Better investment card 86 fleer Jordan or 52 topps Mantle?

MrVintage

I was curious as to what you guys think is the better investment card between a PSA 10 86 fleer Jordan or a mid grade PSA 4-5 52 topps Mantle?

addicted2ebay

For a 10 Jordan I think you would be in the 2-3 graded 52 Mantle range. I would take the Mantle but the Jordan would probably increase in value more. Should do a poll.

Foo3112

Jordan is an international sports icon

52 Mantle card is an international sports card icon.

Mantle hands down. Theres less of those than the Jordans anyways. Supply and demand. Ill take a lower Mantle rookie any day over a Jordan 10.

jmmiller777

Ya, I'll take the Mantle.

sportscardtheory

Jordan.

I look at it like this, there are a ton of ungraded-to-low-grade '52 Topps Mantles out there, and yes, it is one of the most popular cards ever. But I think a GEM MINT copy of the greatest basketball player of ALL-TIME's only true rookie card is a safer investment than low-grade copies of the iconic Mantle. There will ALWAYS be far less GEM MINT Jordans in existence than ungraded-to-low-grade '52 Topps Mantles.

Dboneesq

<< <i>There will ALWAYS be far less GEM MINT Jordans in existence than ungraded-to-low-grade '52 Topps Mantles. >>


I vote for THE MICK. Remember, the odds are that there will NEVER be another MANTLE ripped from a wax pack. There could be THOUSANDS more Jordans.

llafoe

Thank you for the opportunity... I don't care which one I win... when's the drawing?

CocoaBeachDodgers

I not so sure investment wise, but I would not even hesitate in choosing the Mantle for my collection. In fact, not only the Mantle but I could think of quite a few other vintage baeball I would rather have.

Here's another thought I have regarding the two. For years to come, you can find unopened 86 Fleer packs, sure, your going to have to pay quite a bit for them, but you will be able to find them. How many High # 1952 packs are you going to find?

Of course, my answers are based on what I enjoy collecting, and not really a good answer to the original question!!!

Dboneesq

<< <i>Thank you for the opportunity... I don't care which one I win... when's the drawing? >>


Larry, I thought they were BOTH included in your giveaway! HAHAHA Stay Safe!

llafoe

There are 1,095 Mantles in PSA caskets and 13,127 Jordans in PSA caskets... next question?

pclpads

Mick.

addicted2ebay

<< <i>There are 1,095 Mantles in PSA caskets and 13,127 Jordans in PSA caskets... next question? >>



Yeah but going in terms of $ a PSA 3 Mick goes in the same range as a PSA 10 Joradan. POP report for PSA 3 Mick: 136 and PSA 10 Jordan: 145

llafoe

<< <i>

<< <i>There are 1,095 Mantles in PSA caskets and 13,127 Jordans in PSA caskets... next question? >>



Yeah but going in terms of $ a PSA 3 Mick goes in the same range as a PSA 10 Joradan. POP report for PSA 3 Mick: 136 and PSA 10 Jordan: 145 >>



... and a PSA 10 Mantle goes for...

Edited to add: There are more baseball collectors than basketball collectors. There are a LOT more unopened 1986 basketball then unopened 1952 baseball. I wonder how many basketball collectors would die to own a PSA 3 Jordan? ;-)

MattyC

If we are talking a lower grade Mick with centering and eye appeal, no question Mick.

Also, let's not forget how many beautiful BGS 9.5 Jordan's are out there, and the few BGS 10's, which means the PSA 10 Jordan won't even attract that buyer who wants THE best.

That said, both are amazing, key cards to any collection.

stevebay

in terms of future generations of card collectors buying out our collections (when we're senior citizens), Mantle may be far removed from the public eye that future generations may not know who he is. However, with Jordan, and his "Air Jordan's" shoes still selling well many years after his retirement, and more footage of him playing, more people may be able to identify with Jordan, and thus, perhaps more demand for his cards???

JoeBanzai

Mantle all the way. No one is going to forget about him any more than they have forgotten about Babe Ruth, Ted Williams etc.

