Hello Everyone: I see our announcement has created a flurry of reaction, mostly negative. I was not aware of this thread until someone just called and let me know about it (which is why I have not responded sooner).
First of all, let me say, the good thing about starting something from scratch is you have the ability to change things and incorporate ideas from others, so thank you all for your comments. We will, of course, review the concerns you have--most of which seem to the the bidder's fee. Nothing is carved in stone at this point.
By way of explanation, here was our thinking behind the bidder/registration one-time fees. As someone pointed out in the thread, we are trying to protect the integrity of the site which is why we incorporated the bidder fee. With regard to the $100 fee, this is for those participants who are unknown to us (as stated in the text), otherwise, the fee will be waived (Our goal is to carefully screen participants to protect everyone who uses the site--both for buyers and sellers, to the best of our ability).
Please note, as indicated in the copy online, the bidder pays NO BUYERS PREMIUM on any lots. Additonally, there are no FINAL VALUE FEES passed on to the seller nor are there any LISTING FEES should the seller choose the top tier of $99/month.
The vision for the auction site is to provide collectors and dealers a marketplace whereby they can deal with their favorite people all in one forum, and purchase a world-class product they want, namely, PCGS graded material.
We will have handouts explaining the site in more detail at the ANA in Philly. Please stop by our table, #928, to pick up additional information and discuss the site with us. As mentioned earlier, we appreciate your comments and constructive criticisms. Our goal is to offer the collecting community and dealers a great online auction site.
I'd rather pay per lot won than for the ability to maybe win a lot. The business model doesn't look like it won't be a hit with collectors. Strange business model.
People continue to list on ebay (and to a lesser extent, some of the other auction houses) because of the number of eyeballs they can deliver. You want to charge your eyeballs, but remember they ARE THE PRODUCT. Why do you think google provides so many free services? It's because you're not the customer, you're the product they sell to advertisers. Same reason those online dating site let women join for free -- women are the product. It's the same thing for you. Buyers are the product that you deliver to sellers.
<< <i>Hello Everyone: I see our announcement has created a flurry of reaction, mostly negative. I was not aware of this thread until someone just called and let me know about it (which is why I have not responded sooner).
First of all, let me say, the good thing about starting something from scratch is you have the ability to change things and incorporate ideas from others, so thank you all for your comments. We will, of course, review the concerns you have--most of which seem to the the bidder's fee. Nothing is carved in stone at this point.
By way of explanation, here was our thinking behind the bidder/registration one-time fees. As someone pointed out in the thread, we are trying to protect the integrity of the site which is why we incorporated the bidder fee. With regard to the $100 fee, this is for those participants who are unknown to us (as stated in the text), otherwise, the fee will be waived (Our goal is to carefully screen participants to protect everyone who uses the site--both for buyers and sellers, to the best of our ability).
Please note, as indicated in the copy online, the bidder pays NO BUYERS PREMIUM on any lots. Additonally, there are no FINAL VALUE FEES passed on to the seller nor are there any LISTING FEES should the seller choose the top tier of $99/month.
The vision for the auction site is to provide collectors and dealers a marketplace whereby they can deal with their favorite people all in one forum, and purchase a world-class product they want, namely, PCGS graded material.
We will have handouts explaining the site in more detail at the ANA in Philly. Please stop by our table, #928, to pick up additional information and discuss the site with us. As mentioned earlier, we appreciate your comments and constructive criticisms. Our goal is to offer the collecting community and dealers a great online auction site.
We hope to see you all in Philly!
Best wishes,
Liz Coggan J J Teaparty, Inc. >>
I do not see how charging 100 dollars to those you do not know protects the integrity of the site or otherwise adequately screens participants......
Also as a potential consignor I would be very hesitant due to a lack of eyeballs and subsequent fear of a poor hammer price for me.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I think the buyer fees have to go completely for this site to have a chance to be a success. I also believe that anyone can start a auction site but it takes huge traffic for a site to be successful. I think all fees would have to be waived till this site builds up a following and people are listing and buying at a rate that is both pleasing to the seller and buyer. Good luck!
Charging people for what is essentially free everywhere else is not going to be a business model that works. Yes, you pay more at the big auction sites in terms of an added 15 or 17.5 percent surcharge. But you factor that into your bid as you only care what the final charge is. The underbidder has ZERO fees in this structure. If I feel a coin is a 2400 coin, I will bid such that with the vig my bid turns out to be around 2400.
