OT: The Who Cancelled Concert Tickets--NOW UP FOR SALE

TonyC

This is fairly off-topic, but I am hoping that someone can help me with some cancelled concert tickets I have been asked to sell for a charity, or at least point me to someone who would be able to help me.

I have given some thought to my questions before I am posing them to all of you--I didn't just write it up without having thought about it myself--but I want some other opinions from people in the collecting world.


Lastly, I apologize that this post is very long.



One of my close friends is the CEO of Special Olympics Rhode Island. His organization recently acquired 14 tickets from a cancelled The Who concert from 1979 in Providence as a donation from the Dunkin' Donuts Center, and he wants to sell them to raise money for Special Olympics.



Here is the story as far as I know it:




During the 1979 The Who Concert Tour, at the December 3rd concert in Cincinnati, 11 fans were killed and 26 were injured in a crowd rush. Then-Mayor of Providence Vincent "Buddy" Cianci (who later served time in federal prison on RICO charges) cancelled The Who's stop in Providence, scheduled for December 17th, for fear of a similar problem. Fans were able to redeem their tickets for a full refund at the time.

The Who never came back to Providence.

The Who is holding a US tour beginning this year and concluding in 2013, and one of the stops on the tour will be Providence. The Dunkin' Donuts Center decided to honor any tickets that fans may have saved from the 1979 cancelled show and exchange them for tickets to the 2013 show. The Dunkin' Donuts Center decided to donate any tickets exchanged to Rhode Island Special Olympics for them to use as they please to raise money for the charity.

The ticket exchange was held earlier this week. Of the 12,900 tickets that were originally issued for the 1979 concert, 14 were redeemed for 2013 tickets. The Dunkin' Donuts Center says the vast majority of tickets were redeemed for cash back in 1979, but it does not have exact figures.

This is an article from the Providence Journal covering the ticket exchange: Projo Article





The Special Olympics Rhode Island CEO wants me to sell the 14 tickets for him on eBay. I have scanned in the 14 tickets below; as you can see, some of them are in decent shape, some of them leave something to be desired.



I am not really sure how to proceed because I know little about vintage music tickets. Here are my questions:


1) Probably the most important question--what are these tickets worth, if anything? This is a blurb from the Providence Journal article that addresses this issue:



<< <i>There’s no telling how much the tickets will fetch. Le-pore said he’d heard of a fan who was offered $1,000 for his four tickets; Tom Potts, of Westerly, said that he’d put his pair on eBay two years ago and no one bid on them. As of Tuesday evening, two ticket stubs from The Who’s concert in Buffalo the night after the Cincinnati deaths were listed at $45 each; no one had bid on them yet. >>



I looked around briefly at The Who vintage ticket sales, and it looks like you're lucky to get $30 a ticket. However, I also looked at cancelled concert tickets in general, and some of those can sell for a decent amount--for instance, a ticket from the *** Pistols' (censored for filter) first US show that ended up getting cancelled sold for $511 (eBay listing), but that is probably a more significant concert than the one that I have the tickets for.

So are they worth anything, and if so, what?

2) Do you think I would do better selling these tickets under my eBay account and setting up a Rhode Island Special Olympics MissionFish account through eBay for 100% of the proceeds to go to, or do you think I would be better off starting a Rhode Island Special Olympics eBay account (certified by MissionFish) for the organization to "sell directly" to collectors? I tend to think people might be more willing to spend money on them if there is no confusion about where the money is going, but then again people might feel more comfortable spending money if the account has 11,000 feedback as opposed to 0.

2A) If I sold them with my account, how does the accounting work on that? Do the sale prices go onto my 1099 that Paypal generates at the end of the year, even though eBay will transfer all of the money to SORI automatically, in which case I would need to include a charitable deduction for my taxes, or am I not held liable for the tax burden?

3) Would I get a significant enough premium if I sent them to PSA to get them slabbed to justify the cost of having them slabbed? And if so, do you think I would be able to get PSA to pedigree them (something to the effect that they are 2012 redemption tickets)?

