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More Chutzpah!

So a few days ago a buyer from Israel wins two ebay listings of mine - total $810 -

I specifically stated no OVERSEAS bidding/shipping etc.
I have no problem with Israel whatsoever but the CROATIA fiasco I had with that lost Taler (nope it never came back to me returned to senderimage ) had left that bad taste many of us discussed here - so I went ahead and cancelled the sale.

get this - he disagrees and insists I do the deal (that means pay via pay pal - you know all the rest) Ebay cancels the sale and charges me Final Value whatever fees BECAUSE he did that - obviously angry I won't ship him!

####Hi marcmoish,

The buyer, b----------a, has rejected your request to cancel the transaction for (#110934891901) . As a result, you will not receive a Final Value Fee credit for this transaction. Please complete this transaction with the buyer.
####


two messages of many to me:

####Dear marcmoish,your listing clearly states that you accept paypal, and does not say you do not ship outside the US, should we let Ebay decide? how did you expect me to pay? why do you keep threatening to cancel the sale? I do not understand your way of doing buisness?- b---------a
####

and

####Dear marcmoish,I tried to pay you and paypal said you canceled the sale??????????I have over 1700 positive feedbacks and a 100% rating, I have no idea what you are doing?it has never happend to me before?Bobby- b---------a
####

if that is not despicable I don't know what is.
Please complete this transaction with the buyer???? HUH???
And there is nothing to do right?
I am very disheartened with this system indeed.

Comments

  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭✭
    lets see a link.
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From the tone of his e-mail, it sounds like a problem waiting to happen. Bail now, before you lose anything more.
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/110934891901?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1562.l2649



    ye prue agreed but just seeing how there is only between a rock and a hard place state of being here as one is doomed no matter - as long as both ebay and paypal reap zillions from the tiny people 24/7 I guess its all good whatever!


    edited to add: its sad b/c I shipped him a few wins in April and it went great - sure as long as nothing happens to the shipment - sad!
  • JCMhoustonJCMhouston Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭
    You need to update your listing template and click the boxes to exclude overseas shipping. That way if they are registered overseas ebay won't even let the bid go in.
  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just add $30 express insured cost.
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you've already done business with the guy, then I take it back. Just cover yourself with the shipping like Zohar said.
  • I agree. Ship insured.

    BTW where on the page does it say no overseas bidding/shipping etc ? Has it been removed because the listing has ended ?
  • AndresAndres Posts: 977 ✭✭✭
    Click: see original listing

    it says under Shipping : ships to the United States.
    meaning the seller (Marc) doesn't ship overseas.

    If you dont want bids from overseas bidders, do as JCM-Houston suggested.
    and add in the listing text: I DONT SHIP OVERSEAS !!!



    collector of Greek banknotes - most beautifull world banknotes - Greek & Roman ancient coins.
  • theboz11theboz11 Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭
    Send him a torn envelope, and when he says it did not get there, refund his money. End of problem.
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I still wonder why I gave up selling cr@p on fleeBay back in 2008...



    ...oh I miss the drama buyers.
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    correct AnDRES it does say I always state it - stated until I'm blue in the face makes no difference folks always bid whatever...the buyers know the loopholes frankly I'm comfortable buying too if I'm the buyer it's great I'm protected period any way you look at it image


    Z - $30 which method? Fedex? elaborate as that might work.


    Prue yes it hurts b/c I realize I did biz with this guy in April and he was very satisfied but at that time it was pre CROATIA fiasco (ok for full disclosure I have nothing at all against Croatia sheees promise!!), and that buyer of that Taler had EXCELLENT feedback too absolutely no problem at all and frankly in my heart I will assume he NEVER got the coin either - yet I did lose money and so although present buyer/winner has excellent feedback too how can I ship normal paypal/ebay methods and RISK again if the package gets lost in route?
  • DeiGratiaDeiGratia Posts: 273 ✭✭✭

    USPS Postal Restrictions By Country - Israel

    Country Conditions for Mailing — Israel

    Restrictions
    Coins; banknotes; currency notes (paper money); securities payable to bearer; traveler’s checks; platinum, gold or silver, manufactured or not; precious stones; jewelry; and other valuable articles may only be sent in registered First-Class Mail International shipments.
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Z its over 40 bucks but regardless its a problem - this clearly stated on the web site at RESTRICTIONS:

    Restrictions
    Coins; banknotes; currency notes (paper money); securities payable to bearer; traveler’s checks; platinum, gold or silver, manufactured or not; precious stones; jewelry; and other valuable articles may only be sent in registered First-Class Mail International shipments.
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,264 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Coins, as meant here are legal tender coins, NOT collectors coins.
    BUT that is nor here nor there.
    To avoid all this, all you have to do is to set up a send to countries exclusion list within your Feebay profile.
    To feebay it does not matter what you have in your description You can block the world in your description, it will not matter.
    Key is to do it where they can automatically see it in their system. the guy would have never been able to bid, had you set it up that way.
    he would then need to contact you and ask you to allow him to bid (after you both agree to terms)
    but, perhaps you are seeing a problem when there is none...
    Send the coins in a security (tamper proof) envelope, declare it properly as Numismatic items ( not coins) ( or auction items) , include a feebay invoice and ship it express mail , signature of receipient required.
    Courier would also be an excellent method... In addition you might consider having a note to Israeli customs on the envelope, asking them to open the shipment for inspection. ( never done that, but it might give you peace of mind.) let your buyer know.
    another way is to ask him for feedback BEFORE you ship, and give him your reasons.
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does anyone use Insurepost.com here?
    Is that an option?
    Shipping Overseas say usps priority (probably express better since they scan the packages thruout) might be viable if so?

