The National? Dealers there are on the hashish.

CaptainNook

I took one day this year to go to the National, after having not been in a decade.

After spending nearly 50 bucks in admission, parking and gas just to get in the door, I discovered it's an epic fail.

I'm wondering where the dealers stash their hash, and hide their peyote pipes. I've never seen so much overpriced garbage in all my life - way over VCP, even over SMR and I didn't think that was possible. And half of it was overgraded anyway.

Case in point: a dealer there had a 64 Topps set with over 100 PSA 8's, the stars mostly in 7's. $9500. NINETY FIVE HUNDRED. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Honestly, you peeps that blow hard about it must scour every corner looking for the 5% of dealers you can actually haggle with.

And the auction houses? Let's not go there, I hope the Feds were doing some reconaissance.



NOOK

jmmiller777

Thanks, I'm not so jealous about not being able to go now.

123Slider

Sounds like you need to quit the hobby.




See ya.

pmcollectour

<< <i>I took one day this year to go to the National, after having not been in a decade.

After spending nearly 50 bucks in admission, parking and gas just to get in the door, I discovered it's an epic fail.

I'm wondering where the dealers stash their hash, and hide their peyote pipes. I've never seen so much overpriced garbage in all my life - way over VCP, even over SMR and I didn't think that was possible. And half of it was overgraded anyway.

Case in point: a dealer there had a 64 Topps set with over 100 PSA 8's, the stars mostly in 7's. $9500. NINETY FIVE HUNDRED. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Honestly, you peeps that blow hard about it must scour every corner looking for the 5% of dealers you can actually haggle with.

And the auction houses? Let's not go there, I hope the Feds were doing some reconaissance.



NOOK >>




If you check completed ebay auctions, you'll see that many cards go well over VCP prices.

A PSA 8 Roger Staubach rookie recently went for $811.00
The previous VCP record was in the $600.00 range.

A Nolan Ryan that had a VCP of 300 went for $1,100.00 recently on ebay.

I have no problem with dealers charging above VCP. There are people (including me) who are sometimes willing to pay.

Nathaniel1960

I was happy with the experience. There were some reasonably priced vintage sets. BBCE had a nice 66 Topps Set with gorgeous hi's for $1500. Probably did not last through Saturday. And there was a roast beef sandwich that was big enough for two people, with kettle chips and pickle = $10

I went low rent this time around...here are the pickups/prices. Most expensive thing was the parking! $25 outside lot.

Stanley Cup Hologram 71/10000 - 1990 Pro Set - $1
Frank Thomas Auto 1993 Leaf - QVC - $1
24 CT case of Fleer Revco Hottest Stars - $45 (bought two at that price = $1.80 set)
1960 Topps Ollie Matson PSA 6 - $4
1959 Topps Lou Groza PSA 6 - $4
1966 Topps Matt Snell PSA 6 - $4
1964 Topps Matt Snell PSA 7 (oc) - $4
1984-1986 Baseball Cards Magazine Run with all insert cards ($1 per issue)
1985 Topps Dan Marino - $1 (five at that price)
1996 Allen Iverson RC's various - 25 cents each
1973-74 Topps BKB Chamberlain LL - $1
1975-76 Topps BKB Malone LL - $1
2012 Prestige Football Box - $96 - pulled next to nothing, RG3 base card, LaMichael Thomas auto /250
30 Pounds of Auction Catalogs from auction houses FREE!!!

illinifan912

<< <i>I was happy with the experience. There were some reasonably priced vintage sets. BBCE had a nice 66 Topps Set with gorgeous hi's for $1500. Probably did not last through Saturday. And there was a roast beef sandwich that was big enough for two people, with kettle chips and pickle = $10

I went low rent this time around...here are the pickups/prices. Most expensive thing was the parking! $25 outside lot.

