horrid. My coins are like me - old and crusty. >>



    image

    ...and the slabbing of such is silly.
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rumor has it that Miles' new book on American Silver Eagles may sell upwards of 20,000 copies. If I am not mistaken, that may be second to just the RED BOOK for most numismatic books sold? Kind of supports your theory?

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,638 ✭✭✭✭
    I think the Morgan Dollar will be the Morgan Dollar of future collectors.
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,663 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Rumor has it that Miles' new book on American Silver Eagles may sell upwards of 20,000 copies. If I am not mistaken, that may be second to just the RED BOOK for most numismatic books sold? Kind of supports your theory?

    Wondercoin >>





    I like thatimage

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