Is this the beginning of the end for Mack Brown?
MrVintage
Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I live in OKC and I am a lifetime OU fan and after watching the beatdown of Texas today I have a feeling that this might have been the last time that we see Mack Brown coach in the Red River Rivalry. It seemed like the Longhorns quit on him pretty early in this one and they were absolutely embarrassed by the Sooners. He has had a great career, but it looks like it is gonna be time for him to go pretty soon.
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>They sure have a lot of patience at Texas. Brown has been irrelevant for years now. MJ >>
Yeah, that BCS championship game vs 'Bama was so two years ago.
Heh.
<< <i>
<< <i>They sure have a lot of patience at Texas. Brown has been irrelevant for years now. MJ >>
Yeah, that BCS championship game vs 'Bama was so two years ago.
Heh. >>
5-7 2010
8-5 2011
what have you've done for me lately
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They sure have a lot of patience at Texas. Brown has been irrelevant for years now. MJ >>
Yeah, that BCS championship game vs 'Bama was so two years ago.
Heh. >>
5-7 2010
8-5 2011
what have you've done for me lately
MJ >>
Sorry, I meant two years as in the 2010 BCS game. And they were ranked #13 prior to playing W VA, though did think they were a tad over-rated.
IMO, Mack has a job as long as he wants it. Haven't heard one peep from Alumni and end of the day, they pull the AD strings.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They sure have a lot of patience at Texas. Brown has been irrelevant for years now. MJ >>
Yeah, that BCS championship game vs 'Bama was so two years ago.
Heh. >>
5-7 2010
8-5 2011
what have you've done for me lately
MJ >>
Sorry, I meant two years as in the 2010 BCS game. And they were ranked #13 prior to playing W VA, though did think they were a tad over-rated.
IMO, Mack has a job as long as he wants it. Haven't heard one peep from Alumni and end of the day, they pull the AD strings. >>
You maybe very right and I understand what you are saying. Believe me I was rooting for Coach Brown and Texas in 2009. However, things can unravel quickly. I see some of the same things in Texas ( the last two years+ ) as I did at Michigan the last few years of Lloyd Carr's tenure. I'm probably wrong........MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They sure have a lot of patience at Texas. Brown has been irrelevant for years now. MJ >>
Yeah, that BCS championship game vs 'Bama was so two years ago.
Heh. >>
5-7 2010
8-5 2011
what have you've done for me lately
MJ >>
Sorry, I meant two years as in the 2010 BCS game. And they were ranked #13 prior to playing W VA, though did think they were a tad over-rated.
IMO, Mack has a job as long as he wants it. Haven't heard one peep from Alumni and end of the day, they pull the AD strings. >>
You maybe very right and I understand what you are saying. Believe me I was rooting for Coach Brown and Texas in 2009. However, things can unravel quickly. I see some of the same things in Texas ( the last two years+ ) as I did at Michigan the last few years of Lloyd Carr's tenure. I'm probably wrong........MJ >>
I guess it depends on one's perspective, as I see similarities between Texas in the past two years and just about every single season of the Carr regime that didn't include 1997. Texas has been mediocre for two seasons; Carr was mediocre for his entire tenure at UM, save the fraudulent 'National Championship' year.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Carr's record at Michigan and Brown's at Texas are almost identical as are the National Championships. That is how the score is kept. The Big 12 was no SEC either. Carr is already in the College Football Hall of Fame. MJ >>
Big 12> Big 10 by a considerable margin. No, the Big 12 is not the SEC; but then, who is? It's still an incredibly competitive conference, which distinguishes it in many ways from the Big 10. Look- I'm from Ypsilanti, Mi., (8 miles east of Ann Arbor) so it's not like I don't have a working understanding of the UM football program. And you would be hard pressed to find a single program, in any sport, at any level, anywhere in the USA, that has been as historically overrated as the Wolverine football program. Period. No program has done less with more.