The little guy is never going to pay either a start up fee or a regular fee to bid. There are too many coins on eBay and other sites. Also, the registration fee is absurd. If you want to screen folks, just make them use a valid credit card. I seriously doubt much authentication is going on of bidders and the $100 fee is just another way to milk people. No one else does this, so why would we pay them for the privilege.
Some of the structure makes sense if you sell 100s of coins a month. But the little guy, who is the heart and soul of low end collecting will never go for this. As much as I like JJ Teaparty, this venture is a fools errand that will end badly unless they change a bunch of the structure. Another place for online auctions would be welcomed and I do like their inventory, but maybe they should emulate eBay's fee structure to a degree, or Teletrade.
I wish them well, but with this fee structure I will not be participating.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
<< <i>With regard to the $100 fee, this is for those participants who are unknown to us (as stated in the text), otherwise, the fee will be waived >>
So new (to you) collectors will avoid your auctions because they will not want to pay a bidder's subscription fee. You're making your auctions an exclusive club and actually limiting your bidder base. Shouldn't you be doing the opposite?
<< <i>The vision for the auction site is to provide collectors and dealers a marketplace whereby they can deal with their favorite people all in one forum, and purchase a world-class product they want, namely, PCGS graded material. >>
The BST on this forum does that already without the bidder's subscription. And I can buy from my favorite dealers and collectors anytime on their own web sites, coin shows, or directly from them without a subscription fee. You are not supplying any advantage to the buyer and you are adding a fee on top of it.
I understand what you are trying to do, but you really need to rethink your business model and make it more friendly and less discriminatory towards new collectors and therefore future and present growth. (In other words lose the subscription fee.) As the older collector base, that is known to you and doesn't pay a subscription fee, thins over time so will you're bidding participants. You're establishing a business model that is against future growth.
Speaking of dealers starting on-line auction companies, any updates on Legend's new coin auction venture?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
PerryHall: limit participation to dealers and serious collectors and to keep out the riff-raff and tire kickers.
I'm a serious tire kicker.Ya gotta be in this economy.I'm currently evaluating my PCGS membership which is coming up for renewal,as an example. Do I cancel my membership for the next year?Do I spend more and upgrade to a higher level?
Perhaps better term would be "value shopper."
LizCoggin: the bidder pays NO BUYERS PREMIUM on any lots. Additonally, there are no FINAL VALUE FEES passed on to the seller nor are there any LISTING FEES should the seller choose the top tier of $99/month.
Still,it's $9.95/mo fee to be a bidder.IMO,this is not something a good many value shopping bidders will want to put up with when the likes of ebay/PayPal is around.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
I have always had great service and smooth transactions with JJ Teaparty. They are definately one of the good ones. Having said that, I can not see going through some elaborate subsciption ordeal to bid in their auctions. As a consigner, why mess with them, when I can get a much larger audience with a major house, such as Heritage.
<< <i>the bidder pays NO BUYERS PREMIUM on any lots. Additonally, there are no FINAL VALUE FEES passed on to the seller nor are there any LISTING FEES should the seller choose the top tier of $99/month. >>
The price a bidder pays for a lot has nothing to do with buyer's premiums, only the actual bid changes. I don't see this working out well when sellers see bidders chased away by a bidding fee that doesn't guarantee winning a lot.
Did everyone miss out on the reason for the upfront fees? They stated it was to pay for a background check. I am not comfortable with any company, be they coin sellers or car sellers feeling a new to do a back ground check on me. I'm clean and have no issues but I am not happy with the thought that I have to pass a background check to be able to bid on coins. If you have my credit card number and billing address and my charges go through every time then what else do you need to know to be able to sell me coins? If I were going to bid on a 6 figure coin then I could see asking for a bank letter of credit but a 500 coin shouldn't come with those kinds of strings.
Sorry but as a potential seller I have no interest in paying $100 to see if I am worthy of paying additional monthly fees when I can have, say, an Ebay store for half the cost of the lowest tier mentioned and expose myself to millions of buyers... or simply just list auctions there whenever I wish with no recurring monthly fees.
