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New to collecting, and not sure about this '95 Morgan
daOnlyBG
Posts: 1,060 ✭✭
Hello. I am new to both numismatics and the Collectors' forums. I suppose I've gotten bitten by the coin collecting bug, because I think I've learned quite a bit in a very short amount of time. Of course, I do recognize that I've barely scraped the tip of the ice berg and have a long way to go.
Today, I'm here to ask you about a certain coin I have in my collection: an 1895 Morgan Silver dollar.
I bought it at a garage sale at a relatively upscale neighborhood, for only its bullion value. A widow sold it to me, and told me her husband was a pretty avid coin collector. Anyway, she had it listed for bullion price, and having not known anything about them, I decided it was an OK buy. I didn't even know if it was real at the time, but I could tell it was silver (I used to work at a jewelry store, but that's another discussion). After doing my homework, I learned that the 1895 Morgan is one of the rarest Morgans. I looked for a mintmark and couldn't find any. One could only imagine my joyous reaction. I soon felt suspicious that it could be a fake, but after comparing the coin to other Morgans, I couldn't find any inconsistencies (remember, at the time, I knew virtually nothing about this hobby beside the fact that people hedged against inflation by purchasing bullion).
So, I took it to a coin dealer in downtown Chicago's jewelry district. He looked... closely... closer........ closer...... and then said, "It's not fake...BUT..."
But what?
"The mint mark has been altered. If you look very closely with a 10x loupe, you'll see the residue of an 'O' that's been sanded away." He proceeded to show me, and yeah, I think (?) I saw the residue.
"Whoever did this was trying to turn a $600 coin into a $6,000 coin. This isn't meant to fool guys like me, but more so guys like you."
He proceeded to make me an offer for $125, as long as I had it certified.
So my questions to you, dear readers, are the following:
(1) Has this happened to you during your purchases? Is education (or certification) really the only way to avoid these problems?
(2) What would you do in my situation? I'm just a student (trying to spend my money wisely), and I don't want to pay the fee to ship & have my coins graded if they're fake, or if NGC/ANACS?whoever won't even grade them. If I felt confident that the 3rd party grading agency was going to give me a (good) grading, I'd definitely mail it in.
(3) Do Morgan Silver dollars that are graded "damaged" have any market value? Do they sell? I don't want to sound like I'm just a trader looking to make a few bucks here and there (I'm not), but I'd like my collection to have very good coins (just like many of you) and I'd want to trade this Morgan Silver dollar up to a nice, legit one.
(4) I've included a picture in a link below. What would you grade it as, based off what you're seeing?
I appreciate the time you've taken to read this, and would be very grateful for any advice you could give me. As I learn more and more, I hope to someday contribute to the forum as well.
http://s13.postimage.org/7u2o72w1z/1895_O_MSD.png
Today, I'm here to ask you about a certain coin I have in my collection: an 1895 Morgan Silver dollar.
I bought it at a garage sale at a relatively upscale neighborhood, for only its bullion value. A widow sold it to me, and told me her husband was a pretty avid coin collector. Anyway, she had it listed for bullion price, and having not known anything about them, I decided it was an OK buy. I didn't even know if it was real at the time, but I could tell it was silver (I used to work at a jewelry store, but that's another discussion). After doing my homework, I learned that the 1895 Morgan is one of the rarest Morgans. I looked for a mintmark and couldn't find any. One could only imagine my joyous reaction. I soon felt suspicious that it could be a fake, but after comparing the coin to other Morgans, I couldn't find any inconsistencies (remember, at the time, I knew virtually nothing about this hobby beside the fact that people hedged against inflation by purchasing bullion).
So, I took it to a coin dealer in downtown Chicago's jewelry district. He looked... closely... closer........ closer...... and then said, "It's not fake...BUT..."
But what?
"The mint mark has been altered. If you look very closely with a 10x loupe, you'll see the residue of an 'O' that's been sanded away." He proceeded to show me, and yeah, I think (?) I saw the residue.
"Whoever did this was trying to turn a $600 coin into a $6,000 coin. This isn't meant to fool guys like me, but more so guys like you."
He proceeded to make me an offer for $125, as long as I had it certified.
So my questions to you, dear readers, are the following:
(1) Has this happened to you during your purchases? Is education (or certification) really the only way to avoid these problems?
(2) What would you do in my situation? I'm just a student (trying to spend my money wisely), and I don't want to pay the fee to ship & have my coins graded if they're fake, or if NGC/ANACS?whoever won't even grade them. If I felt confident that the 3rd party grading agency was going to give me a (good) grading, I'd definitely mail it in.
(3) Do Morgan Silver dollars that are graded "damaged" have any market value? Do they sell? I don't want to sound like I'm just a trader looking to make a few bucks here and there (I'm not), but I'd like my collection to have very good coins (just like many of you) and I'd want to trade this Morgan Silver dollar up to a nice, legit one.
(4) I've included a picture in a link below. What would you grade it as, based off what you're seeing?
I appreciate the time you've taken to read this, and would be very grateful for any advice you could give me. As I learn more and more, I hope to someday contribute to the forum as well.
http://s13.postimage.org/7u2o72w1z/1895_O_MSD.png
Successful BST transactions with: blu62vette, Shortgapbob, Dolan, valente151, cucamongacoin, ajaan
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
0
Comments
BV beat me to it!
If you bought it for bullion you are out nothing. If you bought it to fill a hole in a set then you need to keep looking. I would not send it in for grading; I would put it in a 2x2 and mark it "1895-O w/removed mint mark" to hopefully prevent someone downstream from being deceived.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
And yeah, I'll be marking it as a mint mark removed/polished coin. There's no reason to feel proud of fooling another person down the line.
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
If you're into Morgans, I suggest the Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars by David Bowers, JMO.
The coin pictured is highly undesirable, as you already know.
I don't even know if PCGS would even slab it? If they did, I'm not seeing any upside to being slabbed.
Sell it as is and disclose the polishing, which is obvious and removed MM.
Good luck with it,
Scott
I once handled a very similar coin in 1997. The owner entrusted me to take it to the A.N.A. in New York City, where it was also deemed an alteration by several third party certification services, after I had rendered the same opinion to the owner.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
have a nice time here.
Hah, maybe I'll put it up on Craigslist
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
The coin appears to be genuine but it is too hard to see the MM area to tell if there is any funny business going on there. The strange toning and how it ends right in that area concerns me the most but I can't say for sure from those pictures. There does appear to be a depression in the MM area however.
<< <i>ground off MM, polished. >>
what he said
<< <i>The coin is an alteration, not a fake. >>
Disagree. It's both. When a genuine coin is altered to look like a different coin, it's a fake.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire