Ethics anyone? Updated: Ethics are alive and well

Kaelasdad

So, I had 2 packages to ship out, and my internet was down. I sent my assitant to the post office to ship them out, one package was worth a few hundred, the other was almost 900, with 4 coins in it. I get an email this morning from the gentleman who purchased the 4 coins--they havent yet showed up. So, I grab the shipping receipts, and they both show the packages shipping to one address--the address of the guy who bought the 200 coin. My assistant, made a mistake and mistakenly addressed both packages to the same address.

I havent heard boo from the guy who got the additional package. We left him a message on Ebay as well as on his home phone (looked his number up on the computer), and politely asked if he had noticed that 2 packages had been delivered to his house. Havent heard anything back as yet. The guy missing the 4 coins has been patient and has asked for replacement coins.

I would have thought the extra package would have warranted some kind of message to me, did the receiver think he wouldn't be discovered?

I realize I have no way of getting the coins back if he simply says, what coins?

Think I will get them back? What are the chances he will find his conscience now that he knows we know?

(for those wondering why the package didnt have signature required, it was supposed to have had it for amounts over 250, and obviously, my assistant thought it was 200....twice)

UPDATED: The buyer did communicate--He had been out of town on vacation, came back and discovered an extra package--coins are being returned, and I will be sending him a nice Thank you coin for his troubles as well as covering shipping, of course. The polite way does still work, and my faith in humanity is strong again Drinks are on me Boys (and girls)Text

MsMorrisine

has your asst. stopped crying yet?


in what state is the recipient of the windfall??

michiganboy

Well if he is unresponsive, legal threats usually work to get people motivated even when they are empty legal threats. Not that I am saying jump right to that, but if I didn't get a response and he would not answer I would be all over it especially with the fact you can prove they we're shipped to him.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>Well if he is unresponsive, legal threats usually work to get people motivated even when they are empty legal threats. Not that I am saying jump right to that, but if I didn't get a response and he would not answer I would be all over it especially with the fact you can prove they we're shipped to him. >>




perhaps that is the next contact:

I can prove these coins were shipped to you.

you may eventually use: I am reporting them stolen

blu62vette

How long since delivered? Not everyone opens the mail or even sees it the day it comes in.

Legal threats should be a very last resort, those types of messages don't encourage people to work with you.

M

Sorry to hear of your issue but agree with starting out nice and even nicer. Say the other buyer is looking for them and you need them back at your cost to ship. Maybe even offer him a reward for his time to return them. Once you get threatening, you'll need to folow though and file a police report for the stolen coins. Best of luck!

Timbuk3

Good luck !!!
I wish you the best.

LeeBone

Ethics.

I myself wonder what happened to this generation and that word.

I was brought up knowing right from wrong.

This sounds like a case of wrong.

CarlWohlforth

Once I switched packages in error. The fellow who got the expensive coin promptly returned it as did the fellow with the cheaper coin. I then sent the proper coin to the proper customer. I sure hope your situation works out just as smoothly!!!!!

TexasNationals

Ethics, you realize where and whom you work for right?? Seriously?

Walkerfan

How nerve wracking! I hope that you sort out this sticky situation.

I would give it A LITTLE time, then I would follow up with criminal/legal action.

This IS VERY ILLEGAL---to keep those coins and he could get into some serious trouble for sure. I would make that very clear to him.

Ethics have definitely gone to the wayside these days it seems.

DIMEMAN

I guess I an old school. I would have let you know right away......because it's right and I would want you to do the same for me.

Hope he gets back to you soon.

Kaelasdad

The coins were delivered on July 23rd. The receiver is in North Carolina. I agree that shipping would be covered and a coin sent as a thank you--just kind of hoping this blows over, but Im very very surprised the individual didnt bring it up--this economy seems to be making everyone really count cents.


And Jeff, this was out of my own shop, and we take ethics personally. We are accountable for our actions.


Sorry, I have the same disease my assistant has, putting in wrong information, date was July, not September.

Buzzybest

Just remember that if the wrongful receiver doesn't return the coins,and also doesn't report the windfall on his Federal Income Tax return,he is
quilty of income tax evasion. That's how they got Al Capone,the famous 1930s gangster when they couldn't convict him of murder!

DrBuster

<< <i>The coins were delivered on September 23rd. The receiver is in North Carolina. I agree that shipping would be covered and a coin sent as a thank you--just kind of hoping this blows over, but Im very very surprised the individual didnt bring it up--this economy seems to be making everyone really count cents.


And Jeff, this was out of my own shop, and we take ethics personally. We are accountable for our actions. >>



10 months later?! SOL at this point and you are beyond ethics time to make the buyer whole.

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>How long since delivered? Not everyone opens the mail or even sees it the day it comes in.

Legal threats should be a very last resort, those types of messages don't encourage people to work with you. >>



i agree. i've worked with some very good people that were very slow to respond for some diverse reasons. problem is you can't know which is which.

actually there is a package collecting dust that a client paid for that wasn't signed for, sat for the PO requirement of 15 days plus to ship there and back to me and i have left messages with them since they paid and now don't have the coins and i am literally thinking the client is either in a coma or has passed. the package will continue to collect dust.

if the package was signed for you are able to find out whom signed. at least when i ship signature confirm it says whom signed when i check.

hope it can work out positively for everyone. i feel for the client that ordered the 4 coins.
.