...and as a potential bidder, I have no interest in paying $10/month for the privilege of merely being able to bid on items from people from whom the host is already deriving significant income. I could understand some reasonable buyer's premium if I won perhaps, but not a regular monthly fee just to be able to bid.
<< <i>Speaking of dealers starting on-line auction companies, any updates on Legend's new coin auction venture? >>
Wouldn't that make more sense to ask in a thread about that, instead of a thread about the JJT auctions? Let's do try to keep things ontrack in a thread, for once, please
<< <i>Hello Everyone: I see our announcement has created a flurry of reaction, mostly negative. >>
Nope. As far as I can tell, ALL of the reaction has been negative.
I absolutely applaud anyone trying to provide auction alternatives to eBay and the rest. Competition is a healthy thing and promotes innovation and cost-control. I don't think this is the right way to get consignors though. I wouldn't have any interest in a site that attempted to limit the amount of bidders in any way.
A few thoughts after (not very carefully) reviewing this thread and the website.
First, this appears to be a platform on which any registered member can run their own auctions. It's not just JJT running their own sales. In that sense, it's more of a specialized competitor to eBay, and not so much what you would normally expect from an "auction company". More needs to be done to communicate this distinction, I think.
Second, I can see how the site could be very useful, for example, as an alternative to a sealed bid auction of Early US Quarters by die variety. It would not be hard to get the hardcore collectors to visit for a significant sale, and hardcore collectors are for the most part the only ones that usually participate in such affairs. (The site won't be a viable alternative for less specialized offerings, at least for a a long time, because it takes a lot more eyeballs to make something like that work.)
Third, the $100 fee was probably not a good idea, but fixing it will be easy enough. JJT doesn't want bogus bidders messing things up for everybody, which makes enough sense. However, a $1 charge to a credit card would probably accomplish the same thing, and even that could be avoided in most cases.
Bottom line is that I think the site can be viable and useful, and it would be foolish to write it off as a potential source of coins, at least at this stage of the game.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The $9.95 bidder fee per 30 day period (month) only applies IF you choose to execute a bid. You are able to browse the auction listings for free whenever you choose, to see if there is something you want to bid on. Additionally, you do not have to subscribe for a full year, you can do as I indicated earlier, just subscribe for 30 days at time if you choose.
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, this model of subscriptions is set up as an alternative to EBAY, where your costs, if you are a seller or buyer are fixed--no hidden surprises--such as buyers premiums or final value fees or listing fees if you are top level subscriber. Additionally, if you are the seller, you control the inventory--you don't consign it to JJ Teaparty Online auctions for us to handle for you, unless you choose that option, you are the seller and conduct the transaction and keep your clients.
Think of it this way, if say, you are a successful bidder for a $5,000 coin, all it cost you to buy the coin is the $5,000 bid and $9.95 for that month's subscription. No buyers premium of an additional 10% up to 17.5%.
Additionally, if you are the seller of this $5,000 coin, the buyer is not going to back off his bid by some percentage because he has to factor in the buyers premium, so you get more money for your coins AND you pay no FINAL VALUE FEE or LISTING FEE--just your straight subscription cost at the Platinum level which is $99/month. If you sold this same coin on ebay and paid just the listing and final value fees it would cost over $135!
Please note I am not saying we have made any final decisions about our subscription structure, I am just attempting to clarify some points that may have been confusing or not explained fully.
Please stop by in Philly and talk with us--we care about your opinions and want this to be a site that is beneficial to everyone.
Liz, While certainly not a scientific survey, you have 50+ opinions against your auction model and none saying, "hey, this is a great new idea." FWIW...
I'd rather pay a 1% buyers fee or something like that you are fighting againist what your customers want.
You would be better off giving customers what they want which is a low cost auction site. Look at Great Collections it been a success because it gives people what they want a low cost auction site.
<< <i>Think of it this way, if say, you are a successful bidder for a $5,000 coin, all it cost you to buy the coin is the $5,000 bid and $9.95 for that month's subscription. No buyers premium of an additional 10% up to 17.5%. >>
As I said before, as a bidder, the buyer's fee will not affect my cost. If I'm a successful bidder for a $5,000 coin when there's a 15% buyer's premium, I'm still only going to pay $5,000, because my bid will be $4,348. If there's no buyer's fee and I bid $4,900 and get outbid by someone bidding $5,000, I'm out $10 with nothing to show for it except perhaps for a chip on my shoulder which will make me hesitant to bid in future auctions. In that future auction, I may have been willing to bid $5,000 for a coin, but my staying away means that the coin will sell a bidder who decided not to stay away for less money, and now you have to explain to a seller that a bidder's previous experience with your terms chased them away from his auction. It should not be hard to figure out what kind of modest buyer's fee would give you the same revenue as the monthly bidder fee.