Stanley Cup Hologram 71/10000 - 1990 Pro Set - $1
Frank Thomas Auto 1993 Leaf - QVC - $1
24 CT case of Fleer Revco Hottest Stars - $45 (bought two at that price = $1.80 set)
1960 Topps Ollie Matson PSA 6 - $4
1959 Topps Lou Groza PSA 6 - $4
1966 Topps Matt Snell PSA 6 - $4
1964 Topps Matt Snell PSA 7 (oc) - $4
1984-1986 Baseball Cards Magazine Run with all insert cards ($1 per issue)
1985 Topps Dan Marino - $1 (five at that price)
1996 Allen Iverson RC's various - 25 cents each
1973-74 Topps BKB Chamberlain LL - $1
1975-76 Topps BKB Malone LL - $1
2012 Prestige Football Box - $96 - pulled next to nothing, RG3 base card, LaMichael Thomas auto /250
30 Pounds of Auction Catalogs from auction houses FREE!!! >>



You picked up one heck of a deal for the 1990 stanley cup hologram. Thats has some nice resale value.

1960toppsguy

CAPTAIN NOOK
Consider overhead, cost of travel, set up at show, dealer entry/registration cost, accomodiations, staffing etc . . . These guys aren't necessarilly there to make your day nor is it designed to be a flea market or yard sale; it is a display of some of the finest art in the world, it's OK that you can't afford it but like any fine art gallery in the world, most of the thrill comes in viewing these great collections/pieces. Sounds to me you got exactly what you paid for and you just didn't know it or you simply didn't appreciate it.

zep33

Just stopping in the thread to see some hashish. Haven't seen that stuff since high school

Leaving disappointed

1960toppsguy

^^^That's Funny^^^

shu4040

overall i agreed that dealers were overpriced on most things, as most items were above ebay prices which surprised me.

i guess i expected the competition of 500 dealers would make guys more negotiable, i pointed out to a few dealers that EVEN IF they sold their stuff on ebay for the same price they are losing 8-10% in fees and I'm offering them the ability to make a sale now.

looked at a few cards in the $1k range and nearly all could be had cheaper online. was a little disappointed with that.

mtcards

At the end of the day, people can charge what they want. If they dont sell anything, they will either lower their prices or continue not to sell. A good case in point is some of the mid 90's inserts, which have more than tripled in the past year and are still selling for more than book....people are asking $200+ for a card that has a book of $150. Doesnt mean they will sell, but not everyone sells their items because the NEED money.

Bottom line is that a sale price is usually somewhere between what someone WANTS for it and what someone would rather KEEP it for. And if there is a buyer in that range, a transaction happens.

jrboles

<< <i>Just stopping in the thread to see some hashish. Haven't seen that stuff since high school

Leaving disappointed >>



From the late great Tug McGraw:

Report: Tug what are your thoughts playing on turf instead of grass?
McGraw: I don't know. I never smoked turf.

MattyC

There were definitely some great deals to be had on some premium cards, at prices below VCP avg.

Also, an ask price is one thing; you can always tell a dealer your best offer in cash and many times quickly and painlessly work things out.

Still, I never thought anyone goes to The National expecting to find deals of a lifetime as far as the eye can see. Rather I'd go to see great cards, talk cards with fellow enthusiasts in person, maybe make a few purchases.

So much of everything is managing expectations I guess. Where you set expectations can determine whether you walk out salty or happy.

alnavman

went to a garage sale this weekend instead of the National.....wish I could have gone to the National but did pick up a nice nine count 1990 Topps baseball boxes lot along with a 1990 Fleer football box for $41...did I overpay??? maybe but I saved the $50 to get into the National and park. to each his own I say and if someone feels prices are high then try to get them lower or just walk away.

al.

PS: start price on the wax boxes was $15 EACH until I was able to convince the mother and her daughter that they were asking too much....

Toro

<< <i>most of the thrill comes in viewing these great collections/pieces >>



That, taking part in the industry talks, meeting people of BBCE, the people of the reality show, the freebies from the manufacturers, a few autographs and stuff like that.

handyman

My advice. Never leave your house! Your computer is your best friend! Who needs vitamin D right..

