To All Detectives, Sleuths & Investigative Reporters
CocoaBeachDodgers
Posts: 750 ✭✭✭
I have a little story for you all:
About 4 years ago, a friend of mine had a high end Morgan Dollar PCGS collection. It was a pedigree collection, the "Ray George Collection". He had decided to move his collection in a different direction and he knew that I, at the time, was an Ebay seller. So he ask for my help listing them, which I was more than happy to help him out.
The collection was quite large, and scanning all these coins would be very time consuming. Than I discovered that a few months earlier, he had consigned them with Herritage but withdrew them as they were selling to low. (I don't know the details of that, but I think he just called them & told them to pull them out) Point being, there were scans of these I could pick up from the past auctions, and they were quite good scans, front & back.
So, I went on to list these coins, some of them with BIN's of over $20,000. Many from the $1000 to the $$8000 range. They started selling quickly, he would mail them out the same day, over night express. Everything was on the up & up. They were his coins, his pedigree, he was receiving excellent feedback. Than all of a sudden, he called me upset about the PCGS message board. Somebody was accusing him and saying these auctions were a scam. That he was selling somebody's else collection or that you would not receive your coins, that he just got these scans from Herritage, that he didn't have the coins, etc...
His sales just about came to a halt. He had to call customers to explain this was real. It was a mess for him, all because somebody saw that the scans were from Herritage but didn't have all the information before they started accusing. Of course, once one person pointed out a possible wrong doing, than the others jumped on the band wagon, & we all know how that can be on these forums.
So, the point of this short story that I managed to turn into a long story, is before you call somebody out, try to be sure or get as much information as possible because you can do some serious harm here. A lot of collectors read these forums, some don't participate, but they are out there.
About 4 years ago, a friend of mine had a high end Morgan Dollar PCGS collection. It was a pedigree collection, the "Ray George Collection". He had decided to move his collection in a different direction and he knew that I, at the time, was an Ebay seller. So he ask for my help listing them, which I was more than happy to help him out.
The collection was quite large, and scanning all these coins would be very time consuming. Than I discovered that a few months earlier, he had consigned them with Herritage but withdrew them as they were selling to low. (I don't know the details of that, but I think he just called them & told them to pull them out) Point being, there were scans of these I could pick up from the past auctions, and they were quite good scans, front & back.
So, I went on to list these coins, some of them with BIN's of over $20,000. Many from the $1000 to the $$8000 range. They started selling quickly, he would mail them out the same day, over night express. Everything was on the up & up. They were his coins, his pedigree, he was receiving excellent feedback. Than all of a sudden, he called me upset about the PCGS message board. Somebody was accusing him and saying these auctions were a scam. That he was selling somebody's else collection or that you would not receive your coins, that he just got these scans from Herritage, that he didn't have the coins, etc...
His sales just about came to a halt. He had to call customers to explain this was real. It was a mess for him, all because somebody saw that the scans were from Herritage but didn't have all the information before they started accusing. Of course, once one person pointed out a possible wrong doing, than the others jumped on the band wagon, & we all know how that can be on these forums.
So, the point of this short story that I managed to turn into a long story, is before you call somebody out, try to be sure or get as much information as possible because you can do some serious harm here. A lot of collectors read these forums, some don't participate, but they are out there.
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Comments
<< <i>I'm kinda thinking you shouldn't have taken somebody's scans for your own auctions and should have been aware of the possible consequences when doing so. >>
We actually did think of that but for a different reason. He had a person that he dealt with at Herritage which he called to make sure they did not mind. Also, to me a close up of a coin is a close up of a coin! And we were not doing anything wrong, we had permission. The only way you would know they were the same exact picture is that some had the same glare on the picture.
But wouldn't a simple email or some type of contact be a better way to go instead of attacking him on an important forum. It's been about 4 years now, and I can't remember every detail, but I do remember Ray telling me the person was pretty brutal. Ray even contacted this person, I beleive by phone, and the guy would not beleive it was Ray. Remember, this was a pedigree set and all the slabs had Ray's name on them. Another thing that was a shame about this whole deal is that if you knew Ray, you would know he is a very nice & genuis person.
The point of this thread was just to get somebody to think before they attacked. So often, as I read these threads, people will make statements to quickly without knowing the facts.