You are correct, we, J J Teaparty Online Auctions, would be much better off charging a modest buyer's premium --even 1%. In this case we would make $50 instead of $9.95 on just one coin.
Our attempt was to do what we thought was best for the collector and seller. . but I see your point.
I guess the majority of respondents on this site would rather pay the buyer's premium for something they actually purchase, than to pay a modest subscription fee to bid and not have to pay a buyers premium if they are successful.
<< <i>I guess the majority of respondents on this site would rather pay the buyer's premium for something they actually purchase, than to pay a modest subscription fee to bid and not have to pay a buyers premium if they are successful. >>
Liz,
John has a good explanation of the situation above. What he's basically saying is that, from the buyer's perspective, there is no buyer's premium because it's factored into the bid. If someone wants to pay $x dollars and there's a y% buyer's premium, they simply bid $b = $x * (1 - y%) to arrive at $x. It seems like the buyer's premium is a delineation the auction house makes for accounting and other purposes but buyers don't view it as an additional cost because it's built-in.
So the real comparison from the buyer's point of view is (a) paying a subscription fee vs. (b) paying nothing.
<< <i>It seems like the buyer's premium is delineation the auction house makes for accounting and other purposes but buyers don't view it as an additional cost to the bidder because it's built-in. >>
If that's so, why do buyers complain when auction houses raise the buyer's premium in their auctions?
<< <i>It seems like the buyer's premium is delineation the auction house makes for accounting and other purposes but buyers don't view it as an additional cost to the bidder because it's built-in. >>
If that's so, why do buyers complain when auction houses raise the buyer's premium in their auctions? >>
Perhaps:
(a) not everyone figures in the buyer's premium into their bid, or (b) it's good chitchat
<< <i>You are correct, we, J J Teaparty Online Auctions, would be much better off charging a modest buyer's premium --even 1%. In this case we would make $50 instead of $9.95 on just one coin.
Our attempt was to do what we thought was best for the collector and seller. . but I see your point.
I guess the majority of respondents on this site would rather pay the buyer's premium for something they actually purchase, than to pay a modest subscription fee to bid and not have to pay a buyers premium if they are successful. >>
Liz,
I hear the frustration coming out in "the tone of your text" but something to understand is the feelings about the last part of your message.......(I bolded it above).
Many of us have been in "heated" auctions where we want to win, but someone wanted it more. That's how it goes. The sticking point that I think you are missing, from your wording, is the IF the bidder is successful, they save a ton of money. Any month that one bids and is NOT successful, it was a wasted $10.
I have been on TT for only about 4-5 years now. I have won coins there, and bid on way more than I have won. I have probably only won coins there a total of 10-12 different months. So, comparing that timeline against your proposed "value", that would be ~38-50 months ($380-$500) worth of fees, for nothing. Would it be less than what I spent in buyer's premium? Maybe. Quite likely....if I bought the expensive coins. In the last year or so, I think I have won something maybe once or twice, but only 1 month. But, I bid more than that, in other months. That would be $110 that I would be out.
That's the type of thing many of us are looking at right now.
For many of us, coins are not a business, they are a luxury and a fun hobby....that's why we buy from you (I have bought "a few" coins from you and they have been nice coins, and I have paid up for them because of that). However, the economy isn't the same as it was in '98-'99 with the dotcom going on and everyone seeming to have more money than they knew what to do with. Even if what you are offering is ultimately cheaper, the initial view of it, and the, very likely, chance that one will spend money and win nothing, is what is hitting folks.
Heh? They think I'm going to give them my SSN and everything else so that they can do a background check? Not in this lifetime. I don't know one employee at JJ Teaparty and the expect me to TRUST them?
What is the point of the background check? Can't wait for my check to clear? Then I'll give them my American Express which has no limit and to heck with giving them anything else.