LindeDad

Isn't the law that if you send something to someone it's there's just like a gift. Not the answer one wants to hear but ethical and legal are two different things.

BTW that tax evasion thing would not come into play until he sold them right?

acloco

Have you contacted the local police department of the receiver of the shipments???

JamesM

Personally I would put this as the cost of doing business and move on.

But you could (and I would) try offering the guy a few hundred dollars for the coins back to cut your loss.

PerryHall

Why did you take 10 months to bring up this topic? You should have taken action after 10 days.

mrcoin3

I think I'd send a guy named Guido to have a chat with him.

Cougar1978

I don't think there is anything you can do about it and so does he. Perhaps an inventory writeoff? If its been ten months I don't think he is going to return them.

I heard a story years ago while set up at a show about a similar situation. A guy got about 6 Double Eagles he did not order along with the MS 64 common date dollar he did. They tried to locate him but its like he just disappeared.

One has to be very careful when shipping multiple packages.

Buzzybest

<< <i>Why did you take 10 months to bring up this topic? You should have taken action after 10 days. >>



Probably because it's been a slow day here on the Forum. No broken bar stools yet! Well,maybe a couple.

okracer

<< <i>The coins were delivered on September 23rd. The receiver is in North Carolina. I agree that shipping would be covered and a coin sent as a thank you--just kind of hoping this blows over, but Im very very surprised the individual didnt bring it up--this economy seems to be making everyone really count cents.


And Jeff, this was out of my own shop, and we take ethics personally. We are accountable for our actions. >>




....did you mean July 23rd? Since you got an email from the buyer "this morning".......

CCC2010

Sorry to hear your plight. I am in a bit of a similar situation right now with regards to being in the shoes one of your buyers waiting for his coin. Its been 18 days now and still no coin for me. Seller is waiting for advice from his friends here in the board as to what to do next. For me its a no brainer that my money should be refunded as i have asked and or sent a replacement coin of equal value of my choosing. Would insurance cover in your case OP?

ebaybuyer

seems that all the blame is being placed on the guy that did nothing more than other coins and get extras, rather than threatening him or questioning his ethics, id have to consider this is more your fault than his, or your assistants fault, why would anyone send two packages to the same address as opposed to combining them ? how would that NOT raise a flag ? im assuming each package had an accompanying invoice... so... im sorry, i think i would be greatful that it was only 900 and not several thousand. i know this is in contrast to what most have said here but im in the personal responsibility crowd. he wasnt responsible for mailing the packages to himself, legal and ethical are words that dont even belong in the same sentence.

BryceM

I dunno. If I had gotten them I would probaby just write "return to sender" on the thing and drop it in the mail. If I wasn't too busy and it was easy to figure out who sent them I'd drop them a note to let them know they were on the way back. I'd at least give it a chance.

If that doesn't work you can avail yourself of the ideas posted here. It might be a little rough when you actually addressed the package to the person who got them.

mrpotatoheadd

There's a difference between sending unsolicited merchandise to someone and then billing for it and sending something by mistake to the wrong address. I would expect most people could figure this out, but I guess I could be wrong.

CEOcoinshopcom

All the years, and all the deals. I've found that MOST of the coin folks out there are high on the ethics chart.
There's always a couple of bad apples. But we don't get bad checks, miss-sent coins get returned, and errors in money get fixed.
You didn't really say what contact you had with the guy, phone? email? what?
I think if you talk with him, you might get it straight.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>There's a difference between sending unsolicited merchandise to someone and then billing for it and sending something by mistake to the wrong address. I would expect most people could figure this out, but I guess I could be wrong. >>



Yep. Since the recipient did indeed order from the shipper, his claim for unsolicited merchandise would most likely be invalid.

WestySteve

Little off topic, but over the weekend, I won a cheap MS64 Morgan in an ANACs slab in silent auction at the Tallahassee coin show. Somewhere in the confusion of paying for it, collecting for my own auction entries and shooting the bull, I left it on an exhibit. Yep...it's gone, gone, gone. Stupid me.

ebaybuyer

ok, lets go a step further, if the guy did write "return to sender" on the mailer and drop it at the post office, and it never showed up, who is responsible at that point ? is it still on the guy who did nothing other than receive a package that someone else should have gotten ? did he sign for the second package or was delivery assumed ? ive sent mailers with del conf and they show delivered but the person swears they never received it. i used to believe most people are honest, well, i ebayed about 100 2$-5$ coins in separate auctions with free shipping, rather than spend $1.85 with a mailer, i just sent them in envelopes, in 2x2's sanwiched between cardboard, and "laminated" the envelopes with tape..... i bet one in three "never showed up" free shipping wasnt good enough, they had to get the coin for free as well. taught me a cheap but valuable lesson, some people are dishonest.

