Bad SGC grading miss
MinorLeaguer
Posts: 514 ✭✭✭
I bought a $200 card on ebay rated SGC 96 mint. I paid a premium as it is a card that usually has centering problems and this one was centered. The card arrived and I was shocked to see deep rubberband crimps on the L/R edges. Bad enough that the card is obviously damaged as the crimp bends are about 1-2 mm's! They didn't show up on the scans. I don't know how the SGC grader missed this. Card should be ex at best with the damage. Since the seller described it as mint, I'm sure i can win an INAD case even though he has a no return policy. Ill mention to take advantage of the SGC guarantee
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Comments
Agreed.
<< <i>Hard to win this one. Seller listed and SGC mint card and delivered an SGC mint card. Your beef should be with SGC and NOT the seller. Granted, the seller should have sent the card back under their 'grade guarantee', but apparently, I am the only one who does that. Good luck with the outcome! >>
Seller has an 8000 ebay rating all buying and selling sports memorabilia and cards, all 100% positive. He either didn't notice or he was dumping a problem, even worse, at a high price. If he has any credibility as a seller who should know what is a legit mint card is, he'll refund upon return and upon seeing the damage, which trust me anyone can and should have seen. Think about it: Selling a card with obvious problems, buyer not able to see the damage from the scan and then seller putting his hands up saying not my problem, you should have asked, you deal with SGC, i dont take returns, is not how to do business and is not reputable. Mind you this is all hypothetical at this point. Seller hasn't responded to my message but its only 24 hours later and the weekend. Also note i bought other items in the transaction that im keeping so I told the seller not to worry about refunding any postage. So he is in the exact same place he was prior plus he still made some sales. No refund will equal a neg from me and me telling you all not to buy from him. im not worried about a retaliatory neg. I'd be shocked if ebay sides with him if it goes to a INAD case as this to me is exactly what ebay buyer protection should be in place for.
Who knows, could the card have been switched out?
I dont have a scanner at home and already packaged the item received saturday to put in the mail on monday.
ill let you all know how it turns out.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
<< <i>Seller sold and delivered what was listed. SGC is an approved grading service with Ebay. Not quite sure where the SNAD dispute comes up, unless you are disputing the grade, then that beef should be with SGC, NOT the seller! You are basically saying that your opinion should count as much as PSA/SGC/BVG, and that if you don't agree with their grade, then the item is SNAD. I believe the SNAD tag gets thrown out there WAYYYYY too much, and alot of times, like this case, it is not warranted. That is the way Ebay wants it though, so I am sure they are going to side with you, even though in a court of law, the seller would win this case. >>
Correct. I know I am doing business in the land of ebay where buyer is king and ebay wants all sellers to be reputable. If i was able to handle the card in hand, I would never have bought it. you're trying to make it black and white. i've bought other cards where upon receipt i didnt think the card merited the grade but kept the cards. but these cases were a 0.5 to 1.0 miss. This is a 4.0 to 6.0 point miss. This card would be PSA 3 to 5. In this case exclusively, yes, I feel my opinion matters just as much as the grading companies due to the fact that it is an obvious gaffe or a scam such as a replaced card in the holder. This isnt buyers remorse. I truly feel im getting taken. I normally will deal with the grade assigned but this miss is so bad I need the ebay buyer protection. Trust me no one on this board would accept this card as is. Also, seller called the card mint. Thats where ill claim SNAD.
So would you really be willing to put your reputation on the line as a seller for a few bucks? If someone isn't happy, refund and move on. If I had submitted that card for grading and miraculously got a PSA 9, I would never have tried to sell it on ebay or at least would point out the major flaw and start the auction at $0.99 and let the buyers pay what they want.
<< <i>Your opinion of the grade means nothing to ebay, and it will not qualify for ebay buyer protection. >>
Levi is right!
Jason
<< <i>pinkhat, you're delusional. Here's some advice: go wash your jacoby shirt. >>
Levi its a Pedroia shirt, pull your hat up its covering your eyes.
More than 24 hours later, the seller hasn't responded. Even to say, sorry sucker, I f'd u. no returns! This is the type of person you want to do business with??
<< <i>Since the scan is up, no one has commented.
More than 24 hours later, the seller hasn't responded. Even to say, sorry sucker, I f'd u. no returns! This is the type of person you want to do business with?? >>
What would you like anyone here to do? The card has an obvious indentation on the left border. You've already stated such.
Perhaps the seller is off on the weekend. Just because you want immediate results doesn't mean that a) you'll get them or b) that you're entitled to them.
