Thanks HA, PCGS and TDN!
Zoins
Posts: 34,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
The AT Gobrecht is no longer for sale.
It's good to see the hobby taking action to protect collectors.
It's good to see the hobby taking action to protect collectors.
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Part of me wonders if we'll just see this coin show up for sale again in the future.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>That is good news. What will be even better news is a (hopeful) announcement that the coin is now raw and the perpetrator is sued. >>
Has there ever been a legal precendece set where conservation/ doctoring with the intent to get a better opinion from the TPGs has been linked with fraud? While the Ana and TPG consider it not cool, I am not sure a good lawyer couldn't correlate it to repaintig a car before selling it and having it aprasied before taking it to market.
<< <i>Has there ever been a legal precendece set where conservation/ doctoring with the intent to get a better opinion from the TPGs has been linked with fraud? While the Ana and TPG consider it not cool, I am not sure a good lawyer couldn't correlate it to repaintig a car before selling it and having it aprasied before taking it to market. >>
Breach of submission contract.
<< <i>PCGS now has the coin. >>
That is very good news Don.
Kudos to PCGS.
<< <i>
<< <i>Has there ever been a legal precendece set where conservation/ doctoring with the intent to get a better opinion from the TPGs has been linked with fraud? While the Ana and TPG consider it not cool, I am not sure a good lawyer couldn't correlate it to repaintig a car before selling it and having it aprasied before taking it to market. >>
Breach of submission contract. >>
I don't know the full story here but if the coin was good enough to fool PCGS and Heritage, is it possible that the submitter didn't know it was doctored?
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>This item is currently being reviewed by our catalogers and photographers. A written description will be available along with high resolution images soon. >>
I'd love to see the coin dipped and compare it to the image of the coin before it was artificially toned. In a thread, of course. It might be very educational.
And to whatever extent it shows how badly PCGS screwed up grading it, it will doubly prove the need for their services.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
type2,CCHunter.
<< <i>This is a sad ending for such a rare coin. Sorry to be so uninformed but I remeber the thread saying the coin was originaly in a details NGC holder IIRC. Then it got somehoe regraded at PCGS in a non details holder. When I originaly seen the thread I wondered if maybe NGC wrongly deemed it AT and that is why it was graded at PCGS. We've seen this before, not saying thats the case because it did look kinda AT but I'm not really an all out toning expert. So what sthe real scoop I guess is what I'm asking. >>
It was bright white and cleaned in the Details Holder. It then was artificially toned and graded.
type2,CCHunter.
This is hardly the end for the coin.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>This is a sad ending for such a rare coin.
This is hardly the end for the coin. >>
I agree. If HA's description is to be believed, the coin will soon be up for sale again.
<< <i>
<< <i>This is a sad ending for such a rare coin.
This is hardly the end for the coin. >>
I agree. If HA's description is to be believed, the coin will soon be up for sale again. >>
I dunno - isn't the $100k IHC up on the wall at PCGS?
First, the PR69RD Indian Cent was "only" 30 or 40K.
And considering that the Indian was really only worth a grand or so, it wasn't crazy to nail it to the wall of the grading room.
However, the 39 Gobrecht is worth 20K or more raw, so I doubt it's going on anyone's wall. It will turn up again, probably sooner than later.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I dare say that much then is worth more than the Gobrecht now.
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<< This is a sad ending for such a rare coin. >>
This is hardly the end for the coin. >>
I agree. If HA's description is to be believed, the coin will soon be up for sale again. >
I dunno - isn't the $100k IHC up on the wall at PCGS? >>
That precedent is a possibility; however, HA seems to believe the coin is coming back to them to be sold.
It would be good to hear from PCGS on this.
Do we know the status and whereabouts of this coin now?
Do we know who the doctor was?
I'm a new member who is posting for the first time. I am compelled to do so because I am utterly astounded.
My 60 years experience in numismatics notwithstanding, that coin would have fooled me any day.
That practitioner should have been awarded a doctorate degree with high honors! It was a magnificent job that turned a circulated dog to an eye-appealing mint state coin. That doctor was a magician!
Doctoring and all the gradeinflation, crackouts and other shenanigans will cause me to think twice about adding to my collection.
Most say that the grading services have been a big plus. Maybe so, maybe not. Their business model is flawed as they have to invent reasons to motivate folks to resubmit. hence the gradeinflation, doctoring, crackouts, stickering and all that stuff.
Enough is enough!
The numismatic hobby/business has enough problems with the greying of America and the demographics are only going to worsen. All these shenanigans will only serve to drive folks further away.
The end is near!
Wow. Just based on pictures, the coin looks unencumbered. The history of a details/cleaning holder transition to a MS holder is equally disturbing. Notice we didn't see a CAC approval. Over the years, we have seen examples of holdered coins that had problems, but no CAC. For collectors (especially newer collectors) without high-level grading talent and who are buying without expert assistance/advice or in-hand inspection, having that 'belt and suspenders' protection of a TPG and CAC offers the best protection.