Joe

Dboneesq

<< <i>in terms of future generations of card collectors buying out our collections (when we're senior citizens), Mantle may be far removed from the public eye that future generations may not know who he is. However, with Jordan, and his "Air Jordan's" shoes still selling well many years after his retirement, and more footage of him playing, more people may be able to identify with Jordan, and thus, perhaps more demand for his cards??? >>


I think that ANY person who collects sports cards will know who Mickey Mantle was. And lets not forget, although it seems like The Mike and Michael played MANY DECADES of years apart, it was only 16 years after The Mick retired that Michael joined the NBA.

DCanfield

<< <i>in terms of future generations of card collectors buying out our collections (when we're senior citizens), Mantle may be far removed from the public eye that future generations may not know who he is. However, with Jordan, and his "Air Jordan's" shoes still selling well many years after his retirement, and more footage of him playing, more people may be able to identify with Jordan, and thus, perhaps more demand for his cards??? >>



Does anyone collect Ruth or Gehrig? 90 years later the're still in demand. I don't think people will forget who Mantle was. I'll take Mickey.

OckhamsRazor

<< <i>in terms of future generations of card collectors buying out our collections (when we're senior citizens), Mantle may be far removed from the public eye that future generations may not know who he is. However, with Jordan, and his "Air Jordan's" shoes still selling well many years after his retirement, and more footage of him playing, more people may be able to identify with Jordan, and thus, perhaps more demand for his cards??? >>



I agree.

In fact, you are already seeing this in realized prices for these two cards.

52 Mantle PSA 4 sold for $10,680 on 7/27/12, in October 2010 this grade realized a price of $12,100 for a net loss of 12%.

86 Jordan PSA 10 sold for $8040 on 7/27/12, in October 2010 this grade realized a price of $6,806 for a net gain of 18%.

lightningboy

Great response OckhamsRazor. While the others are picking the Mick based on on years of being The Card, you gave the only response that related to the question. The Jordan in PSA 10 is simply the better card in terms of investmen's sake as of right now. Scaricity of an item is only one aspect relative to its value. There are certainly rarer cards than the Wagner, but nobody approaches it in value.

1954

I personally would go for the Mantle. I have bought many collections before over the years and in those collections I have run across 7 Jordan rookies and only one Mantle. I think I have a better chance of finding a raw Jordan that is in Gem Mint condition than a 52 Mantle in a collection. Both are great cards though.

DCanfield

<< <i>

<< <i>in terms of future generations of card collectors buying out our collections (when we're senior citizens), Mantle may be far removed from the public eye that future generations may not know who he is. However, with Jordan, and his "Air Jordan's" shoes still selling well many years after his retirement, and more footage of him playing, more people may be able to identify with Jordan, and thus, perhaps more demand for his cards??? >>



I agree.

In fact, you are already seeing this in realized prices for these two cards.

52 Mantle PSA 4 sold for $10,680 on 7/27/12, in October 2010 this grade realized a price of $12,100 for a net loss of 12%.

86 Jordan PSA 10 sold for $8040 on 7/27/12, in October 2010 this grade realized a price of $6,806 for a net gain of 18%. >>



Interesting. Could you put together the same numbers for 1 year and 3 years? I'm curious if Mantle cards are dropping in those years also. Why Oct. 2010? Why not use July 2010 so we have a 2 year trend? Additionally, what was the average sale price of both cards in the first and second quarter of this year? I don't think picking 1 sale to base the comparison on is accurate. The result may be right but you need to average in a larger sample.

Cakes

<< <i>Great response OckhamsRazor. While the others are picking the Mick based on on years of being The Card, you gave the only response that related to the question. The Jordan in PSA 10 is simply the better card in terms of investmen's sake as of right now. Scaricity of an item is only one aspect relative to its value. There are certainly rarer cards than the Wagner, but nobody approaches it in value. >>



To add a side question which will do better the Jordan Star rookie or the Fleer rookie in terms of percentages?

gc1213

They eye appeal of that low/mid grade Mantle is key. When you are looking at a 52 Topps in the same price range of a PSA 10 Jordan, not all are created equal.

