1993 SP wax box vs 1986 Fleer Basketball - Better Investment?

Foo3112

Seeing how the Jeter cards in a PSA 9 are climbing into the $1200 territory, do you think that getting a wax box would be a solid investment. Only reason I ask is that 1986 Basketball Fleer goes for about $14,000 and a Jordan in PSA 9 is going for $1400.

I'm thinking its a really solid investment.

ShootyBabitt

How many Jeters get pulled, on average, out of one box?

gc1213

For the potential pull of the premier card in PSA 9 sure, the reward is there at a fraction of the risk. I don't think there are nearly as many high dollar cards in top grade for the SP as there are in the 86 Fleer though. I also think the 93 SP are in far greater supply than the 86-87 Fleer. The value for the 86 is in keeping it sealed. We have all seen how tough it is to pull an MJ that grades a 9 or 10. The chances of recouping your $14k from the ripped cards are slim in my opinion.

If keeping sealed, the 86-87 is better...for ripping I would go after the Jeter.

Other boxes that I think would be great investments are the 87-88 Fleer and the 80-81 Topps Basketball. 87-88 had a shorter print run than the 86's and as the 86's climb I wouldn't be surprised if more and more collectors start ripping the 87s. 80-81 has arguably the most undervalued card in the modern hobby and are extremely tough to find. The price on both of these is very reasonable.

Francart

Usually 1 Jeter per box. Although I've seen boxes with no Jeters in them and one time I saw one busted that contained 2 Jeters.

gregmo32

There are too many differences to list, but the one that cannot be overstated is how difficult it is to get a Jeter graded PSA 9.

17% of 1986 Fleer Jordans that are submitted receive a PSA 9 or PSA 10. The percentage is extremely skewed because there are many reasons to submit lower grade Jordans, ie even a PSA 7 will sell for a premium over an ungraded Near Mint copy.

4.4% of 1993 SP Jeters receive a PSA 9 or 10. And that number would be much lower if people had more incentive to send in their NM or EX copes for grading.

The condition sensitivity of the Jeter is at least 90% of the battle, whereas people are happy to have a Jordan RC in any grade.

That may change if Jeter makes a run at Rose over the next five years, but otherwise that is the major difference between the two.

The other difference is that a 1986 Fleer box almost always yields three Jordans, in addition to a hundred other gradeable RCs, HOFs, and potentially valuable PSA 10 singles. In 1993 SP, Jeter is the only marketable card, and you can open a legit box and get zero of them.

vladguerrero

what do you mean by your last sentence gregmo? do you not think the Cliff Floyd 1993 SP RC is going to take off again?

mygotta

If you are patient, you can get a box for around $300

1993 SP box

ThoseBackPages

i dont see it fair to compare.

very few kids outside of america have any idea who Derek Jeter is

jgrigali

another issue with 1993 SP is that the cards have been in there a while, and the material used sort of sticks together because of heat/time. so the odds of getting a high grade jeter are really small

gc1213

<< <i>another issue with 1993 SP is that the cards have been in there a while, and the material used sort of sticks together because of heat/time. so the odds of getting a high grade jeter are really small >>



Great point. That foil can really stick to the card on top of it. I pulled a foil MJ Scoring Kings card from 93 Ultra a few months back and had to remove it like a surgeon. Thos high gloss poil cards from the 90's come out of packs in bricks sometime.

TheCARDKid

I don't know about 87/88 Fleer climbing. That set has been stuck for a long time. How long has the Jordan 8 been a hundred dollars, something?

It seems like 87/88 has never gotten much love. I think the design puts people off. Plus the lack of rookies.

-It seems like the cards that are really cheap are the various Bird and Magic rookies from 80/81 (not the Bird, Magic, Dr J card). Like the Bird/Sikma rookie. What's up with those cards? They seem all but forgotten about.

As more time elapses, that Jeter sp rookie may be a $1,500-1,700 card. NY, huge media/fan base. Stellar on and off court performance. He may get kind of a Cal Ripken premium. Being a good guy, kind of ambassador to baseball. If he gets close to 4,000 hits, that'd be very exciting.

mygotta

I opened up some of those 90's cards, Upper Deck and even Stadium Club. After a period of sitting there, from heat and time (as mentioned), yes, they stick together. Some pull the paper off, while others leave a residue or print from top cards. "Cracking" them, such as giving a slight bend, helps to release them, but I have found that it does not help the surface. Even if corners are sharp and the card is centered, surface gloss and finish is going to be a real issue on these.