BaltimoreYankee

Nook does make a valid point about prices at the National. We are spoiled living in the internet/eBay age. When I was attending shows in the 1980's, they were one of the only places to get cards (there were also the occasional brick and mortar stores and dealers advertising in Sports Collector's Digest).

I felt many of the prices were high and simply passed (one particular case: A dealer had a few raw 1975 cellos with HOFers on top. I asked what he wanted for one with Frank Robinson and the price was $200. I had just bought one on eBay with Reggie Jackson on top for $108. The $108 was pretty low but still you get the idea, I think a raw F Robby pack goes around $125 or so on eBay).

I still had a great time at the show though - and came home with most of my money.

bobbyw8469

Yea...most dealers refused to admit that almost all of their items can be had cheaper elsewhere. They absolutely hate the internet/Ebay. Maybe alot prey on the uneducated or those that have to have it "now".....who knows. Some could care less whether they get their price or not.

Griffins

I think if you go to the National (or any show for that matter) with the goal to find the same prices as ebay you're going to be very disappointed. Shows require a different strategy, because it's an entirely different marketplace.

Prices on graded '50's and '60's stars are going to be higher at shows- they have to be. There is a much higher cost of getting an item to market. This just isn't the place to buy things like that.
I adjust my expectations and goals:

Generally don't bother with anything you can find 6 of on ebay if you're looking for graded cards. '63 Rose? '55 Koufax? Better off cutting out the middleman and buying from a collector.
Raw- just as I generally won't buy raw from ebay, shows are the perfect place for that. And it's a good place to find that dying breed- the dealer who doesn't grade cards and doesn't sell on the internet.
Items you wouldn't look for online or are too hard to ship- display pieces, odd companion pieces for sets, etc.
Talk to people- The last National I went to ('08) I spent a grand total of $20. But I set up purchases that led to $15k in purchases in the following 3 months. Ideally if you're looking for something that rarely comes up this is the time to build relationships so that when it does come up it gets offered to you before it goes into the open market.
Timing- if you're shopping on Thursday or Friday, forget it. Tuesday is the best time, followed by Wednesday before the early entry starts. And keep your ears open- it's amazing what people will talk about with strangers nearby. Good way to find out who is doing what to their submissions.
If you're looking for things that can easily be had elsewhere you're wasting your time. And if you come across as a DB it's going to hurt your ability to get better prices. I've seen dealers turn down one offer only to accept it 3 minutes later from someone less offensive. Too many people on both sides of the table go into a show with the premise that it always has to be an adversarial relationship, and it costs them.

grote15

Great words of advice above from a seasoned collector...

gumbyfan

<< <i>I think if you go to the National (or any show for that matter) with the goal to find the same prices as ebay you're going to be very disappointed. Shows require a different strategy, because it's an entirely different marketplace.

Prices on graded '50's and '60's stars are going to be higher at shows- they have to be. There is a much higher cost of getting an item to market. This just isn't the place to buy things like that.
I adjust my expectations and goals:

Generally don't bother with anything you can find 6 of on ebay if you're looking for graded cards. '63 Rose? '55 Koufax? Better off cutting out the middleman and buying from a collector.
Raw- just as I generally won't buy raw from ebay, shows are the perfect place for that. And it's a good place to find that dying breed- the dealer who doesn't grade cards and doesn't sell on the internet.
Items you wouldn't look for online or are too hard to ship- display pieces, odd companion pieces for sets, etc.
Talk to people- The last National I went to ('08) I spent a grand total of $20. But I set up purchases that led to $15k in purchases in the following 3 months. Ideally if you're looking for something that rarely comes up this is the time to build relationships so that when it does come up it gets offered to you before it goes into the open market.
Timing- if you're shopping on Thursday or Friday, forget it. Tuesday is the best time, followed by Wednesday before the early entry starts. And keep your ears open- it's amazing what people will talk about with strangers nearby. Good way to find out who is doing what to their submissions.
If you're looking for things that can easily be had elsewhere you're wasting your time. And if you come across as a DB it's going to hurt your ability to get better prices. I've seen dealers turn down one offer only to accept it 3 minutes later from someone less offensive. Too many people on both sides of the table go into a show with the premise that it always has to be an adversarial relationship, and it costs them. >>