I think the only recourse is to request a return of the item to the seller. SGC's guarantee doesn't cover the secondary buyer and eBay's TPG policy doesn't afford you the opportunity to question the grade of an acknowledged TPG regardless of whether you are right or not.
<< <i>Since the scan is up, no one has commented.
More than 24 hours later, the seller hasn't responded. Even to say, sorry sucker, I f'd u. no returns! This is the type of person you want to do business with?? >>
Look, it's not the sellers fault. You don't know that he personally submitted the card. The card is PROFESSIONALLY graded. He states the card is Mint because that is what the grading company called it. And some sellers do this during the week and take weekends off. So give him until Monday sometime to respond.
You seem like you are very difficult to deal with based on what I have read in this thread. I am sure you are upset that the card is not Mint, but be patient and wait for the seller to respond. I'm sure he will take it back. If he won't take it back, just contact SGC.
Matt
<< <i>
<< <i>Since the scan is up, no one has commented.
More than 24 hours later, the seller hasn't responded. Even to say, sorry sucker, I f'd u. no returns! This is the type of person you want to do business with?? >>
Look, it's not the sellers fault. You don't know that he personally submitted the card. The card is PROFESSIONALLY graded. He states the card is Mint because that is what the grading company called it. And some sellers do this during the week and take weekends off. So give him until Monday sometime to respond.
You seem like you are very difficult to deal with based on what I have read in this thread. I am sure you are upset that the card is not Mint, but be patient and wait for the seller to respond. I'm sure he will take it back. If he won't take it back, just contact SGC. >>
I dont think im difficult to deal with. Just noted a lot of comments pre-scan and interestingly none post-scan. Since my purchases are easily found as i didnt post the scan, why not look at my feedback to judge me. I buy, i pay and rarely return anything. Maybe 1%? I'm not convinced its not the sellers fault, or better said, i'm not convinced the seller acted in good faith based on my seeing the card in hand compared to the scan. That indentation in the scan on both edge are crimps bigger than a crimp in the hair of a 1980's Jersey girl when the card is in-hand. You would see it and be outraged as i did. Give me the benefit of the doubt that when i say it is 100 x's worse than in the scan. Maybe he didn't submit the card. Maybe he bought it and didnt have the balls to return it and now wants to pass his loss onto someone else. i dont lay down like that. You shouldnt get bent outta shape. Just ignore me if this causes u stress. Worst case, i'm out $240 now and will sell it for $30 for a $210 loss. its not ur hard earned money. it's mine. i'm not looking for you to do anything. But regardless if u support the seller, im still going to go down swinging when i feel wronged. ive bought from probstein, 4sc, pwcc and the like with no problems and commend their astoundingly fast shipping and high quality offerings. I am confident that no way they would they have ever offered this card.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
<< <i>Just curious. Anyone ever buy a card and when you get it you think it is undergraded, has a great chance for a bump. So you send the seller a few more bucks? >>
LMFAO!!! Now Ralph....you and I and everyone else knows the answer to that!! Way to play devil's advocate! Point taken......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Since the scan is up, no one has commented.
More than 24 hours later, the seller hasn't responded. Even to say, sorry sucker, I f'd u. no returns! This is the type of person you want to do business with?? >>
Look, it's not the sellers fault. You don't know that he personally submitted the card. The card is PROFESSIONALLY graded. He states the card is Mint because that is what the grading company called it. And some sellers do this during the week and take weekends off. So give him until Monday sometime to respond.
You seem like you are very difficult to deal with based on what I have read in this thread. I am sure you are upset that the card is not Mint, but be patient and wait for the seller to respond. I'm sure he will take it back. If he won't take it back, just contact SGC. >>
I dont think im difficult to deal with. Just noted a lot of comments pre-scan and interestingly none post-scan. Since my purchases are easily found as i didnt post the scan, why not look at my feedback to judge me. I buy, i pay and rarely return anything. Maybe 1%? I'm not convinced its not the sellers fault, or better said, i'm not convinced the seller acted in good faith based on my seeing the card in hand compared to the scan. That indentation in the scan on both edge are crimps bigger than a crimp in the hair of a 1980's Jersey girl when the card is in-hand. You would see it and be outraged as i did. Give me the benefit of the doubt that when i say it is 100 x's worse than in the scan. Maybe he didn't submit the card. Maybe he bought it and didnt have the balls to return it and now wants to pass his loss onto someone else. i dont lay down like that. You shouldnt get bent outta shape. Just ignore me if this causes u stress. Worst case, i'm out $240 now and will sell it for $30 for a $210 loss. its not ur hard earned money. it's mine. i'm not looking for you to do anything. But regardless if u support the seller, im still going to go down swinging when i feel wronged. ive bought from probstein, 4sc, pwcc and the like with no problems and commend their astoundingly fast shipping and high quality offerings. I am confident that no way they would they have ever offered this card. >>
Two things, I would give the seller a couple of days to respond, it's the weekend you know and not everyone works 7 days. As for the Probstein comment, you are sadly mistaken if you think he would not put up a card that is obviously not the grade it's holder gives it. See for yourself then feel free to respond.