Wow, I just looked at the population report, and of the 10,000 that were submitted, only 10 were graded Gem Mint.

ClockworkAngel

I agree with whoever said forget both and go for the 1980/81 Basketball and also agree that is has the most underrated (and undervalued) card ever.

That being said, between the 2 I'd go with the 1993 SP...much more room for growth. 86 Fleer commands 12K now? And the 87 Fleer may be rarer, but it doesn't matter if there's no demand, and there's just no demand for anything in that set

BPorter26

SP boxes are now climbing they have gone as high as $565. Do you see these boxes hitting $1000? Jeter is this generations Jordan?

otwcards

The 1993 SP box is driven by one card and one card only . . . Derek Jeter. 1993 SP is a rick shaw compared to the bus driven by Michael Jordan and the 1986 Fleer box that also has seats for Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Mullin, Olajuwon, Dumars, Thomas, Wilkins, and many others.

Allen

I pulled 2 Jeters from the only box I have ever opened.

digicat

As mentioned before, the cards glossy coating sometimes will turn into something like glue over time.

Has anyone recently ripped a box of 1993 SP and encountered otherwise? Seems like unopened 1993 SP would be fools gold if all the cards were routinely damaged.

mattinglymint23

I ripped a box in January. 2 jeters. One graded a 7 one an 8. I pulled two chippers one of which was a gem. Cards didn't stick. But the jeters had touched corners right out of the pack. Most if other fools were crisp oddly enough.

alnavman

This comment probably belongs in its own thread but based on fact that many believe Jordan is the greatest basketball player to ever set foot on the court I would think that 1986 Fleer would be the one to have....also I remember when boxes of the fleer were going in the trash because no one was buying it back in 1986......would think there is more 93 SP out there than the fleer. As I said this probably is another thread but don't think many on these boards would say Jeter is the greatest baseball player to ever set foot on a baseball diamond but many would agree that Jordan just may be the best bball player ever......and this is coming from a Cleveland fan who saw LeBron and unfortunately is old enough to remember what Jordan did to probably the best Cavs team ever.......another point, what other rookies are in 93SP??? there are many others in the 1986 Fleer. Danny Ainge, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler, Joe Dumars, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Chris Mullin, Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins and James Worthy

al.

hyperchipper09

1986 Fleer Basketball.
Not even close IMO.

3BoyzTrading

<< <i>Seeing how the Jeter cards in a PSA 9 are climbing into the $1200 territory, do you think that getting a wax box would be a solid investment. Only reason I ask is that 1986 Basketball Fleer goes for about $14,000 and a Jordan in PSA 9 is going for $1400.

I'm thinking its a really solid investment. >>



I think the Jordan in PSA 9 is too.

BPorter26

<< <i>The 1993 SP box is driven by one card and one card only . . . Derek Jeter. 1993 SP is a rick shaw compared to the bus driven by Michael Jordan and the 1986 Fleer box that also has seats for Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Mullin, Olajuwon, Dumars, Thomas, Wilkins, and many others.
>>




Scott, I also think the 86 fleer is driven by one card. If you're opening a pack you're looking and hoping to pull the Jordan, not the other 10 HOFers. If you do not pull the Jordan, you could have just wasted $400 to $600 on a pack unless you can pull 10's from the commons or the star RC's. A Barkley PSA 9 averages around $120, Ewing $85 and so on. I would rather own a 86 Fleer box myself, but I don't have an extra 20K laying around.