    Anyone try a claim with them or anything?
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭
    Even before reading the fact that you've dealt with this guy before without issues, I was going to say "ship it at whatever cost it takes to get full insurance". In my opinion, if you/Ebay doesn't block a buyer from bidding, and they bid and win, the coin is theirs. But having not asked you before the auction ended for a shipping quote, now you can basically quote them whatever you want for shipping.

    You're fully within your right to charge him an insane shipping cost (be it FedEx or some other private courier) to protect yourself from mail loss/damage for an overseas shipment. But you're NOT within your right to tell the buyer than can't have the coin he won and that you won't do anything but cancel the sale. If she shoe were on the other foot (say you won a rare piece from an overseas seller at a good price) and he told you, the auction winner, that he wouldn't do anything but cancel the sale, you'd be rightfully miffed too.

    If you are 100% against shipping anywhere other than the USA, that's fine, but you absolutely need to go into the listing/preferences and block every other country from being able to bid on your auction. Simply only showing a shipping quote for USA destinations isn't enough. FWIW, I'd only exclude certain countries. When selling world coins you can really hurt your bottom line by not shipping to countries with collectors of what you are selling. eg the Israel-dwelling buyer of your Palestinian coin.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭
    Case in point for my last point: Based on the bidding history on your coin there, you may well have ended up with only $240 for it had he not bid and triggered the other person's proxy bid of $540.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You need to update your listing template and click the boxes to exclude overseas shipping. That way if they are registered overseas ebay won't even let the bid go in. >>


    Actually, I have had many listings go to overseas buyers even though I clicked the box to exclude overseas shipping. I think it's actually a drop-down menu, but that's irrelevant. eBay lets them bid anyway, and when they win, I explain that overseas shipping will be $16.95 Priority Mail International for tracking or else Registered (which is sometimes more). Sometimes they pay, sometimes they don't. When the sale expires due to "buyer did not pay" it looks bad on their account but I have no penalty. When they complain and ask to cancel the transaction, neither of our accounts are hurt. So far this has been annoying but no long-term problems on my account status.
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Poker you got me thinking...you have very valid points...yes I would have been miffed....perhaps in the end that is what I should have done/do....I am now only thinking if to ship UPS or USPS Express .w/insurance via insurepost.com or other avenues like that.

    You need to understand the last thing I wanted to do was irritate anyone at all - obviously my actions did to said buyer but I'm coming off a mini knock on the head for me....I lost over 700 bucks in a stupid paypal playbook screw the seller fiasco...like many here pointed out equally having had similar problems in the past.

    I'm also unsure about "coins" v/s numismatic collector coins - its a grey area it seems.

    Unsure if anyone here has had a claim or any negative stuff doing that.


  • << <i>You're fully within your right to charge him an insane shipping cost (be it FedEx or some other private courier) to protect yourself from mail loss/damage for an overseas shipment. But you're NOT within your right to tell the buyer than can't have the coin he won and that you won't do anything but cancel the sale. >>

    The seller has every right to tell the buyer he can't have the coin when the buyer ignores the seller's specified shipping terms.
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Actually, I have had many listings go to overseas buyers even though I clicked the box to exclude overseas shipping. I think it's actually a drop-down menu, but that's irrelevant. >>



    I believe it is in your seller account preferences. I had to manually check a box for each continent/country that I wanted to exclude from all my listings. Once you do it this way, it's actually quite hard to unblock a single country for a bidder who wants to bid on one of your auctions.




    << <i>

    << <i>You're fully within your right to charge him an insane shipping cost (be it FedEx or some other private courier) to protect yourself from mail loss/damage for an overseas shipment. But you're NOT within your right to tell the buyer than can't have the coin he won and that you won't do anything but cancel the sale. >>

    The seller has every right to tell the buyer he can't have the coin when the buyer ignores the seller's specified shipping terms. >>



    I am sill not seeing any specific statement regarding not shipping overseas in the original listing. Nothing in the description at all about shipping/not shipping. I myself (from Canada) have bid on plenty of auctions where the seller didn't explicitly say no shipping outside of the USA and where in the shipping details it said only "Ships to: United States". I do always ask first for the cost though. I'd estimate 80% of sellers reply back with a reasonable shipping cost, 10% an unreasonable (IMO) cost, and 10 say they won't ship it.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • When you click the "Shipping and payments" tab:

    image

    It says: "Item location/Shipping to US"

    Click the Change country dropdown to "Show all available" and click "Get rates". If the country you want to have thge item shipped to isn't listed, the seller doesn't ship there.

    << <i>I do always ask first for the cost though. >>

    Too bad the buyer in this case wasn't as considerate.

    edited to add... under "Payment details" it says this: "International bidders please use an American contact/shipping address." Looks like the bidder ignored that, too.
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think you can make a case if you call eBay and explain what happened. In the future, I'd suggest making it more clear that you don't ship overseas, although you did effectively write that in the shipping information.

    My experience has been fine shipping Express Mail to most any part of the globe, and I use it exclusively for packages valued over $400. I do have private insurance to cover any potential losses, but I don't think Express has ever had one. First Class is where the real problem lies, and that often depends on the country. Many countries with good post offices are fine with First Class, but others I refuse to ship to without Registered/Express due to poor post offices. In the end, though, it's your comfort level and your risk. You may wish to block buyers from countries where you don't ship to avoid this in the future.

    Jeremy
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research


  • << <i>You may wish to block buyers from countries where you don't ship to avoid this in the future. >>

    This is probably the best solution.

    The seller here appears to be trying to accomodate international bidders by allowing them to have their winnings shipped to a US address but obviously, the message didn't get through as intended. Another "No good deed goes unpunished" effort, I'd say.
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