Spot on.

thunderdan

I'm going to disagree with some of you. I just returned from the National. Every single item I purchased was 10-20% under VCP. I'm NOT saying this was the standard or even that I'm some kind of a good negotiator, but there were a few dealers/collectors, that when presented with a reasonable cash offer made the sale. Certainly most items are priced initially well above VCP, but a few dealers will wheel and deal. You're certainly not going to steal anything at the National, but there were certainly some nice cards I found that are normally hard to locate.

My $0.02. My one and only National attended so far, so I have no idea if this is/isn't consistent with past conventions.

darkhorse9

I go to the National (or the Sun Time shows) for one reason...to buy a bunch of commons. There are plenty of deals to be made on common cards from the 50-s to the 70's. And when you buy at a show you don't end up paying $2 in shipping for every card. That's where the real savings come in. I save the star card buys for e-bay.

Sometimes I can find star cards at reasonable prices at shows. When I find when that I am close in price on I simply make them an offer. I just say "I'd be a buyer at $xxx" They either say yes or no.

The last show I attended cost me $60 in gas, $10 in admission and maybe $10 in food. But I know I saved a good $200 in shipping and got the cards for for at least 80% of what I would have paid on ebay because I bought in bulk.

fur72

Dont ever expect to see bargins at the National when buying vintage. I enjoy the National alot but just consider it a celebration of the hobby and a great place to get a bunch of autos at the same time.

jmmiller777

Forget all this debating, post some picts!

royalbrett

I figure that if you've got enough money to attend the national, there shouldn't be much complaining about prices.

cwazzy

I went to the previous 2 Nationals and it killed me not to be able to go this year. Yes, most of the prices are a bit on the high side. But for me it was about the experience. I couldn't afford 90% of what was at the show on eBay anyway so the price on the cards didn't matter. I could have not spent a dime at the show and it would have been worth it to see all the great cards and talk to some great hobbyists.

I do second the notion that being a total douche doesn't help the experience, which is probably why the OP didn't enjoy himself.

orioles93

I agree a lot of stuff was overpriced but the dealers can do what they want. I passed on a lot of stuff i thought was overpriced and did some digging and ended up finding some great deals. I picked up a nice 53 Bowman Reese for $240 and it books at $1000. Before i found that one, I had passed on close to 15 others that i thought were too expensive for the condition they were in. Got a lot of really nice 59s to for fairly cheap. I guess you just have to look real hard past the big ticket items in the big display cases. There were deals to be had, you just had to find them.

Heres a pic, someone above wanted to see pics.

orioles93

More Scans!!!!!!! Cause everyone likes scans!

JMDVM

I spent hours looking for raw cards from 1954-61 to grade on Weds and Thurs. Found almost nothing because the cards were either poor quality or there was so little difference in price between the raw card and its graded version, that it wasn't worth the gamble to buy something and then not even get the grade I was looking for. Amazingly, I did buy three 1956 PSA 7 commons from 707 at VCP prices---never expected that!

gonzer

<< <i>and hide their peyote pipes. >>



Lophophora williamsii (peyote) is ingested, not smoked and inhaled. Just to keep the record straight.

soundgard

I wouldnt go to the national if someone paid my admission fee and all my expenses. Complete waste of time. If people like over-paying on cards all you have to do is buy online from 707.

cwazzy

<< <i>I wouldnt go to the national if someone paid my admission fee and all my expenses. Complete waste of time. If people like over-paying on cards all you have to do is buy online from 707. >>



It's not necessarily about the cards. It's about interacting with other collectors and seeing GREAT cards in person. And I would gladly pay a little extra for the ability to handle the cards and check them out in person rather than having to trust a scan. Plus I don't have to wait for the card to be delivered. Yes, eBay is usually cheaper. But it's not a great experience.