Since Jeter has decided to retire after the 20014 season, his cards have shot up as well as the unopen '93 SP boxes. This is only my opinion but to me Jeter is almost like Micky Mantle. I'm sure I just upset the apple cart on that comment. He has a national following, he plays for arguably the greatest baseball franchise of all-time, is one of the greatest Yankees of all-time, he's won 5 titles and he's going to have a plaque in Cooperstown. The question I threw out there with unopen taking off do you see these boxes hitting a $1000 within the next 2-5 years?

doog71

<< <i>

<< <i>The 1993 SP box is driven by one card and one card only . . . Derek Jeter. 1993 SP is a rick shaw compared to the bus driven by Michael Jordan and the 1986 Fleer box that also has seats for Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Mullin, Olajuwon, Dumars, Thomas, Wilkins, and many others.
>>




Scott, I also think the 86 fleer is driven by one card. If you're opening a pack you're looking and hoping to pull the Jordan, not the other 10 HOFers. If you do not pull the Jordan, you could have just wasted $400 to $600 on a pack unless you can pull 10's from the commons or the star RC's. A Barkley PSA 9 averages around $120, Ewing $85 and so on. I would rather own a 86 Fleer box myself, but I don't have an extra 20K laying around.

Since Jeter has decided to retire after the 20014 season, his cards have shot up as well as the unopen '93 SP boxes. This is only my opinion but to me Jeter is almost like Micky Mantle. I'm sure I just upset the apple cart on that comment. He has a national following, he plays for arguably the greatest baseball franchise of all-time, is one of the greatest Yankees of all-time, he's won 5 titles and he's going to have a plaque in Cooperstown. The question I threw out there with unopen taking off do you see these boxes hitting a $1000 within the next 2-5 years? >>



I think you're right on with the Mantle/Jeter comparison. Jeter is the guy that will be the "Yep, I saw THAT guy play!" of this generation.

bigdcards

I'll leave the Jeter comparison insanity to another thread, but I like the 93 SP unopened as the investment. The 86 box has to go so crazy to keep up if the sp box just gets to 1200. What does an 93 sp case go for? That might be easier to compare.

BLUEJAYWAY

1986 box for me. To many, Jordan ranks top 5 of all time in basketball, if not the best, to some. I'm not sure where Jeter fits in the top 5 listing of all time in baseball. He'd have to go past Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Mays, Clemente, Musial, and a host of others. I don't think Jordan has to pass as many top players to be considered best of all time as Jeter would have to. Surely he fits in the all time top 5 Yankees discussion, maybe the best. These are both judgement calls/fan favorite debates. From a set standpoint I think there is more value in any of the 86's regardless if commons or not, if one can snag 9's/10's for any player. Not so sure how 9's/10's of the other cards in the SP set would fare. Of course time will tell to see how many chase a 9/10 set of the SP set. Will be a challenge due to the foils. Also the 86 box has a certain publicity/mystique about it(how many boxes are out there,debates on this very forum recently) and a 7 year start on the SP to help maintain it's value. Just my views and as usual we will all likely agree to disagree.

Allen

<< <i>I ripped a box in January. 2 jeters. One graded a 7 one an 8. I pulled two chippers one of which was a gem. Cards didn't stick. But the jeters had touched corners right out of the pack. Most if other fools were crisp oddly enough. >>



I read on his forum that the foil cards were hand loaded into the pack hoppers or something along those lines. That is apparently why they have more corner wear than other cards in the box. This was the case with my box.

Dusto

Jeter will never be a "I saw that guy play" in any of my stories to the kids and eventual grandkids someday. Not that he isn't one of the best, but the story we will be telling is that my wife knew him in high school and he kept trying to get her to go out with his buddy. Thank god he didn't go after her (she has the looks), as that would be a hard time for my ego to overcome and the endless ribbing from my friends!!! As an aside, my wife didn't even know he was an awesome baseball player, but knew he was an all-state basketball player and was heading to Michigan for college.

alnavman

<< <i>Jeter will never be a "I saw that guy play" in any of my stories to the kids and eventual grandkids someday. Not that he isn't one of the best, but the story we will be telling is that my wife knew him in high school and he kept trying to get her to go out with his buddy. Thank god he didn't go after her (she has the looks), as that would be a hard time for my ego to overcome and the endless ribbing from my friends!!! As an aside, my wife didn't even know he was an awesome baseball player, but knew he was an all-state basketball player and was heading to Michigan for college. >>



agree with the "I saw that guy play" comment.....my kids are 16 and 20 and the guys I talked to them about were Jordan and Elway.....being from Cleveland you know why I told the kids about Elway.....anyways I believe Jeter has been a great player but to be honest I would not place him in top 5 Yankees all time.....let's see Ruth, Mantle, Joe D, Yogi, Whitey Ford, Damon.....

al.