3A) If the answer to #3 is no, should I try to do something, even if it is rudimentary, in the way of a COA with each ticket? Possibly a letter explaining the ticket, with a picture of the particular ticket and a notation in the letter of the exact section, row, and seat, signed by a combination of myself, the SORI CEO, and an official from the Dunkin' Donuts Center? It wouldn't be as tamper-proof as a slab or a hologram, but it would be cheap and easy and probably enough for most collectors.

4) Timing. The ticket exchange has gotten some considerable national press, but few of the stories said that the old tickets were being donated to charity, so I don't think many people outside of Rhode Island know that SORI has them and wants to sell them. The CEO wants me to sell them ASAP, while there is still "excitement," but I am wondering if the tickets would do better if I A) waited for The Who tour to start or waited the 1-2 months for PSA to slab them (if the answer to #3 is yes).





So that is about it.


As I said at the top, I would greatly appreciate insight from anyone who either is knowledgeable in this field or knows someone who is.

Thanks in advance!!!

TonyC

Bump for the night crowd, any help out there?

MooseDog

Hi Michael -

I'll offer some thoughts, with the caveat that I'm an old-school ticket/stub collector from back when these things were basically worthless, and a big-time WHO fan, so take it for what it's worth.

1) Value - given the other evidence you cited of unsold similar tickets, it would seem that the value is likely less than $50 each. Basically it is just a cancelled concert - no significant event, but rather fallout from same (the Cincinnati tragedy) similar to if the artist had gotten injured or sick and couldn't perform the show. For a 1979 Who ticket, the value would be in the Cincinnati ticket, despite the tragedy...as that was the significant event.

2) If your own account has significant feedback points and all, you'll do better selling that way. I volunteer at a local Friends of the Library organization and tried a little experiment selling a few books using their 2-feedback account vs my 6000+ feedback account. Needless to say mine did a little better. The key is to write a good description about both the items and where the money is going, emphasize that no one is making any profit except the organization. Due note that these days most people don't "overpay" just because the money is going to charity. This is a bit of a change from pre-2007 (Lehman Bros/Housing Crash) when people were a little more generous while their houses were going up $5K in "value" every month.

2A) I think is a question best asked of PayPal and/or someone with accounting/tax expertise.

3) Frankly I don't think slabbing would be worth the expense. I haven't sold many tickets, but I have found that slabbing tickets does not generate a premium, at least with real ticket collectors. The exception would be in cases where the tickets were widely counterfeited (1969 Woodstock, Beatles, etc).

3A) Certainly wouldn't hurt.

4) I wouldn't wait...the last time the Who went on tour they lost a key member and I don't think the fan base is growing, just growing older. If anything, maybe selling locally near the band's appearance in Providence. Maybe you could talk a local paper into donating ad space or writing an article (mentioning the eBay listing/auction).

Hope this helps a little.

PowderedH2O

As someone that loves the Who and will be attending the show in Greensboro this year, I would certainly consider bidding on them. I hope you'll put them up individually, and not as a lot.

ga5150

I'll try to give my opinion on some of your questions also. I collect Van Halen memorabilia which includes past ticket stubs also. I've got over 500 tickets from previous shows. That being said, I've bought and sold and traded lots of tickets over the years.

1. The condition of these tickets aren't bad at all compared to some tickets from that same time frame. A collector will want the ticket to fill a gap in the dates of their collection first and foremost, and then worry about upgrading if needed. What you don't want are rips, thumbtack holes, tape stuck to them, and writing on the front.
I looked up 1979 Who tickets on the bay and the one from the Cincy show sold recently for around $25. I would price these above those and see if they go.

2. What Moosedog said
2a. I'm not sure how this would work. When you do the listing, you can choose the part about donating to charity, but I have no idea how the accounting for that works. Sorry....

3. I would not send these to PSA. Something like old Beatles, early Zeppelin, or Elvis tickets I would consider slabbing, but not these.

4. There is always excitement among collectors of rock memorabilia once a new tour starts. New tours bring new items out of the woodwork, so I would wait until the tour is underway for a week or so and then get them listed.

I'll also send you a PM with some other information on an ebay seller that may be able to provide more insight.