Is a background check common? Perhaps I'm out of the loop on this.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
Liz, I would strongly suggest that you reconsider reconsidering. Everyone is always asking for sellers to try something new, and then when someone does, no one wants to accept the change. Now that it has been spelled out, I think that you should structure the auction as you conceived it. If people see a coin that they want, they will be more than happy to shell out the $10 and go for it. It is more important that the auctions are transparent, any reserves are clearly posted, there's no shilling, the photos are high quality, the coins ship promptly, credit cards are accepted, etc.
Comments
<< <i>Can't wait for the day when feepay, and the major auction houses adopt the Beezid, and Quibids method of auctions in charging a fee per bid. >>
I doubt it. Those "penny auctions" are essentially unregulated gambling.
<< <i>Hmmmmm. I generally like JJ's approach to coins, but I'm not sure about this idea.
I wouldn't be a player in such a system. There are too many other options. >>
First of all, let me say, the good thing about starting something from scratch is you have the ability to change things and incorporate ideas from others, so thank you all for your comments. We will, of course, review the concerns you have--most of which seem to the the bidder's fee. Nothing is carved in stone at this point.
By way of explanation, here was our thinking behind the bidder/registration one-time fees. As someone pointed out in the thread, we are trying to protect the integrity of the site which is why we incorporated the bidder fee. With regard to the $100 fee, this is for those participants who are unknown to us (as stated in the text), otherwise, the fee will be waived (Our goal is to carefully screen participants to protect everyone who uses the site--both for buyers and sellers, to the best of our ability).
Please note, as indicated in the copy online, the bidder pays NO BUYERS PREMIUM on any lots. Additonally, there are no FINAL VALUE FEES passed on to the seller nor are there any LISTING FEES should the seller choose the top tier of $99/month.
The vision for the auction site is to provide collectors and dealers a marketplace whereby they can deal with their favorite people all in one forum, and purchase a world-class product they want, namely, PCGS graded material.
We will have handouts explaining the site in more detail at the ANA in Philly. Please stop by our table, #928, to pick up additional information and discuss the site with us. As mentioned earlier, we appreciate your comments and constructive criticisms. Our goal is to offer the collecting community and dealers a great online auction site.
We hope to see you all in Philly!
Best wishes,
Liz Coggan
J J Teaparty, Inc.
probably will keep them unknown too...
People continue to list on ebay (and to a lesser extent, some of the other auction houses) because of the number of eyeballs they can deliver. You want to charge your eyeballs, but remember they ARE THE PRODUCT. Why do you think google provides so many free services? It's because you're not the customer, you're the product they sell to advertisers. Same reason those online dating site let women join for free -- women are the product. It's the same thing for you. Buyers are the product that you deliver to sellers.
<< <i>Hello Everyone: I see our announcement has created a flurry of reaction, mostly negative. I was not aware of this thread until someone just called and let me know about it (which is why I have not responded sooner).
First of all, let me say, the good thing about starting something from scratch is you have the ability to change things and incorporate ideas from others, so thank you all for your comments. We will, of course, review the concerns you have--most of which seem to the the bidder's fee. Nothing is carved in stone at this point.
By way of explanation, here was our thinking behind the bidder/registration one-time fees. As someone pointed out in the thread, we are trying to protect the integrity of the site which is why we incorporated the bidder fee. With regard to the $100 fee, this is for those participants who are unknown to us (as stated in the text), otherwise, the fee will be waived (Our goal is to carefully screen participants to protect everyone who uses the site--both for buyers and sellers, to the best of our ability).
Please note, as indicated in the copy online, the bidder pays NO BUYERS PREMIUM on any lots. Additonally, there are no FINAL VALUE FEES passed on to the seller nor are there any LISTING FEES should the seller choose the top tier of $99/month.
The vision for the auction site is to provide collectors and dealers a marketplace whereby they can deal with their favorite people all in one forum, and purchase a world-class product they want, namely, PCGS graded material.
We will have handouts explaining the site in more detail at the ANA in Philly. Please stop by our table, #928, to pick up additional information and discuss the site with us. As mentioned earlier, we appreciate your comments and constructive criticisms. Our goal is to offer the collecting community and dealers a great online auction site.
We hope to see you all in Philly!
Best wishes,
Liz Coggan
J J Teaparty, Inc. >>
I do not see how charging 100 dollars to those you do not know protects the integrity of the site or otherwise adequately screens participants......
