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Thanks HA, PCGS and TDN!

ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 12, 2017 11:12PM in U.S. Coin Forum
The AT Gobrecht is no longer for sale.

It's good to see the hobby taking action to protect collectors. image

Comments

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is good news. What will be even better news is a (hopeful) announcement that the coin is now raw and the perpetrator is sued.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd like hear an announcement on the coin status as well.

    Part of me wonders if we'll just see this coin show up for sale again in the future.
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I missed the photos of it. Did anyone save the photos?
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • DonWillisDonWillis Posts: 961 ✭✭✭
    PCGS now has the coin.



  • << <i>That is good news. What will be even better news is a (hopeful) announcement that the coin is now raw and the perpetrator is sued. >>




    Has there ever been a legal precendece set where conservation/ doctoring with the intent to get a better opinion from the TPGs has been linked with fraud? While the Ana and TPG consider it not cool, I am not sure a good lawyer couldn't correlate it to repaintig a car before selling it and having it aprasied before taking it to market.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Has there ever been a legal precendece set where conservation/ doctoring with the intent to get a better opinion from the TPGs has been linked with fraud? While the Ana and TPG consider it not cool, I am not sure a good lawyer couldn't correlate it to repaintig a car before selling it and having it aprasied before taking it to market. >>



    Breach of submission contract.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>PCGS now has the coin. >>



    That is very good news Don.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Was this the fruity 64 image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.

    Kudos to PCGS. image
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    I'm lost in this conversation.....background (thread) please image


  • << <i>

    << <i>Has there ever been a legal precendece set where conservation/ doctoring with the intent to get a better opinion from the TPGs has been linked with fraud? While the Ana and TPG consider it not cool, I am not sure a good lawyer couldn't correlate it to repaintig a car before selling it and having it aprasied before taking it to market. >>



    Breach of submission contract. >>



    I don't know the full story here but if the coin was good enough to fool PCGS and Heritage, is it possible that the submitter didn't know it was doctored?
    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin


    My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HA just updated the lot title and description:



    << <i>This item is currently being reviewed by our catalogers and photographers. A written description will be available along with high resolution images soon. >>

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS now has the coin.

    I'd love to see the coin dipped and compare it to the image of the coin before it was artificially toned. In a thread, of course. It might be very educational.

    And to whatever extent it shows how badly PCGS screwed up grading it, it will doubly prove the need for their services.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • michiganboymichiganboy Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭
    This is a sad ending for such a rare coin. Sorry to be so uninformed but I remeber the thread saying the coin was originaly in a details NGC holder IIRC. Then it got somehoe regraded at PCGS in a non details holder. When I originaly seen the thread I wondered if maybe NGC wrongly deemed it AT and that is why it was graded at PCGS. We've seen this before, not saying thats the case because it did look kinda AT but I'm not really an all out toning expert. So what sthe real scoop I guess is what I'm asking.
    Positive BST transactions:michaeldixon,nibanny,
    type2,CCHunter.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This is a sad ending for such a rare coin. Sorry to be so uninformed but I remeber the thread saying the coin was originaly in a details NGC holder IIRC. Then it got somehoe regraded at PCGS in a non details holder. When I originaly seen the thread I wondered if maybe NGC wrongly deemed it AT and that is why it was graded at PCGS. We've seen this before, not saying thats the case because it did look kinda AT but I'm not really an all out toning expert. So what sthe real scoop I guess is what I'm asking. >>



    It was bright white and cleaned in the Details Holder. It then was artificially toned and graded.
  • michiganboymichiganboy Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭
    Thanks TDN, now I got it.
    Positive BST transactions:michaeldixon,nibanny,
    type2,CCHunter.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a sad ending for such a rare coin.

    This is hardly the end for the coin.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This is a sad ending for such a rare coin.

    This is hardly the end for the coin. >>



    I agree. If HA's description is to be believed, the coin will soon be up for sale again.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>This is a sad ending for such a rare coin.

    This is hardly the end for the coin. >>



    I agree. If HA's description is to be believed, the coin will soon be up for sale again. >>



    I dunno - isn't the $100k IHC up on the wall at PCGS?
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    isn't the $100k IHC up on the wall at PCGS?

    First, the PR69RD Indian Cent was "only" 30 or 40K.

    And considering that the Indian was really only worth a grand or so, it wasn't crazy to nail it to the wall of the grading room.

    However, the 39 Gobrecht is worth 20K or more raw, so I doubt it's going on anyone's wall. It will turn up again, probably sooner than later.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,393 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They cancelled my bid w/o telling me?? image

    image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    First, the PR69RD Indian Cent was "only" 30 or 40K.

    I dare say that much then is worth more than the Gobrecht now.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    <<

    <<

    <<

    << This is a sad ending for such a rare coin. >>

    This is hardly the end for the coin. >>

    I agree. If HA's description is to be believed, the coin will soon be up for sale again. >

    I dunno - isn't the $100k IHC up on the wall at PCGS? >>



    That precedent is a possibility; however, HA seems to believe the coin is coming back to them to be sold.

    It would be good to hear from PCGS on this.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2016 8:32AM
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2016 10:55AM

    @MrEureka said:

    @michiganboy said:
    This is a sad ending for such a rare coin.

    This is hardly the end for the coin.

    Do we know the status and whereabouts of this coin now?

    Do we know who the doctor was?

  • I'm a new member who is posting for the first time. I am compelled to do so because I am utterly astounded.

    My 60 years experience in numismatics notwithstanding, that coin would have fooled me any day.

    That practitioner should have been awarded a doctorate degree with high honors! It was a magnificent job that turned a circulated dog to an eye-appealing mint state coin. That doctor was a magician!

    Doctoring and all the gradeinflation, crackouts and other shenanigans will cause me to think twice about adding to my collection.

    Most say that the grading services have been a big plus. Maybe so, maybe not. Their business model is flawed as they have to invent reasons to motivate folks to resubmit. hence the gradeinflation, doctoring, crackouts, stickering and all that stuff.

    Enough is enough!

    The numismatic hobby/business has enough problems with the greying of America and the demographics are only going to worsen. All these shenanigans will only serve to drive folks further away.

    The end is near!

  • JBNJBN Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. Just based on pictures, the coin looks unencumbered. The history of a details/cleaning holder transition to a MS holder is equally disturbing. Notice we didn't see a CAC approval. Over the years, we have seen examples of holdered coins that had problems, but no CAC. For collectors (especially newer collectors) without high-level grading talent and who are buying without expert assistance/advice or in-hand inspection, having that 'belt and suspenders' protection of a TPG and CAC offers the best protection.

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