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pcgs and ngc dont always disagree...

joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
This just made me laugh image
(the coin is now raw)


From the upcoming long beach sale.


Lot 1445

1881-O. MS-65. A satiny white gem. Sent to both PCGS and NGC with each grading this example MS-64+. Our opinion is that this example should be graded MS-65 (both tags are included). See for yourself if you don't agree.
Estimated Value $800 - 850.

may the fonz be with you...always...

Comments

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What good are two loose slab labels? You can't prove they belong to any particular coin. Of course, with that auction description people will bid the lower label grade of MS64 rather than the auction description grade of MS65.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    I looked all over Heritage auctions and could not find this lot. Then, I remembered there were other auction houses. What a joke, the Goldberg's lot description. They would have been better off forgetting to mention anything about the grading services. The coin is what it is, RAW.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's AU bid for that?
    image
    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AU= $34
    ms64=$155
    ms65=$1170
    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭
    It appears their target audience for this coin are people who can grade coins themselves, not label buyers. Whether or not that's a mistake remains to be seen, I suppose.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What good are two loose slab labels? You can't prove they belong to any particular coin. Of course, with that auction description people will bid the lower label grade of MS64 rather than the auction description grade of MS65. >>



    Sure you can. You can look up NGC coins (and PCGS, no?) if they've been slabbed relatively recently, you'll find images of the coin at least on the NGC site.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • Dollar2007Dollar2007 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭
    Link
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>No way it goes 65. No way. I'd grade it MS64 flat from the photo. >>

    image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭
    No way it goes 65. No way. I'd grade it MS64 flat from the photo.
    Multi-channel listings of coins and inventory management

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  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>No way it goes 65. No way. I'd grade it MS64 flat from the photo. >>

    Copied from above:

    ms64=$155
    ms65=$1170

    I would suggest this is not a coin to grade by a photo on the internet.
  • JCMhoustonJCMhouston Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭
    Mr. Potatoeheadd must like that coin for some reason.

    If both TPG's graded it 64+ there is a good chance that's what it is, in my opinion, others may vary.
    JCM-Houston
    World Collection
    British Collection
    German States Collection
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Mr. Potatoeheadd must like that coin for some reason. >>

    I have no opinion of the coin. My point (I guess I need to state it again) is that for a coin with that sort of price spread between grades, looking at online picture is not good enough.
  • stealerstealer Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>No way it goes 65. No way. I'd grade it MS64 flat from the photo. >>


    I say 64+ is reasonable, but there's no way the coin would ever gem.

  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All those ugly little cuts on the face don't convince me I'm looking at a Gem. In addition, the fact that the coin is housed in neither holder indicates it was sent in a third time and graded even lower.
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,996 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What good are two loose slab labels? You can't prove they belong to any particular coin. Of course, with that auction description people will bid the lower label grade of MS64 rather than the auction description grade of MS65. >>

    image
  • JustlookingJustlooking Posts: 2,895 ✭


    << <i>All those ugly little cuts on the face don't convince me I'm looking at a Gem. In addition, the fact that the coin is housed in neither holder indicates it was sent in a third time and graded even lower. >>



    That sounds right to me. Too many marks, and the gash on the eagle's breast looks kinda deep.
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,852 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What good are two loose slab labels? You can't prove they belong to any particular coin. Of course, with that auction description people will bid the lower label grade of MS64 rather than the auction description grade of MS65. >>



    Sure you can. You can look up NGC coins (and PCGS, no?) if they've been slabbed relatively recently, you'll find images of the coin at least on the NGC site. >>



    Unless it was recently slabbed there will be no pics. Even if there were pics it wouldn't help getting that same coin and label back in a slab. Once a coin has been cracked out it has to go through the normal grading process since the coin may have been messed with (dipped or otherwise "improved") by the owner after the coin was cracked out.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • RevDrBlimberRevDrBlimber Posts: 391
    The coin should be in a certified holder, I am surprised that PNG dealers are pulling this kind of malarky.

    Look at the PNG code of ethics:

    http://www.pngdealers.com/category.php?category_id=6

    While they may not be in violation of the letter of law, it is unseemly for such dealers to be doing this.
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "... I am surprised that PNG dealers are pulling this kind of malarky."

    Really? I'm surprised that you're surprised.image
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • RevDrBlimberRevDrBlimber Posts: 391
    I can't sell a coin except it is certified through auction. That is more or less necessary with HA and the others. The problem with the upgrade game is that there are no guarantees with raw re-submissions, there is the chance that the coin has been damaged in getting cracked out and resubmitted.
  • RodebaughRodebaugh Posts: 304 ✭✭✭
    Rev center is just a tad weak to be gem IMO.
  • RevDrBlimberRevDrBlimber Posts: 391
    Here is an example of a coin, a $20 Lib. 1872-cc that a friend bought raw at a Stacks auction back in the 1980s: http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1159&lotNo=4489

    The listed it as CU or AU58 with Stacks before grading had taken off. The friend showed it to a couple experts in this field who thought it was around MS60. It would not get a numerical grade, so HA ran it as a details coin.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>While they may not be in violation of the letter of law, it is unseemly for such dealers to be doing this. >>

    Doing what? Offering a raw coin in their auction? Claiming the coin is a higer grade than the one a TPG assigned? Don't people disagree with the TPGs all the time? Sure they do- just check some of the threads posted here.

    Do you suppose it's possible that the auction house advised their client that the coin should be regaded before auction but the consignor declined and insisted that it be sold raw?

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