Were US gold coins available in the 1960's?

OnlyGoldIsMoney

My modest coin collecting started in the mid 1960's with Lincoln Cents and Jefferson Nickels. At the time my weekly allowance of $1 limited my collecting.

I am wondering if US pre-1933 gold was available to collectors at coins shops and coin shows in the mid 1960's. Did it sell for a close to the official $35 per ounce price?

Overdate

Yes, they were available, but at a premium to bullion. These coins were one of the few ways U.S. citizens could own gold.

During the 1960's, prices of common $20's were usually in the $60 to $70 range (around $500 in today's dollars). I remember paying $18.75 for a common XF $5 liberty in 1964.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>Yes, they were available, but at a premium to bullion. These coins were one of the few ways U.S. citizens could own gold.

During the 1960's, prices of common $20's were usually in the $60 to $70 range (around $500 in today's dollars). I remember paying $18.75 for a common XF $5 liberty in 1964. >>




Thanks. A common $20 selling for $70 then would be about double the official spot of $35.

Coulport

I belonged to the coin club in 1962 when I first started building collections in folders rather than an accumulation in a tin box.
Double eagles were $47.50. That was way out of my reach just making $350 a month!

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>I belonged to the coin club in 1962 when I first started building collections in folders rather than an accumulation in a tin box.
Double eagles were $47.50. That was way out of my reach just making $350 a month! >>



Thanks for the bit of information. At $47.50 the premium over spot was about 36%.

$350 would have seemed a fortune to me in 1962. I thought weekly "milk money" was a lot of cash.

CaptHenway

In May of 1966 (I am sure of the month because it was just before my two oldest brothers got drafted on May 31st, and one of them drove me downtown) I bought a BU 1900-S $20 from Earl Shill in downtown Detroit for $50. At $35 gold melt was $33.86.

TD

Timbuk3

I remember common date Saints were
$40.00 and unc. $5.00 Indians were at $15.00.
Those were the days !!!

PerryHall

I bought my first gold coin in 1965. It was a BU 1927 Saint which cost me $47 and would grade at least MS63 using todays standards. I wish I still had it although I now have many other gold coins.

cladking

There were a lot of restrictions on modern gold. The 1967 Canadian gold couldn't legally be brought into the US.

cladking

If memory serves most of the restrictions weren't lifted until 1973.

roadrunner

An XF/AU $5 Lib was a collector's coin in the 1960's and carried a nice premium to gold. I posed the $20 to a "aged" dealer friend of mine. His recollection was that common
unc $20's traded in the $38/$44 range.

During the early 1960's the term "rare and unusual" gold coin from the 1934 Gold Reserve Act was redefined a bit. It exempted a number of pre-1960 foreign gold coins.
But since you could buy US 90% gold what difference did that make. Pittman, Eliasberg and others were buying scarcer circ "collector" gold coins in the 1950's with 50-100% premiums
to spot. That was one way to load up on gold. The international price of gold saw a spike up to $44 in 1969 but retreated as the first recession hit. I remember getting a VF 1924-d
Lincoln cent for my primary Christmas gift in 1964. If only I had been a gold bug then and gotten a circ $10 instead. The irony of this is that the 24-d Lincoln is still worth $25. Doh!

Swampboy

1969 a friend of mine opened a B & M. and offered me generic $20 libs at $55 ea.
He said he let 'em go at $60 over the counter.

If I could get some of this useless trivia out of my head I could probably be able to remember if I took my noon medication.

jmski52

I used to oogle the Liberty and Indian gold listed in the Blue Book and Red Book when I was a kid, but the prices were way out of reach for my kid's budget. I finally bought my first gold coin (Saint) in 1977. I was thinking about a $3.00 gold Princess at the time, but I decided that the premium was too much.

JamesMurray

Ive always believed the 1933 gold "confiscation" is something blown way out of proportion.I don't believe anyone came around demanding folks gold or that people gave up all their gold.Each US citizen for example could keep up to 5 oz's which when broken down is quite a bit of gold coinage and if there's a family of 4 under one roof then 20 oz was legal along with any collectible gold coins which many of the gold US coins were.
I think it's mainly smoke and mirrors to be polite and kept going by the sky is falling crowd.Pick up any early 60's redbook and there you'll find prices for gold coins , if it was illegal to own then why would it be in the redbook ? Short answer is it wasn't illegal to own gold coins.

mikeyg

Ahh this brings me back.In the late 60s,I started working and had saved faithfully,after all interest rates were 5%.I decided one weekend to buy a gold coin and brought $100 with me AND my father.At the coin shop,they had rows of $20 gold,libertys and st gaudens all for around $50 each.I was happy and wanted 2 coins but my father started yelling,"$50 is crazy gold is only $35 an ounce you're ripping us off.I was so red faced that I had to leave and the subject was dropped for good.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>Ive always believed the 1933 gold "confiscation" is something blown way out of proportion.I don't believe anyone came around demanding folks gold or that people gave up all their gold.Each US citizen for example could keep up to 5 oz's which when broken down is quite a bit of gold coinage and if there's a family of 4 under one roof then 20 oz was legal along with any collectible gold coins which many of the gold US coins were.
I think it's mainly smoke and mirrors to be polite and kept going by the sky is falling crowd.Pick up any early 60's redbook and there you'll find prices for gold coins , if it was illegal to own then why would it be in the redbook ? Short answer is it wasn't illegal to own gold coins. >>




Many modern day conspiracy afficiandos pump up the retirement of circulating gold in 1933 as confiscation. Some will claim owning US gold coins thereafter was criminal.