If it is well centered and not creased then the Mick is the better choice. The generational argument holds little weight in my opinion. Look how many people collect vintage early 1900's baseball. I doubt too many people saw Honus or Cobb play, Ruth and Gerhig for that matter too yet their cards still go for big money and are in demand.

Mantle is about as iconic a figure as there is and the 52 is THE card. The Gem Jordan is amazing and his fan base is broad but as some pointed out, more can and likely will surface. And there are some serious BGS 9.5 and 10s out there as well.

Simple answer is to just get both!!

MattyC

Yeah, I do doubt you'd take a bath on either as a place to hold around 10k. I doubt either will drastically outpace the other; and the Jordan BGS cards can't be discounted.

ClockworkAngel

<< <i>There are 1,095 Mantles in PSA caskets and 13,127 Jordans in PSA caskets... next question? >>



RACK HIM!

And that number on the Jordan is going to continue to go up by a lot with everyone still holding 86 Fleer and possible future openings. In fact, I am one of the few that thinks the Jordan card is a bit overrated. Give me the Bird/Magic rookie anyday

shu4040

buy both

in all seriousness, i'm weighing the idea of a 86 Jordan 10 purchase. I am cognisant of the fact that IF this becomes a $25K card, a LOT more 86 Fleer packs will be ripped, leading to more 10s out there.

MattyC

This may be a slight digression from the initial post, but on the topic of the Jordan 86F... I thought long and hard about what grade and company I wanted this one in before buying. While I will say that you can never go wrong with a CENTERED PSA 10, I ultimately chose to find a BGS 9.5 with the pristine 10 centering subgrade. I felt that over the long haul, as more find their way into slabs of both major companies, what will distinguish the elite examples will be centering. That aspect of this particular card can wreck or greatly enhance eye appeal. I have also seen many PSA 10s that have centering more in line with 9s, as can be within guidelines. This was just my assessment of the card in non BGS 10 for holding in a personal collection but also wanting it to hold its value well or appreciate a little over time.

Also, I have found that many younger collectors of modern stuff like BGS, since they parse it so finely, as likely is necessary with newer stuff. So while I personally have all my 30's-70's stuff in PSA holders, the Jordan went into BGS with 10 centering. It thus stands to reason this might be the selfsame group who might buy Jordan RCs in years to come. I spoke to as many would-be buyers as I could to gauge their preference and found they, too, would prefer a higher-end subgrade BGS that flirts with overall pristine than your non 50/50 PSA 10. But it is admittedly splitting hairs either way.

MrVintage

Interesting responses and a lot of people on here have made some good arguments for both sides. I don't really think you can go wrong with either choice. Thanks for the solid input guys.

Cakes

<< <i>

<< <i>There are 1,095 Mantles in PSA caskets and 13,127 Jordans in PSA caskets... next question? >>



RACK HIM!

And that number on the Jordan is going to continue to go up by a lot with everyone still holding 86 Fleer and possible future openings. In fact, I am one of the few that thinks the Jordan card is a bit overrated. Give me the Bird/Magic rookie anyday >>



The one to target is the Topps 69-70 Kareem rookie, I have bought a couple this past year.

CollectorAtWork

If I had that kind of money to spend/invest, I'd prefer to put it in a low pop key pre-war card such as a 1914/15 Cracker Jack Cobb in PSA2-4. However, if I had to pick, I'd probably choose the Mantle also. I think the overall pops for the PSA 10 Jordan's will be roughly the same or a little less than the low-mid grade Mantles. There are still plenty of Jordan's in packs still, but there are a lot of Mantles that are still raw out there, so I would guess the pops will continue to trend roughly the same. However, I still have a hard time buying into the high grade market where a 10 is just a hair better than a 9, yet is 10 times (or more) more expensive. These are just pieces of cardboard here. How much eye appeal do you need?