Also, by no means, if you think there is a possible scam going on, should you not do anything. We all depend on each other to learn and be watchdogs, just try to get as much information as possible before accusing.
By the way, I find it interesting that your only comment or the only thing you seemed to get out of my thread, was finding fault in me trying to save some time doing a buddy a favor. Interesting!
Guess I could have said it sucks that that happened to you and your friend - it does
And I do agree that jumping to conclusions sucks but all could have been avoided if you had used your own scans. Hence, my first comment.
If I was selling something for 20k plus, I would make pretty damn sure there could be no doubts that I had the item
<< <i>Not sure what other comments or opinions you would be looking for? That does seem to be the only issue I see
Guess I could have said it sucks that that happened to you and your friend - it does
And I do agree that jumping to conclusions sucks but all could have been avoided if you had used your own scans. Hence, my first comment.
If I was selling something for 20k plus, I would make pretty damn sure there could be no doubts that I had the item >>
For arguement sake and in retrospect, your right, I should have scanned front & back of all 100 or so coins. But the point of this thread is suppose to be that there was no scam going on like the accuser brutally claimed. He was wrong, he jumped the gun without all the information and caused serious problems. But that was a long time ago and I'm just using that as an example of what has been happening here now.
Me being wrong about using the scans does not make it right for this person to do what he did. That would be the same as if I left a knife on the counter & you grabbed it and killed somebody, you would be arrested for murder, not me. In retrospect, I should not have left the knife on the counter. But that does not make it right for you to stab somebody.
Using another example rather than my experience 4 years ago, recently there was a thread started suggesting the Black Swamp find was all a hoax. Plenty of people jumped on the bandwagon. In my thinking, I starting wondering if that was possible also. Than Joe O comes on and points out an article with a lot of information that pretty much blows that theory. If the creater of the thread & all the bandwagon jumpers had done some reserch & found that article, all that mud slinging would have been eliminated. Now this is just another example of many, I not looking to debate if the Black Swamp find is real or not. My point is again, do your reserch before slinging the mud.
<< <i>Than all of a sudden, he called me upset about the PCGS message board. Somebody was accusing him and saying these auctions were a scam. >>
IMO, if he responded directly to the accusations and with full disclosure, I'd bet the peanut gallery would back off. On the other hand, if he did a dodge duck dip dive dodge, then I would understand the skepticism.
<< <i>So, the point of this short story that I managed to turn into a long story, is before you call somebody out, try to be sure or get as much information as possible because you can do some serious harm here. A lot of collectors read these forums, some don't participate, but they are out there.
I couldn't agree more. However, when the party(ies) in question refuse to offer any sort of response other than one that ignores all of the issues in question, it's pretty difficult to continue to give said party(ies) the benefit of the doubt.
While in your case, the situation sounds like it was on the up & up. It sounds like you and your friend were more than willing to respond to the allegations and explain what was going on. Others who are being questioned will not. Their silence is deafening.
<< <i>
<< <i>Than all of a sudden, he called me upset about the PCGS message board. Somebody was accusing him and saying these auctions were a scam. >>
IMO, if he responded directly to the accusations and with full disclosure, I'd bet the peanut gallery would back off. On the other hand, if he did a dodge duck dip dive dodge, then I would understand the skepticism. >>
I guess he didn't anticipate the audience.
My collecting blog: http://ctcard.wordpress.com
<< <i>CBD was making a simple point and wasn't asking for an analysis of the coin auctions . . .
I guess he didn't anticipate the audience.
+1
1) There are tons of people who will jump to conclusions on the slightest bit of information. Thinking that something like this is rare is probably naive. Look at all the garbage passed along the internet as gospel everyday. Decent people wouldn't do it but not everyone is decent.
2) A lesson for all. Full disclosure is important. As is often said, "Hindsight is 20 20".
Unfortunately, your bad experience was a hard way to learn a lesson but thanks for passing it on so we all may benefit from it.
Doug
<< <i>
<< <i>CBD was making a simple point and wasn't asking for an analysis of the coin auctions . . .
I guess he didn't anticipate the audience.
+1 >>
Thank you Larry & Scott,
Your right, I didn't anticipate the audience. This was a complete waste of time.
I don't know if the thread was too long, but for some reason folks just don't read or comprehend or just read what they want into a thread.
I will try to be done with this!!!