Also as a potential consignor I would be very hesitant due to a lack of eyeballs and subsequent fear of a poor hammer price for me.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I think the buyer fees have to go completely for this site to have a chance to be a success. I also believe that anyone can start a auction site but it takes huge traffic for a site to be successful. I think all fees would have to be waived till this site builds up a following and people are listing and buying at a rate that is both pleasing to the seller and buyer. Good luck!
The little guy is never going to pay either a start up fee or a regular fee to bid. There are too many coins on eBay and other sites. Also, the registration fee is absurd. If you want to screen folks, just make them use a valid credit card. I seriously doubt much authentication is going on of bidders and the $100 fee is just another way to milk people. No one else does this, so why would we pay them for the privilege.
Some of the structure makes sense if you sell 100s of coins a month. But the little guy, who is the heart and soul of low end collecting will never go for this. As much as I like JJ Teaparty, this venture is a fools errand that will end badly unless they change a bunch of the structure. Another place for online auctions would be welcomed and I do like their inventory, but maybe they should emulate eBay's fee structure to a degree, or Teletrade.
I wish them well, but with this fee structure I will not be participating.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>With regard to the $100 fee, this is for those participants who are unknown to us (as stated in the text), otherwise, the fee will be waived >>
So new (to you) collectors will avoid your auctions because they will not want to pay a bidder's subscription fee. You're making your auctions an exclusive club and actually limiting your bidder base. Shouldn't you be doing the opposite?
<< <i>The vision for the auction site is to provide collectors and dealers a marketplace whereby they can deal with their favorite people all in one forum, and purchase a world-class product they want, namely, PCGS graded material. >>
The BST on this forum does that already without the bidder's subscription. And I can buy from my favorite dealers and collectors anytime on their own web sites, coin shows, or directly from them without a subscription fee. You are not supplying any advantage to the buyer and you are adding a fee on top of it.
I understand what you are trying to do, but you really need to rethink your business model and make it more friendly and less discriminatory towards new collectors and therefore future and present growth. (In other words lose the subscription fee.) As the older collector base, that is known to you and doesn't pay a subscription fee, thins over time so will you're bidding participants. You're establishing a business model that is against future growth.
I will not be participating in your auctions.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
PerryHall:
limit participation to dealers and serious collectors and to keep out the riff-raff and tire kickers.
I'm a serious tire kicker.Ya gotta be in this economy.I'm currently evaluating my PCGS membership which is coming up for renewal,as an example.
Do I cancel my membership for the next year?Do I spend more and upgrade to a higher level?
Perhaps better term would be "value shopper."
LizCoggin:
the bidder pays NO BUYERS PREMIUM on any lots. Additonally, there are no FINAL VALUE FEES passed on to the seller nor are there any LISTING FEES should the seller choose the top tier of $99/month.
Still,it's $9.95/mo fee to be a bidder.IMO,this is not something a good many value shopping bidders will want to put up with when the likes of ebay/PayPal is around.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
<< <i>the bidder pays NO BUYERS PREMIUM on any lots. Additonally, there are no FINAL VALUE FEES passed on to the seller nor are there any LISTING FEES should the seller choose the top tier of $99/month. >>
The price a bidder pays for a lot has nothing to do with buyer's premiums, only the actual bid changes. I don't see this working out well when sellers see bidders chased away by a bidding fee that doesn't guarantee winning a lot.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I'll just stick with ebay for the time being.
Ask any of the auction houses...... a large bidding pool is the key to auctions. Weak bidding pool...... low prices....Sellers will not consign.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
(Edited for punctuation.)
...and as a potential bidder, I have no interest in paying $10/month for the privilege of merely being able to bid on items from people from whom the host is already deriving significant income. I could understand some reasonable buyer's premium if I won perhaps, but not a regular monthly fee just to be able to bid.
In short- No thanks. I'll pass.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Speaking of dealers starting on-line auction companies, any updates on Legend's new coin auction venture? >>
Wouldn't that make more sense to ask in a thread about that, instead of a thread about the JJT auctions? Let's do try to keep things ontrack in a thread, for once, please
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
<< <i>Hello Everyone: I see our announcement has created a flurry of reaction, mostly negative. >>
Nope. As far as I can tell, ALL of the reaction has been negative.