PS...only kidding about Damon....

Thenugent

Well I just bought a BBCE 1993 SP box for 720 total so am really hoping it's a better investment than that exaggerated 1986 Fleer Basketball sucker stuff is. uhhhhhh

ClockworkAngel

Derek Jeter is a superstar...
Michael Jordan is an icon....
Big difference. Jordan is on the same level as Babe Ruth, Mantle, Muhamad Ali, Gretzky. Once every 25 years if that.

Derek Jeter is hugely popular and Yankee all time great, but after he retires and is in the HOF, I don't think the demand for his SP card will be as strong. I think he will quietly be set aside. Whereas Jordan will always be there for generations. There will never be another...

That being said, I wouldn't call the 1986F box a great invstment, but that's just my opinion. At the current price, I just don't know how much higher it might go. And there are actually quite a few Jordans out there and will be more.

I think the best investment is a PSA 9 Jordan.

Thenugent

Man, got any other advice for life ? I'd take it

That reply was friggin brilliant and made my dumbass think so thank you. Agreed.

mesapsa

Take the 1986/87 Fleer Basketball Box to the bank!!!! Anyone know if BBCE has one for sale? In this case I do agree paying the huge premium as the 86/87 Fleer box is a sure fire investment if I have ever seen one! I would never again buy the SP Wax box as the last one I opened was brick hard and all the cards were in D- condition!!!

lseecon

I think the 1993 sp box is still good value at 30 per pack given how much the jeter is worth. While jeter is no Jordan. He will always be considered one of the all time Yankee greats and an icon and standout of the 90s to 2000s era. There are not a ton of sp boxes out there.
I think at current prices the 93 sp box has greater investment potential than the 86 fleer hoops box

Jakt

The comparison of Jeter to Mantle as a player might be valid. But, if you have ANY regular issue Mantle cards, you are holding onto something of significant value. The same cannot be said about Jeter cards.

I'm not sure how this would translate into which would be a better investment (SP box vs. Fleer box), but I don't think we are going to see Jeter as a marketing symbol on sports gear that crosses over other sports. How many basketball players wear any gear with Wayne Gretzky on them?

There is also the desirability of the set itself. What other cards would people want in the SP box? This makes it more of a gambling situation. That was also one of the problems the hobby faced.... turning buying a pack akin to playing a slot machine.

lahmejoon

I think, in terms of percentage growth in the next five years, SP would be better, as we approach Jeter getting into the Hall.

Cakes

<< <i>Derek Jeter is a superstar...
Michael Jordan is an icon....
Big difference. Jordan is on the same level as Babe Ruth, Mantle, Muhamad Ali, Gretzky. Once every 25 years if that.

Derek Jeter is hugely popular and Yankee all time great, but after he retires and is in the HOF, I don't think the demand for his SP card will be as strong. I think he will quietly be set aside. Whereas Jordan will always be there for generations. There will never be another...

That being said, I wouldn't call the 1986F box a great invstment, but that's just my opinion. At the current price, I just don't know how much higher it might go. And there are actually quite a few Jordans out there and will be more.

I think the best investment is a PSA 9 Jordan. >>




Are Tiger Woods and Lebron James icon's?

LarkinCollector

<< <i>Are Tiger Woods and Lebron James icon's? >>


I would say yes to Tiger and no to Lebron.

mbz430e

86 Fleer is without question the more appealing of the 2 boxes. When talking investment though, wouldn't the upside of the 93 SP be a better choice? Say 86 Fleer =12k and 93=$700.00, You could purchase 17 boxes for the same money. I would bet that your return would be greater on the 17 boxes in the short term. If the box goes to a grand, you make $5100.00. How long before the 86 Fleer is 17k? With this said, the 86 Fleer would be my choice for long term investment. Jordan or Jeter? Jordan without question!