UNLVino

<< <i>ok, lets go a step further, if the guy did write "return to sender" on the mailer and drop it at the post office, and it never showed up, who is responsible at that point ? is it still on the guy who did nothing other than receive a package that someone else should have gotten ? did he sign for the second package or was delivery assumed ? ive sent mailers with del conf and they show delivered but the person swears they never received it. i used to believe most people are honest, well, i ebayed about 100 2$-5$ coins in separate auctions with free shipping, rather than spend $1.85 with a mailer, i just sent them in envelopes, in 2x2's sanwiched between cardboard, and "laminated" the envelopes with tape..... i bet one in three "never showed up" free shipping wasnt good enough, they had to get the coin for free as well. taught me a cheap but valuable lesson, some people are dishonest. >>



There is also the real (although remote) possibility the guy only got one package and the other is lost (or assistant lacks ethics), now the guy who only got his $200 coin is wondering why he's being harasses. Remote I know, but assumptions are assumptions. Hope it works out. I've been lucky that the two mail snafus I was involved with worked out in the end. I was also quick on a making negative assumptions.

Buzzybest

Listen,if it were me,I would just pay a little visit to his address with a few of my bigger friends(from this forum) and retrieve my coins!

barrytrot

<< <i>Listen,if it were me,I would just pay a little visit to his address with a few of my bigger friends(from this forum) and retrieve my coins! >>



"bigger" and "from this forum" doesn't mean tough it's the other kind of bigger

Buzzybest

<< <i>

<< <i>Listen,if it were me,I would just pay a little visit to his address with a few of my bigger friends(from this forum) and retrieve my coins! >>



"bigger" and "from this forum" doesn't mean tough it's the other kind of bigger >>



Funny! I figured we could rent a bus to pick everyone up and ask Stephanie to take pictures of the trip to post here. Depending on the excitement of the trip and the outcome,a book or movie deal might be in the works. Probably might want to bring some bail money.....just in case it gets too exciting.

mozin

I am sorry for your loss, but you should have dealt with this situation within a month of the mistake. To ask this forum to support you this late is foolish.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>My reply was to a general question on unsolicited packages, (not specifically to the OP,) and was not meant as any sort of suggestion the guy should keep the 'extras'. >>

Didn't mean to say it was. Unfortunately, there have been posts here in the past that indicated it was truly believed that a misaddressed package could actually be kept as a "gift".

pennyannie

<< <i>Listen,if it were me,I would just pay a little visit to his address with a few of my bigger friends(from this forum) and retrieve my coins! >>



When the dust settles that 900 blunder will look cheap compared to what would happen if you actually tried something like that. What you could get away with 20 years ago will not fly anymore.

Years ago i used to be judge and jury on evictions. I would tell them that if they were not out in 10 days i would move to the curb. I did that a couple of times. now they would probably end up with the duplex.

I paid for a coin a few years back from an auction win on ebay. The coin was worth more than the one i won. I notified the seller and told me to send it back and he would ship the correct one. I asked him to send 15 bucks to my paypal account to cover the shipping, insurance and what not. He got bent out of shape and said he would send it with my coin when he got the one i had back. I got my coin but not the money spent to ship the other back. Next time the coin will sit until the ranson is paid. While i do not feel the need to keep something that is not mine, i will not waste my time and nickel on a ungrateful person.

I have been clipped a few times over the years on ebay to the tune of around 1k. I just write it off as the cost of doing business. Not worth the headache to fight some of them.

I consider it a good year if i only get beat out of 10k on my main business. Some people are just out to grab all they can from any and everyone.

Kaelasdad

Id like to thank all those who replied to the post--either with opinions, advice or just a comment--thats one of the reasons I posted, I didnt blame the buyer (as yet) I was just questioning out loud as to what the outcome might be or was going to be. I assumed all responsibility, I would not have gone to the cops, or resorted to any threats, its not my nature when it is obviously either my own fault or the fault of someone I gave responsibility to. I thought I had waited long enough to assume the worst was occurring I did not consider someone on an extended vacation. I agree it was a stupid mistake, and Im sure my assistant is fully aware of it--but we all make mistakes, and I usually do a 3 check before something is shipped, --so i have learned from this as well. High ticket items get final approval from me from now on. The buck starts here, it stops here to.

Banemorth

Glad it all worked out for you!

BAJJERFAN

All's swell that ends swell!!!!

Treashunt

Ya see, all those negative comments, and the buyer was a good guy.


There could always be a valid reason for a delay in responding.



Except, of course, for the post office, which just stinks in general.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Ya see, all those negative comments, and the buyer was a good guy.


There could always be a valid reason for a delay in responding.



Except, of course, for the post office, which just stinks in general. >>



Lately, the USPS has been very very good to me, esp. regarding delivery times. YMMV

Bochiman

Glad it worked out. In the summer, and around Thanksgiving/Christmas, I always default to thinking that people are on vacation.
Some folks do still take those, after all

Too many people try to make others their mirror image and go by their own schedule......have to understand the larger scope.

Buzzybest

I'm still gonna miss an exciting bus trip with Stephanie!