I absolutely applaud anyone trying to provide auction alternatives to eBay and the rest. Competition is a healthy thing and promotes innovation and cost-control. I don't think this is the right way to get consignors though. I wouldn't have any interest in a site that attempted to limit the amount of bidders in any way.
First, this appears to be a platform on which any registered member can run their own auctions. It's not just JJT running their own sales. In that sense, it's more of a specialized competitor to eBay, and not so much what you would normally expect from an "auction company". More needs to be done to communicate this distinction, I think.
Second, I can see how the site could be very useful, for example, as an alternative to a sealed bid auction of Early US Quarters by die variety. It would not be hard to get the hardcore collectors to visit for a significant sale, and hardcore collectors are for the most part the only ones that usually participate in such affairs. (The site won't be a viable alternative for less specialized offerings, at least for a a long time, because it takes a lot more eyeballs to make something like that work.)
Third, the $100 fee was probably not a good idea, but fixing it will be easy enough. JJT doesn't want bogus bidders messing things up for everybody, which makes enough sense. However, a $1 charge to a credit card would probably accomplish the same thing, and even that could be avoided in most cases.
Bottom line is that I think the site can be viable and useful, and it would be foolish to write it off as a potential source of coins, at least at this stage of the game.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Interesting way of doing things and I wish them luck, but I won't be participating. >>
^^^THIS^^^^
The $9.95 bidder fee per 30 day period (month) only applies IF you choose to execute a bid. You are able to browse the auction listings for free whenever you choose, to see if there is something you want to bid on. Additionally, you do not have to subscribe for a full year, you can do as I indicated earlier, just subscribe for 30 days at time if you choose.
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, this model of subscriptions is set up as an alternative to EBAY, where your costs, if you are a seller or buyer are fixed--no hidden surprises--such as buyers premiums or final value fees or listing fees if you are top level subscriber. Additionally, if you are the seller, you control the inventory--you don't consign it to JJ Teaparty Online auctions for us to handle for you, unless you choose that option, you are the seller and conduct the transaction and keep your clients.
Think of it this way, if say, you are a successful bidder for a $5,000 coin, all it cost you to buy the coin is the $5,000 bid and $9.95 for that month's subscription. No buyers premium of an additional 10% up to 17.5%.
Additionally, if you are the seller of this $5,000 coin, the buyer is not going to back off his bid by some percentage because he has to factor in the buyers premium, so you get more money for your coins AND you pay no FINAL VALUE FEE or LISTING FEE--just your straight subscription cost at the Platinum level which is $99/month. If you sold this same coin on ebay and paid just the listing and final value fees it would cost over $135!
Please note I am not saying we have made any final decisions about our subscription structure, I am just attempting to clarify some points that may have been confusing or not explained fully.
Please stop by in Philly and talk with us--we care about your opinions and want this to be a site that is beneficial to everyone.
See you soon--Liz Coggan
While certainly not a scientific survey, you have 50+ opinions against your auction model and none saying, "hey, this is a great new idea."
FWIW...
You would be better off giving customers what they want which is a low cost auction site. Look at Great Collections it been a success because it gives people what they want a low cost auction site.
and don't expect potential buyers to pay them for the ability to see what's for sale.
but if it works for you more power to you
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Think of it this way, if say, you are a successful bidder for a $5,000 coin, all it cost you to buy the coin is the $5,000 bid and $9.95 for that month's subscription. No buyers premium of an additional 10% up to 17.5%. >>
As I said before, as a bidder, the buyer's fee will not affect my cost. If I'm a successful bidder for a $5,000 coin when there's a 15% buyer's premium, I'm still only going to pay $5,000, because my bid will be $4,348. If there's no buyer's fee and I bid $4,900 and get outbid by someone bidding $5,000, I'm out $10 with nothing to show for it except perhaps for a chip on my shoulder which will make me hesitant to bid in future auctions. In that future auction, I may have been willing to bid $5,000 for a coin, but my staying away means that the coin will sell a bidder who decided not to stay away for less money, and now you have to explain to a seller that a bidder's previous experience with your terms chased them away from his auction. It should not be hard to figure out what kind of modest buyer's fee would give you the same revenue as the monthly bidder fee.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Our attempt was to do what we thought was best for the collector and seller. . but I see your point.
I guess the majority of respondents on this site would rather pay the buyer's premium for something they actually purchase, than to pay a modest subscription fee to bid and not have to pay a buyers premium if they are successful.