<< <i>
<< <i>Carr's record at Michigan and Brown's at Texas are almost identical as are the National Championships. That is how the score is kept. The Big 12 was no SEC either. Carr is already in the College Football Hall of Fame. MJ >>
Big 12> Big 10 by a considerable margin. No, the Big 12 is not the SEC; but then, who is? It's still an incredibly competitive conference, which distinguishes it in many ways from the Big 10. Look- I'm from Ypsilanti, Mi., (8 miles east of Ann Arbor) so it's not like I don't have a working understanding of the UM football program. And you would be hard pressed to find a single program, in any sport, at any level, anywhere in the USA, that has been as historically overrated as the Wolverine football program. Period. No program has done less with more. >>
Nah, not buying it at all. Your proximity to Ann Arbor is neither a plus or a minus to your opinion. It's just your opinion and I'm not going to change it either. The Big 12 has and have produced plenty of crappy and over rated teams over the past decade or two. Nebraska just being the current example.
I went to the Michigan-Texas 2004 Rose Bowl game which was arguably one of the best college games ever. An excellent Michigan team vs a great Texas team. Toe to toe. 38-37 final. Not much to choose from. Texas won the National Championship the following season. During the game and after countless Texas fans remarked how similar Texas and Michigan football programs were. I have great respect for both schools. FYI- I agree that Michigan is generally higher rated at the beginning of most seasons then they deserve. I just made that remark recently to my U of M graduate son who also agreed. At the end of the day who cares?
The only crime to the Michigan 1997 season is that had to share the National Championship with Nebraska. Michigan went 12-0 and beat everybody on their schedule including a then number 1 Penn State at Happy Valley 35-8. They ran the table set in front of them just like many others before and after. Your fraudulent comment smacks of chip on your shoulder or hater.
Sorry to the OP for snatching his thread. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Carr's record at Michigan and Brown's at Texas are almost identical as are the National Championships. That is how the score is kept. The Big 12 was no SEC either. Carr is already in the College Football Hall of Fame. MJ >>
Guess we do things differently down here. It's not what have you done for me lately but rather, look at what the program has become during Mack's tenure. Consistently ranked, excellent recruitment, and numerous BCS games, including two championship games. No scandals, well respected, and he's in good graces with donors.
Long story short, he'll get well-deserved slack if/when bad times come their way.
<< <i>
<< <i>Carr's record at Michigan and Brown's at Texas are almost identical as are the National Championships. That is how the score is kept. The Big 12 was no SEC either. Carr is already in the College Football Hall of Fame. MJ >>
Guess we do things differently down here. It's not what have you done for me lately but rather, look at what the program has become during Mack's tenure. Consistently ranked, excellent recruitment, and numerous BCS games, including two championship games. No scandals, well respected, and he's in good graces with donors.
Long story short, he'll get well-deserved slack if/when bad times come their way. >>
I can understand and live with that. It's a great program and school and I've always liked coach Brown. I do think he's sliding just the same. He probably will get and deserves a lot of rope.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Carr's record at Michigan and Brown's at Texas are almost identical as are the National Championships. That is how the score is kept. The Big 12 was no SEC either. Carr is already in the College Football Hall of Fame. MJ >>
Big 12> Big 10 by a considerable margin. No, the Big 12 is not the SEC; but then, who is? It's still an incredibly competitive conference, which distinguishes it in many ways from the Big 10. Look- I'm from Ypsilanti, Mi., (8 miles east of Ann Arbor) so it's not like I don't have a working understanding of the UM football program. And you would be hard pressed to find a single program, in any sport, at any level, anywhere in the USA, that has been as historically overrated as the Wolverine football program. Period. No program has done less with more. >>
Nah, not buying it at all. Your proximity to Ann Arbor is neither a plus or a minus to your opinion. It's just your opinion and I'm not going to change it either. The Big 12 has and have produced plenty of crappy and over rated teams over the past decade or two. Nebraska just being the current example.
I went to the Michigan-Texas 2004 Rose Bowl game which was arguably one of the best college games ever. An excellent Michigan team vs a great Texas team. Toe to toe. 38-37 final. Not much to choose from. Texas won the National Championship the following season. During the game and after countless Texas fans remarked how similar Texas and Michigan football programs were. I have great respect for both schools. FYI- I agree that Michigan is generally higher rated at the beginning of most seasons then they deserve. I just made that remark recently to my U of M graduate son who also agreed. At the end of the day who cares?