Good luck!

Rodney

mariotown

In response to getting the tickets graded, I think PSA's policy is not to grade tickets of "phantom" events or events that never took place.

Kevin

TonyC

Thank you to all who responded, there was some very sound advice and ideas there.

I just wanted to update on where the project is right now.

I am helping Special Olympics Rhode Island register with eBay as a nonprofit so I can have 100% of the proceeds go directly to them and have eBay advertise that fact.

As of right now, the plan is to auction off all of the tickets with my eBay account in the near future.

I am working on a COA signed by myself, the CEO of Special Olympics Rhode Island, and the General Manager at the Dunkin' Donuts Center, on stationary from one of those two organizations, that explains what the item is and contains A) a picture of the individual ticket and a description of the section, row, and seat number for that ticket and any other relevant notes.



I have received a few PMs asking when these will be for sale, as some members are interested; I will message anyone who messaged me when dates are decided.




Below is the text for the COA, if anyone has any critiques--the COA will also have a picture of the ticket it is accompanying and a description of the section, row, and seat that the ticket is for:



<< <i>This certificate of authenticity (COA) verifies that the accompanying ticket, as pictured and described in this letter, is 1 of 14 concert tickets from The Who’s December 17, 1979 cancelled concert, collected as part of the Dunkin’ Donuts Center’s 2012 redemption program associated with The Who’s February 26, 2013 concert at the Dunkin’ Donuts Center in Providence, Rhode Island.

During The Who’s 1979 US tour, 11 fans were killed and 26 were injured during a crowd rush at the December 3rd show in Cincinnati, Ohio. In reaction, then-Providence mayor, Vincent “Buddy” Cianci, cancelled The Who’s show in Providence, scheduled for December 17, 1979. At the time, the Providence Civic Center (now the Dunkin’ Donuts Center) offered full refunds for tickets from the cancelled show, and the vast majority of the tickets were returned.

The Who never returned to Providence—until 2013, when The Who will come to Providence during a new US tour.

In conjunction with the announcement that The Who would come back to Providence, the Dunkin’ Donuts Center announced that it would allow anyone still holding tickets from the cancelled 1979 concert to redeem them for tickets to the 2013 concert. On July 31, 2012, fans redeemed 14 tickets from the 1979 concert at the Dunkin’ Donuts Center in exchange for tickets to the 2013 concert.

The Dunkin’ Donuts Center donated all 14 redeemed tickets from the 1979 concert to Special Olympics Rhode Island (SORI). Michael Miller, owner of Sports Heroes in Cranston, RI, auctioned off all 14 tickets on eBay, with the auctions ending on ____________, with 100% of the proceeds going to support SORI.

The undersigned parties attest that the ticket accompanying this COA, as it is pictured and described in this letter, is a genuine 1979 The Who ticket for the cancelled concert in Providence, Rhode Island, scheduled for December 17, 1979, that was redeemed as part of the 2012 redemption program detailed above. This COA is null and void if the ticket accompanying this letter is altered or reproduced in any way, or if the ticket accompanying this letter does not match the picture and the specifications indicated. >>

Dboneesq

Mike ... PM sent.

TonyC

These tickets went up for sale tonight, 100% of the proceeds go to Special Olympics Rhode Island via eBay's Missionfish program.

Check them out by going to my eBay store! They are 7-day auctions which end next Sunday night.

vladguerrero

Bump for Special Olympics being an awesome organization.

TonyC

<< <i>Bump for Special Olympics being an awesome organization. >>



Must have missed the bump earlier this week; thanks!

Tickets end tonight! Check them out!

TonyC

Thank you to anyone who bid on these; we were able to raise about $375!

Dboneesq

<< <i>Thank you to anyone who bid on these; we were able to raise about $375! >>


Mike ... glad to see that you were able to raise almost $400.00 for the Special Olympics.

TonyC

<< <i>

<< <i>Thank you to anyone who bid on these; we were able to raise about $375! >>


Mike ... glad to see that you were able to raise almost $400.00 for the Special Olympics. >>



Thanks for helping to boost a few, Doug!