<< <i>I guess the majority of respondents on this site would rather pay the buyer's premium for something they actually purchase, than to pay a modest subscription fee to bid and not have to pay a buyers premium if they are successful. >>
Liz,
John has a good explanation of the situation above. What he's basically saying is that, from the buyer's perspective, there is no buyer's premium because it's factored into the bid. If someone wants to pay $x dollars and there's a y% buyer's premium, they simply bid $b = $x * (1 - y%) to arrive at $x. It seems like the buyer's premium is a delineation the auction house makes for accounting and other purposes but buyers don't view it as an additional cost because it's built-in.
So the real comparison from the buyer's point of view is (a) paying a subscription fee vs. (b) paying nothing.
Bidders and buyers need to be wooed for any hope of consignment business.
Lance.
<< <i>It seems like the buyer's premium is delineation the auction house makes for accounting and other purposes but buyers don't view it as an additional cost to the bidder because it's built-in. >>
If that's so, why do buyers complain when auction houses raise the buyer's premium in their auctions?
<< <i>
<< <i>It seems like the buyer's premium is delineation the auction house makes for accounting and other purposes but buyers don't view it as an additional cost to the bidder because it's built-in. >>
If that's so, why do buyers complain when auction houses raise the buyer's premium in their auctions? >>
Perhaps:
(a) not everyone figures in the buyer's premium into their bid, or
(b) it's good chitchat
<< <i>You are correct, we, J J Teaparty Online Auctions, would be much better off charging a modest buyer's premium --even 1%. In this case we would make $50 instead of $9.95 on just one coin.
Our attempt was to do what we thought was best for the collector and seller. . but I see your point.
I guess the majority of respondents on this site would rather pay the buyer's premium for something they actually purchase, than to pay a modest subscription fee to bid and not have to pay a buyers premium if they are successful. >>
Liz,
I hear the frustration coming out in "the tone of your text" but something to understand is the feelings about the last part of your message.......(I bolded it above).
Many of us have been in "heated" auctions where we want to win, but someone wanted it more. That's how it goes. The sticking point that I think you are missing, from your wording, is the IF the bidder is successful, they save a ton of money. Any month that one bids and is NOT successful, it was a wasted $10.
I have been on TT for only about 4-5 years now. I have won coins there, and bid on way more than I have won. I have probably only won coins there a total of 10-12 different months. So, comparing that timeline against your proposed "value", that would be ~38-50 months ($380-$500) worth of fees, for nothing. Would it be less than what I spent in buyer's premium? Maybe. Quite likely....if I bought the expensive coins. In the last year or so, I think I have won something maybe once or twice, but only 1 month. But, I bid more than that, in other months. That would be $110 that I would be out.
That's the type of thing many of us are looking at right now.
For many of us, coins are not a business, they are a luxury and a fun hobby....that's why we buy from you (I have bought "a few" coins from you and they have been nice coins, and I have paid up for them because of that). However, the economy isn't the same as it was in '98-'99 with the dotcom going on and everyone seeming to have more money than they knew what to do with. Even if what you are offering is ultimately cheaper, the initial view of it, and the, very likely, chance that one will spend money and win nothing, is what is hitting folks.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Perhaps:
(a) not everyone figures in the buyer's premium into their bid, or
(b) it's good chitchat
Or:
(c) some people aren't happy unless they've got something to complain about.
check? Not in this lifetime. I don't know one employee at JJ Teaparty and the expect me to TRUST them?
What is the point of the background check? Can't wait for my check to clear? Then I'll give them my
American Express which has no limit and to heck with giving them anything else.
Is a background check common? Perhaps I'm out of the loop on this.
bob
Shout out to Gail! She takes care of business!
lkeigwinBidders and buyers need to be wooed for any hope of consignment business.
Lance is correct.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
I would strongly suggest that you reconsider reconsidering. Everyone is always asking for sellers to try something new, and then when someone does, no one wants to accept the change. Now that it has been spelled out, I think that you should structure the auction as you conceived it. If people see a coin that they want, they will be more than happy to shell out the $10 and go for it. It is more important that the auctions are transparent, any reserves are clearly posted, there's no shilling, the photos are high quality, the coins ship promptly, credit cards are accepted, etc.
Good luck, RYK
EAC 6024