The numismatic exception was huge. Just imagine the stack of gold one would have by just saving one Double Eagle per year from 1850 to 1932. It was possible to assemble such a set in the 1920's and early 1930's. Add mint marks and anyone with the cash could have assembled 150 ounces plus of gold just in Double Eagles. Then add in $1 through $10 gold into the mix. The problem for most was that they did NOT have that kind of money to devote to buying gold. Those that could did so quite legally.

jmski52

The whole issue of confiscation was that the Treasury (and FDR) were trying to avoid was having gold shipped overseas in large amounts, which was happening until his executive order. The order did work as a wet blanket, even though only one or two cases were brought. And even better, it allowed FDR to devalue the dollar (in terms of gold going from $20/oz. to $35/oz.) in one fell swoop.

All the rest is speculation. Even though there were exemptions, gold was lower on the list of investment priorities because of the restrictions. And hey, if the government can fine you $10,000 or imprison you for crossing the line - the message was clear.

Nevertheless, some gold promoters pretend that the same rules would apply today if the government wanted to make life miserable for gold owners. Wrong! If the government wants to confiscate or tax gold today, why would anyone believe that they would exempt pre-1933 gold now? They've been issuing legal gold bullion coinage now for 26 years, and if they wanted to outlaw gold, I don't see that they would distinguish between pre-1933 vs. post-1985.

They do whatever they feel like doing with most other legal issues today. The don't need congressional action. If they want your gold, they'll take it no matter what the rules are. They have all the tools they'll ever need. Just one man's opinion.

JamesMurray

If they did not take people gold coins in 1933 what makes you think they would now or in the future ? Collectible coins were exempt and each citizen could keep 5oz forby the collectible ones , seems like a lot of loopholes for confiscation.

jmski52

If they did not take people gold coins in 1933 what makes you think they would now or in the future ?

They did, and they still will (Langsborg case) if the coins fall under the original order, as demonstrated just recently even though the violation occured 79 years ago and the order has been since rescinded.

Collectible coins were exempt and each citizen could keep 5oz forby the collectible ones , seems like a lot of loopholes for confiscation.

Read the executive order. $10,000 or imprisonment. You don't think that they meant it? Since most people didn't have 5 oz. of gold laying around then, the order didn't affect many people. You can bet that it affected people with 50 or 100 ounces, though.

That executive order is no longer in effect. They can make whatever new rules that suit their purposes. They already have stricter currency controls than ever before in our history, under the guise of anti-money laundering laws. You can't withdraw or deposit $10,000 in your own bank account now without flagging yourself as a potential problem. You already can't transfer or take much cash out of country without forfeiting a significant amount as a penalty tax. Did you not know this?

Let me turn the question around. What makes you so confident that they won't confiscate or outlaw gold if they want to replace one failed fiat currency with a new fiat currency? re: MF Global, Peregrine Financial - your personal, segregated account is already subject to confiscation by Jon Corzine-types with no recourse, legal or otherwise.

Yeah, yeah - I know, it could never happen here.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>Let me turn the question around. What makes you so confident that they won't confiscate or outlaw gold if they want to replace one failed fiat currency with a new fiat currency? re: MF Global, Peregrine Financial - your personal, segregated account is already subject to confiscation by Jon Corzine-types with no recourse, legal or otherwise. >>





If we assume an end of the rule of law confiscation of everything (cash, gold, land, homes, financial instruments) is possible.

JamesMurray

Im thinking we can't use the Langbord case as it was shown in a court of law they were not lawfully owned by the family. I'll go along with what you say about the majority of people did not have 5 oz of gold to keep so this "confiscation" did not in fact affect the vast majority of people. I keep hearing this 10 years in prison stuff , how many people went to jail ? Few if any , the whole thing is misrepresented as jewelry is gold but it wasn't confiscated and people who as you say had 100 oz or whatever it was over the 5 oz limit were compensated with legal tender so i really don't understand why the term confiscation even applies.I'm sure my Uncle Sam and his fed henchmen have better things to do than come after my holdings , why confiscate it when all they need do is tax the heck out of it and make it impossible to buy or sell.
What makes me so sure they can't have or take my gold or accounts of any nature is i don't have a bank account to grab and i have over 10 acres to dig a nice deep hole.Ive never had a credit card either so in the finance world i don't leave much of a footprint.Of course i have no intention of digging any hole to hide anything , i don't have the same deep mistrust of the US government as a lot of Americans seem to have.

rpw

Not only were US gold coins available in the 1960's but Mexican pesos were as well. Even then I loved gold and started collecting currency, which later became my primary focus, by purchasing a large size $10 Gold Certificate for $17. Anyway, I really desired a gold coin and could not afford a US coin so I saw a Mexican 2 1/2 peso and bought it. I don't recall the price but it was not expensive at all. A "dos y medio" was only 0.06028 troy ounces so not much gold either. I recall reading at the time that Mexico was running a scam to sell gold to US consumers. They could sell coins minted before a certain date (might have been 1945) and they kept making the coins and not incrementing the date at all and selling into the US and Uncle Sugar turned a blind eye to it. Anyone remember anything else about that?