cpamike

<< <i>

<< <i>I wouldnt go to the national if someone paid my admission fee and all my expenses. Complete waste of time. If people like over-paying on cards all you have to do is buy online from 707. >>



It's not necessarily about the cards. It's about interacting with other collectors and seeing GREAT cards in person. And I would gladly pay a little extra for the ability to handle the cards and check them out in person rather than having to trust a scan. Plus I don't have to wait for the card to be delivered. Yes, eBay is usually cheaper. But it's not a great experience. >>



I completely agree with you. When you add up the costs, the National may not end up being worth it from a pure investment point of view. I'll continue to go to catch up with my friends in the hobby as you always learn so much talking to other collectors. I also brought my wife and did some sight seeing in Baltimore as well as taking in a Nationals game. And as Chris said, nothing beats holding the cards in hand especially if you collect raw. JHMO.

JoeBanzai

<< <i>I wouldnt go to the national if someone paid my admission fee and all my expenses. Complete waste of time. If people like over-paying on cards all you have to do is buy online from 707. >>



Really? Here's a card I saw sell on eBay eBay

Here's the same card I purchased for $100.00 at the National.

While I did see a LOT of overpriced cards and sellers not willing to deal. There were bargains if you had the patience to find them.

Joe

mtcards

I have the MLB package on my computer for $19 a month.......

I STILL go to games live and pay $5 for a hot dog (Only a buck at miller park, at least 2 years ago)


Think about it

Cakes

<< <i>I wouldnt go to the national if someone paid my admission fee and all my expenses. Complete waste of time. If people like over-paying on cards all you have to do is buy online from 707. >>



I really wanted to go to take advantage of the PSA bulk submission prices.

Juggs

Please do not badmouth the hashish.

hammered

<< <i>I also bought my wife and did some sight seeing in Baltimore as well as taking in a Nationals game. And as Chris said, nothing beats holding the cards in hand especially if you collect raw. JHMO. >>



Which booth was that at? Do u feel u got a better deal than if u bought her online?

jrboles

<< <i>

<< <i>I also bought my wife and did some sight seeing in Baltimore as well as taking in a Nationals game. And as Chris said, nothing beats holding the cards in hand especially if you collect raw. JHMO. >>



Which booth was that at? Do u feel u got a better deal than if u bought her online? >>




My nominee for post of the year. WalterSobchak will need to consider changing his signature line to this.

JohnnyD

<< <i>CAPTAIN NOOK
Consider overhead, cost of travel, set up at show, dealer entry/registration cost, accomodiations, staffing etc . . . These guys aren't necessarilly there to make your day nor is it designed to be a flea market or yard sale; it is a display of some of the finest art in the world, it's OK that you can't afford it but like any fine art gallery in the world, most of the thrill comes in viewing these great collections/pieces. Sounds to me you got exactly what you paid for and you just didn't know it or you simply didn't appreciate it. >>



+1....I went to the Cleveland National with about $100 on me, spent it on a few neat items but spent most of my time happily admiring beautiful cards that I could never afford anyway, checking out old uniforms and sports memorabilia, and talking to some very knowledgeable guys. It really is like a sports museum.

cpamike

<< <i>

<< <i>I also bought my wife and did some sight seeing in Baltimore as well as taking in a Nationals game. And as Chris said, nothing beats holding the cards in hand especially if you collect raw. JHMO. >>



Which booth was that at? Do u feel u got a better deal than if u bought her online? >>



Oops!!! Good catch Matt. I meant to say "brought", but subconsciously I think I meant "I also bought my wife off so I could go to a card show and take in a Nationals game."

Thanks jrboles for reposting this.

Basilone

Griffin's post was spot on.

TNP777

+1 for a John Basilone sighting!

itzagoner

<< <i>reasonable cash offer >>



there's yer gospel right there. it's what makes those guys put down the hash pipe.

brianwintersfan

Went to my first National last year in Chicago and it was a cool experience. I did pick up some nice raw cards for my Milwaukee Braves team sets and I didn't break the bank. Plus if you love the hobby it's worth it just to go look around. Lots of drool worthy items that's for sure.