The only crime to the Michigan 1997 season is that had to share the National Championship with Nebraska. Michigan went 12-0 and beat everybody on their schedule including a then number 1 Penn State at Happy Valley 35-8. They ran the table set in front of them just like many others before and after. Your fraudulent comment smacks of chip on your shoulder or hater.
Sorry to the OP for snatching his thread. MJ >>
My proximity to Ann Arbor is undoubtedly a plus, because I've been following Michigan football for 20 years now. As for the 'fraudulent' comment, oddsmakers would have installed the 'Huskers as a 6.5 pt. favorite, which is a substantial margin; if nothing else, it demonstrates that some of the most knowledgeable and unbiased college football experts out there thought Nebraska was the better team that year.
In any case, my main point is that no major program has the built-in advantages that Michigan has had. They have, for years, had first choice on most of the blue chip prospects that come from a state of 10 million people, they have a ton of money and a huge donor network, and they get to play in what has to be considered, by any historical metric, the most grossly overrated football conference in the nation. And yet, despite these advantages, a typical UM season under Carr was 8-4 or 9-3, with a few inexplicable losses to mid-tier Big 10 teams mixed into the fray. Oh- and they've had those results while consistently boasting some of the finest recruiting classes in the nation, and having loads of players drafted by the NFL in the first three rounds.
If you can find a program that has consistently underachieved to the extent that UM has, I'd love to see who it is. And it's interesting that you bring up the 2004 season, since that's a walking illustration of my point. UM's season in a nushell:
1) Loses to unranked Notre Dame
2) Plays exactly TWO ranked teams all year (Minnesota and Purdue) before the bowl game, and wins those two games by a combined total of 5 pts. Neither was ranked higher than 12th at the time they played Michigan.
3) Avoided Penn St. and Wisconsin.
4) Finishes the season ranked 13th.
This is what passed for 'excellence' under Lloyd Carr. And yet, anytime I bring up the fact that this program just isn't very good I have a line of guys stretching out the door desperate to call me a 'hater'.
<< <i>As for the 'fraudulent' comment, oddsmakers would have installed the 'Huskers as a 6.5 pt. favorite, which is a substantial margin; if nothing else, it demonstrates that some of the most knowledgeable and unbiased college football experts out there thought Nebraska was the better team that year. >>
And had there been replay back then, Nebraska wouldn't have been undefeated. They beat Missouri that year on a deflected TD pass that, had there been replay, would not have counted (the ball was kicked).
<< <i>This is what passed for 'excellence' under Lloyd Carr. And yet, anytime I bring up the fact that this program just isn't very good I have a line of guys stretching out the door desperate to call me a 'hater'. >>
I am a huge U of M football fan and I agree with most of what you've said. I was calling for Lloyd Carr's firing long before he retired. He was a fabulous recruiter - just look at the long line of NFL guys he had. But he failed to develop talent and was an awful gameday coach. His offenses were schizophrenic at best - run, run, run, then heave the ball downfield or throw, throw, throw. Never any balance, never any clear philosophy. And distinctly outdated. The one time Lloyd decided to get modern was his last game, the bowl game against Florida. They went 4-wide most of the day and Chad Henne lit up one of the best SEC defenses.
In general, as you've stated, Lloyd's teams underachieved. If they weren't somehow losing to Appalachian, they were gagging in a bowl game or losing to some unranked team. We're talking about a guy who had Tom Brady* and lost to Michigan State and Illinois back-to-back. Ugh.
That said, I think Brady Hoke is on his way to turning things around. Once he's free of having Denard "If I'd just set my feet, I could be a pretty decent QB" Robinson as his starter, we should see some really good things out of Ann Arbor.
Tabe
* - in Lloyd's defense, Brady was BRADY when he was at Michigan. How much of that was Carr's failure to develop is unclear. I know Brady doesn't exactly rave about his time at Michigan, in part because of the platooning nonsense with Drew Henson, but he also didn't develop the way you'd hope. It wasn't until he went to the pros and sat for a year, figured out what the inside of a gym looked like, and actually worked on his game that he became the strong-armed superstar we now know. None of that was evident when he was at Michigan.