ergoism

The 1993 SP box is intriguing only for the Jeter rookie, which in PSA 10 is $30k+ and in PSA 9 is $900-1300. These boxes currently sell for $500-600 on average up from around $400 in 2012 due to Jeter's retirement and the performance of his rookie in high grade. Not factoring crack outs, 0.11% of the Jeters submitted come back as a 10 and about 4.4% come back 9s, over half come back 8s. Only 9s and 10 could you make money with. There are 0-2 Jeters in each box usually so a rough estimate would be about 1 per box. As others have stated, a lot of these boxes have cards in them that are nothing but bricks. The cards easily stick together and damage each other when separated. There are many boxes that are stuck together and have 0 Jeters. I don't foresee accelerated growth of these boxes in the near future due to these factors and the fact that there are so many still out there.

The 86 Fleer box is iconic and there's way more to it than just the Jordan. It's loaded with stars and rookie cards, which each box should yield 3-4 of (2-4 for stickers) IF opened. These are steadily selling in the $22-25k range right now and don't come around very often. I've heard that Mile High will have one in their Summer Premium auction and this will help us see where the actual market for these is as one hasn't been to auction in quite a while. There don't seem to be many of these boxes remaining. There is the unsealed case on eBay right now listed at $300,000 but that is about maximum retail value currently for 12 boxes. If it was sealed, it would probably easily sell at that number. I'm a huge fan of this box and it's place in the hobby. As far as investing goes, I see no downside in owning this box as long as you don't plan on rolling the dice by opening it. Even if one decides to open it, there are a few cards in PSA 10 that can bring in $4-6k (Johnny Moore, Wilkins, Wilkins sticker), plenty of $500-$1000 cards, and obviously the Jordan which would be 10-11k, and even in 9 is a 2k card.

For argument's sake, let's say an 86 Fleer box is $25,000 and the 93 SP box is $550. Since we are comparing the two for investment purposes, it's worth comparing spending the same amount of money on each. If I had the choice of one box of 86 Fleer at $25k or 45 boxes of SP at the same price, I would choose the Fleer box. If we were comparing ripping scenarios, I would still choose the Fleer box.

Just wanted to add my two cents to the conversation since I've had experience with both of these boxes. It will be fun to look back in a few years and see if any of us had any idea what we were talking about.

Time4aGansett

Ask yourself this question... when you are ready to retire in 25 years, which box would you rather have in your collection?
Seems like an easy choice, no?

ClockworkAngel

<< <i>

<< <i>Are Tiger Woods and Lebron James icon's? >>


I would say yes to Tiger and no to Lebron. >>



Agreed. I think Tiger is an icon already.

LeBron seems to be more hated than liked. You may not have been a fan of Jordan or the Bulls, but just about everyone that followed basketball respected the hell out of Jordan. LeBron not so much. I think more root against him.

jordangretzkyfan

This is an easy choice...86/87 Fleer box is the better investment by a mile. A legit box goes for $20k-$22k right now which would buy you 40-44 boxes of 1993 SP. The key here is that you can find 300+ boxes of 1993 SP for every one box of 86/87 Fleer still left. There have been less than 10 legit boxes of 86/87 Fleer to surface in the past 7 years and I can find 20+ boxes of 1993 SP on eBay every day of the week. Couple that with the iconic nature of the small 143 card 86/87 Fleer set yielding 3.27 sets per box, loads of RC and HOFers and Jordan and this box will sell for $35-$50k in the next 10 years. Once Jeter retires, the 1993 SP box will drop in value until his HOF election at which time it will settle in at $500 until supply significantly dwindles 20 years from now. Best case the 1993 SP box is $750 ten years from now.

dmurphy3mvp

<< <i>There have been less than 10 legit boxes of 86/87 Fleer to surface in the past 7 years >>



...that you know of. I can guarantee this number is low.

BLUEJAYWAY

I would take the Fleer box due to it's player selection and the "mystique" of how many are really left out there legitimately never opened. There seems to be many threads/conversations here at least alluding to this fascination of how many are still out there. Also for the stickers. Even the empty box/wrappers are of value.

bigdcards

I am not faced with this decision because my whole collection is worth less than a box of '86 fleer BK. So I'd like to ask, is a 1993 SP wax box a better investment than a pack or two of '86 fleer. I'd say, take the box of sp BB.