Home Precious Metals

This is not great news for the American institutional investor...Open Season On Customer Funds

Thought your segregated accounts were safe? Think again


Here's another wall street litigation outrage. Yesterday a federal appeals court not only ruled that the Bank of New York Mellon gets to stay at the front of the line (ahead of you even though its your money) but also that using customer segregated funds as collateral is NOT a crime and that co-mingling customer segregated funds with proprietary funds is NOT fraud.

Sentinel Management Group took money from customer segregated accounts and fraudulently used it as collateral on a loan from the Bank of New York Mellon for $312,000,000 to fund their in-house proprietary trading operations. When this scheme collapsed, the Bank of New York Mellon sued to go to the front of the line and ahead of Sentinel's customers whose money was fraudulently used as collateral and a federal appeals court just threw you under the bus yet again in favor of wall street.


Reuters

A federal appeals court on Thursday upheld a ruling that puts Bank of New York Mellon ahead of former customers of Sentinel in the line of those seeking the return of money lost in the 2007 failure of the suburban Chicago-based futures broker.

The appeals court affirmed an earlier district court ruling that the bank had a "secured position" on a $312 million loan it gave to Sentinel, which turned out to have been secured by customer money.

Futures brokers are required to keep customers' funds in dedicated accounts to protect them from being used for anything other than client business.

However, Thursday's ruling suggests that brokerages can use customer funds to pay off other creditors, Sentinel trustee Fred Grede told Reuters.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/10/us-sentinel-appeals-decision-idUSBRE87900T20120810

BarnHardt site says pull it all out of the system. Its very alarmist, but she may be right. Here I go again fanning the flames. A side note: Grear Choice for VP... Paul Ryan.





NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac

Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That sucks!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ya gotta weigh that counterparty risk with all investments. Things just got riskier.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After Gm and Chrysler this isn't even remotely surprising to me.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Investing with the financial industry isn't risky unless you place your money with dysfunctional, politically well-connected, thieving, lying, sociopathic financial middlemen in a market where price discovery is only possible using high frequency trading platforms run by insiders.

    Other than that, it's great.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>ya gotta weigh that counterparty risk with all investments. Things just got riskier. >>

    they sure did get riskier image
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huh ?
    That's messed-up !!!
    Timbuk3
  • mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Investing with the financial industry isn't risky unless you place your money with dysfunctional, politically well-connected, thieving, lying, sociopathic financial middlemen in a market where price discovery is only possible using high frequency trading platforms run by insiders.

    Man, you perfectly summarized the situation.
    Good job!
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
  • Bayard1908Bayard1908 Posts: 4,046 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>ya gotta weigh that counterparty risk with all investments. Things just got riskier. >>



    That's' not counterparty risk, it's breach of fiduciary duty or custodial risk.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whatever happened to the concept that title to stolen merchandise, in this case the funds, cannot transfer?
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,790 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>ya gotta weigh that counterparty risk with all investments. Things just got riskier. >>



    That's' not counterparty risk, it's breach of fiduciary duty or custodial risk. >>


    the risk of your counter party breaching fiduciary duty has greatly increased in the last two years. As more custodians of investor funds get away with theft, more will follow.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • cupronikcupronik Posts: 773 ✭✭✭
    Whatever happened to Jon Corzine and the M.F. Global group with their debacle???
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whatever happened to Jon Corzine and the M.F. Global group with their debacle???

    $1.6 Billion missing, bankruptcy judge ruled that banking claims take precedence over any "segregated customer accounts" (contrary to bankruptcy law), and no indictments.

    That's what this thread is about.

    No rule of law. Corruption in banking, throughout the entire financial system, and including the courts. No indictments whatsoever. As recently as April, Corzine was still bundling political contributions for the Obama campaign.

    Bill Black is interviewed on Sinclair's website regarding the lack of prosecutions in a scandal that is 70 times larger than the thousands of convictions when he investigated & prosecuted the S&L debacle of the 1980's.Check it out. Be advised.

    Ann Barnhardt isn't kidding and she isn't wrong when she says "Get out". When things go south, they will take what you have invested. End of Story.



    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭
    Some pretty gross stuff going on these days.

    edit to add: When the online poker site Fulltilt Poker went under there was a huge media frenzy about online poker being a "ponzi scheme". The same issue was at heart, the player funds may or may not have been in properly segregated accounts and were mixed in with operating and other costs. Yet when the exact same thin happens in the banking industry and many times more money is lost on US soil (rather than a poker site operating out of Malta, the Caribbean, etc) barely a peep is made, let alone indictments. Sickening.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • pragmaticgoatpragmaticgoat Posts: 852 ✭✭✭
    Derry sig line: “Fraud and Theft" - the new American business model

    seems to be so
    BST references:
    jdimmick;Gerard;wondercoin;claychaser;agentjim007;CCC2010;guitarwes;TAMU15;Zubie;mariner67;segoja;Smittys;kaz;CARDSANDCOINS;FadeToBlack;
    jrt103;tizofthe;bronze6827;mkman;Scootersdad;AllCoinsRule;coindeuce;dmarks;piecesofme; and many more
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Get your money out!

    "The ruling is specifically designed to protect large financial institutions that have (purposefully) mismanaged customer funds and used the hard-earned life savings of Americans to gamble on equities, commodities and bond markets. If those firms happen to make the wrong bet, as MF Global, Sentinel and a handful of others have recently done, depositors who have placed funds with the banks under the belief that their bank account is securely protected from trading liabilities are now completely exposed and liable for the incompetence and negligence of those who engage in market trading."

    Where's Glass Steagall when you need it?


    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,639 ✭✭✭
    The reason why Congress approval rating is only 10%. You think they would pass a law that if their approval rating is below 10% it is ground for purging the entire congress. Almost everyone in Congress is a millionaire except Biden.
  • tneigtneig Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    The average to above average, investor/saver is the pawn funding the system, and usually the one that pays the price. Whether its a government bailout, or losing directly, ya pay. And government bailouts can't last forever.

    Most of us aren't savy enough in the current markets now, and most won't know how to preserve their wealth by taking it out or on how to handle it thereafter.

    It's a big chess game. What are you going to do?
    COA
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,636 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most people don't realize they have almost no protection from fraud any longer. Banks are not
    even required to return your deposits if they have been taken fraudulently even if they themselves
    commited the fraud.

    This is a dog eat dog economy and the rules are set by the biggest dogs who run the entire country.

    Both parties support the big dogs. Greed is the only law of the land.
    Tempus fugit.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,099 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The reason why Congress approval rating is only 10%. You think they would pass a law that if their approval rating is belw 10% it is ground for purging the entire congress. Almost everyone in Congress is a millionaire except Biden. >>



    Its called elections and quite obviously Americans think 10% is good. Maybe Obama is right--we do need more teachers. LOL)
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

Sign In or Register to comment.