Probstein123

mantle

gc1213

<< <i> However, I still have a hard time buying into the high grade market where a 10 is just a hair better than a 9, yet is 10 times (or more) more expensive. These are just pieces of cardboard here. How much eye appeal do you need? >>



Very well said. If this was for a personal collection I say the best value for the dollar is finding the PSA 10 hiding out in the 9 holder because lord knows they are out there.
The BGS holders have some beauties too. This is my whole collecting philosophy.

You have to factor in the amount of BGS 9.5s and the 4 10s too when determining the overall population on the MJ. PSA and perhaps to a much lesser extent SGC, are really the only players on the Mick.

End of the day both are incredibly safe investments.

Clockwork- I agree, i would take a PSA 10 Magic/Bird over the MJ as well. I think we are the minority though.

MattyC

Agree 100% - I'd also take the Bird Magic. Heck I can't even find a good PSA 9 Bird Magic!

Agree 100% - the smartest move of all is finding 10s hiding out in 9 holders. They are out there. I've written about that collecting philosophy extensively (perhaps even ad nauseum) over the years here. To me it's one of the most satisfying moments in our hobby to find a 9 that stands even with a 10 to the eye-- and you saved such a crazy bundle. Same goes for finding any card in X-1 GRADE when GRADE X is prohibitively expensive to one's budget.

Doublestriker

I am in love with Rick's (Probstein) Mantle he has listed:

Mantle Link

bishop

At this point, I'll take a Jordan...to diversify:

stormtrooper80

<< <i>buy both

in all seriousness, i'm weighing the idea of a 86 Jordan 10 purchase. I am cognisant of the fact that IF this becomes a $25K card, a LOT more 86 Fleer packs will be ripped, leading to more 10s out there. >>



The question is where are all these unopened 86 Fleer packs going to come from? Are you one of those people who swears that there are still old dealers from the 80s with dozens of cases tucked away in their garages?

Nevertheless, I dont think the Jordan 10 will ever reach 20K

MattyC

Having searched for both a low grade centered Mantle and a gem mt Jordan Fleer I can say firsthand that it was MUCH easier to find the latter. There were actually so many candidates to choose from. In stark contrast, it took me a long time to even find one decent Mantle in PSA 3, and a year later still only saw one other 3 on par. The nice 4s were priced WAY beyond VCP avg and also beyond the price of Jordan Fleers in PSA 10 or BGS 9.5. Just another way to compare, but there is a gaping chasm between theory and practice when it comes to finding a decently eye appealing Mantle in lower grade, which has to factor in as well.

lahmejoon

I would have to go Mantle too, since it's one of the two poster children of the hobby (Wagner being the other).

The generational point is a good one. However, I see the Mantle being very relevant in the industry for many more years. I'm in my 30's and started collecting in 1987. Everytime I opened a new issue of Beckett, I would look back to see if that card went up and secretly wished I had one. I think my generation holds the 52 Mantle in high regard, so I wouldn't see demand being an issue for many many years.

TheCARDKid

I'd pick the 86 Fleer Jordan.

-There's less and less 86 Fleer wax out there. What's the supply going to be in another 5-10 years. I still see people opening up 86 Fleer packs on youtube...and pulling mostly commons or one HOF rookie. And they don't seem too disappointed about it!

It seems like for our age group (I'm 34, those 25-35), we grew up on the 86 Fleer Jordan. And if you feel like gambling for $350, an 86 fleer pack is your choice. I don't think that will change for the foreseeable future.

True, a 10 is only a little bit better than a 9. But the population of 10's (across sports) has held steady. Look at the 86 Topps Rice PSA 10 rookie. Or Steve Young. They aren't creating them everyday.

The Bird/Magic 10 is a better buy. But its kind of lost in that late 70's era when basketball cards were dead. Look how cheap the Bird/John Drew rookie is.

-The 52 Mantle is about equal, esp with good eye appeal. But the Jordan has a lot of international appeal. You know there are a lot of Jordan collectors in Asia for example. They're both top cards.

MattyC

There really is no wrong answer to the original post here. Two awesome cards. Great thread and discussion.