1975 Topps Nolan Ryan
Appreciate today-
Bill
<< <i>Just curious. Anyone ever buy a card and when you get it you think it is undergraded, has a great chance for a bump. So you send the seller a few more bucks? >>
Totally irrelevent to this situation and complete nonsense.
<< <i>Totally irrelevent to this situation and complete nonsense. >>
VERY relevant. I believe Ralph was trying to prove a point.
<< <i>
<< <i>Totally irrelevent to this situation and complete nonsense. >>
VERY relevant. I believe Ralph was trying to prove a point. >>
How so? I assume his point was exactly what it was and it is stupid to even compare that hypothetical situation. If a person buys a High End for the grade card and it gets a bump then thats the way it goes- its a crap shoot, I sold a PSA 7 that I personally tried to get a bump 2 different times and it got denied, as soon as I sold the card to former member Keith Weinhold he sent it in and got a bump, did he deceive me knowing he bought the card that could get a bump? NO
Now if if the card had an indent on it and it got by the grader and was holdered a PSA 7 and I sold it as a PSA 7 and made no mention of the indent then I dumped the card on the unsuspecting person who didnt realize the flaw.
Very simple to understand the difference, if you or Ralph think otherwise then there is no talking sense into you.
One you need to give the seller a little bit more time to reply, I think 3-5 days is proper.
I agree it looks like SGC made a mistake, it happens to all TPG's and bottom line they should take care of it.
I think the no returns on raw/graded card by an ebay seller is not the way to do business and I avoid some sellers because of things just like this but even worse on raw cards, like the ones that sell cards as EX and then you receive it to find a crease or two and then they refuse any return. If a seller really cares about his customers they should take the return and take the issue up with the TPG. Whatever negative I have said about the ebay consignors at times I do know most offer a return if not happy and I have sent cards back because of this (Prostein, Davids Vintage, each over $500 cards), its just good business and has caused me to bid higher on their items in the future as I feel safer. If they refused a return that i felt was reasonable then I would ding their DSR's hard (for sure item description and possibly communications) and would consider a neg.
Good luck!
<< <i>Just curious. Anyone ever buy a card and when you get it you think it is undergraded, has a great chance for a bump. So you send the seller a few more bucks? >>
The rare times that happens, I've always checked out other cards they've had for sale with a much stronger inclination to buy them. So in way, yes I have
interesting and varied items for sale.
What's kind of odd is that the same day the OP bought this Henderson SGC 96 card in question,
the seller also sold another one graded a 10, but he used the SGC 96 scan for the
10 listing. He didn't list the grading company of the 10 in his title or the listing.
His description reads 'rare grading company'. He sold this 10 for only $165 or $75 less than
the SGC 9 card. Kind of strange.
I'm kind of on the fence about this issue.
I feel the seller didn't grade the card, he's only the middle man selling it. He didn't
assign the grade, some so-called third party company did, SGC... who I feel is
responsible for the grades of every card they slab up, just like PSA should be.
The grading companies should be responsible for their assigned grades.
That's why we pay them to do this service. Authenticate and grade.
The seller could've have bought the card already graded too. He might not have scrutinized
the card prior to grading. He could be simply listing it for sale and didn't notice the edge indents.
This is speculation since we're only hearing one side of the case here. We don't know
what's in the mind of the seller.
Another point, some sellers cannot even grade properly. Most sellers of graded cards
rarely comment on the card's condition after it's graded by a TPGer.
That's why some people pay a third party grading company to assign the grade
because they're not very good graders and or grading it typically adds value to the item.
To me, I would take it up with the grading company and have them re-grade it and
hopefully SGC would pay the buyer the difference in lost value if they assign it a lower
grade on second review.
I've seen many cards with edge indents in PSA 9 holders over the years too.
This is not uncommon.
Not too long I sold a vintage PSA 9 card with this exact same problem. I listed it as a BIN.
I pointed out the edge issues in my description and I offer a return on cards.
So far the buyer must be okay with it as it's been over a month and they haven't
emailed me on it or returned it and left positive feedback for me.
I feel it's better to fully disclose issues like this when selling.
That would be my only beef with the seller of the Henderson card, not
disclosing the edge indents in their description.