Shipping returns to Germany

Greig

I have been following with interest the posts regarding the difficulties of shipping coins sold on Ebay to purchasers outside the USA. I have a slightly different issue. I won a coin on Ebay - substantial money (over $1000, paid for through PayPal) - and it turns out to be a polished AU (definitely not as advertised). The seller is telling me he doesn't have the funds to make a refund (!!). That's going to be a problem, unless Paypal can fix this.

My immediate concern is how to return the coin to him in such a way that there can be no doubt he got it back. FedEx and UPS will cost about $100 to ship. The USPS may be somewhat cheaper, but I have had registered mail merchandise returns to Germany "get lost" and the indemnity is only about $47. There is a USPS Global Express Service (not sure it is available in my town) that might work, as it would give me insurance for the purchase price.

But I thought I would turn to the forum for advice: how would you ship this coin back to the seller?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Zohar

1) Open a claim stating coin was not as described. Will secure your claim.
2) Ship back international/express (about $35-40) with tracking and insurance. The insurance is relatively cheap on this type of service.
3) Close the claim once you get your money back.

YQQ

well,
If you paid him with Feeypal, they will (or should ) as they do here, go into his account and take the money and hold it until the issue is settled.
am I wrong there?

Zohar, are you sure that insurance will be effective on an international shipment for a coin?
H

Zohar

Yes for express international insurance can be added relatively cheap. I mailed a coin to Taiwan express insured for $900 for $38.50.

WillieBoyd2

Buy an inexpensive airline ticket, fly to Germany, and return the coin in person.

That would really surprise the seller.

Dabigkahuna

File the SNAD with PayPal. Makes no difference if the seller doesn't have the funds. PayPal will credit you and debit the seller. That's the beauty of the "buyers protection" feature.

As far as what kind of shipping to use when you return the coin, call PayPal and have them tell you exactly what they require for your protection and the claim.


I hope it all works out. Keep us posted.

DeiGratia

Funny you should mention shipping an item back to Germany .

I just returned a taler I bought from eBay.de back to the seller as the coin was not as described.

I mailed it out first class registered mail and the tracking does (to my surprise) show it was delivered.

Just got my refund yesterday.

Here's the tracking number

RE362448905US

YQQ

Zohar, yes they do take the money for insurance..and everything seems to be fine as long as you have no claim.
BUT have you ever experienced a claim?
Normally coins or other valuables are NOT covered...

Greig

I appreciate the advice and support, folks. I will let you know how this turns out.

jt88

Use registered would be fine. No need to spend more for express unless you want to get your money back fast because Paypal will refund you once the tracking number show it deliver. Ebay might even pay for the return postage.

Greig

Well, interestingly, when I spoke with PayPal, the customer service rep told me to use FedEx or UPS, because of the lack of tracking once the package leaves the US (which was my experience before when I had a registered mail packet get lost on its way to Germany - two years ago). She said I would not be eligible for PayPal's protection unless I could show the return actually was delivered to the seller. I am probably going to drop close to $100 for the return, but given the way this seller has been acting, I do not want to risk him saying "I never got it back" without my being able to say "Yes, you did."

Package will go out Monday.

Greig

Well, here's an update and a request for some advice, folks. I sent the coin back to the seller via USPS Global Express Guaranteed - $52, with an extra $10 for insurance and described as a "collectible coin returned for refund". It left here on July 26 and arrived in Cologne on July 27. According to the USPS website, it has been in a "Clearance Delay" ever since , up to and including today (August 3)! I have called the USPS twice and asked for information as to what is going on and been told they would contact their German partner (FedEx Germany) for a report on what is holding up the coin and get back to me. As of tonight, I have heard nothing, from anybody! The item was guaranteed for delivery on July 31, but of course the USPS guarantee doesn't cover issues like customs issues. I have been keeping Ebay informed all along the way and so far they are keeping the claim open. But, if the coin isn't ever returned to the Seller, I'm fear I'm going to be stuck!!

I must say this is convincing me never to do business with anybody in Germany, not because dealers there are particularly difficult, but because of the problems with German post/customs. In the past three years, I have had three packages go missing, including two via registered mail!

Any thoughts on anything else I can do?

Thanks.

mrpotatoheadd

Not that this is any help, but the only registered mail package I ever lost was shipped to Germany. Who would have guessed that delivery to Mexico and Italy would be more dependable?

YQQ

see if you get any info through the most efficient fastest and most reasonably priced postal system in the world, The German post
if a piece of mail has any postal bar code from anywhere, they will track it. they also have notification from the USPS about the mail and they are very helpful.
How efficient and reasonable? it takes them less than 24 hours, Monday to SATURDAY, to deliver a registered letter from the northern end, any post office to the southern end, any address, door to door in Germany. and this for Euro 4 ($5). cost for international registered is Euro5,50, about $7-8.
here is a easy link to follow.

http://www.deutschepost.de/dpag?xmlFile=1016933&lang=de_en

ormandh

I have had SO MANY PROBLEMS shipping coins to other countries, in the past, that I am literally sick to my stomach. Why must the USPS allow this problem of non nonreceipt to happen in the first place. Especially with the history of mail service here in the US?!! Does it not make sense to focus on a global pact with other nations to ensure that a package sent from the US will actually make it to the desired location? I believe that it would be in the best interest to the USPS to hold the utmost requirements to secure ANY package sent from the US to at the very least make it to the required locations! Are you telling me that in today's time we cannot control the delivery of mail?!! It is sad, as a person delivering mail, that I have to prove delivery of any piece of mail which I send to any given recipient that I actually sent it. We live in the 21st century and have access to every bit of technology, but yet we can't shake the stamp? How hard is it to create a bar code or other away to track every single piece of mailing that leaves ones hands?!! Seriously! Are we living in the 21st century or what?!?

I do know one thing though. If the USPS cannot figure out how to deliver mail more efficiently, we will then be required to pay a private company to do such at a higher rate. In the end, that may be better for the sender in the long.

Greig

Well, at long last, I can report on the conclusion of this long-running dispute. I sent the coin (an 1878-B mark) back to the seller in late July. It got hung up in German customs because I hadn't identified what the coin was made from (!!?!) in the shipping papers. I provided that information and the coin was released for delivery to the seller. However, the seller refused to accept the return. Eventually the coin was returned to me and, after I gave Ebay documentation on the seller's refusal to accept the return (which took some efforts with FedEx, the shipper), I was told that I would get a refund of the purchase price and the shipping costs. I told Ebay that, if the seller wanted the coin back, I'd send it to him after he paid me the shipping costs in advance. No money yet, but it should show up in 24-48 hours. What a relief!

Sadly, the coin is rare in uncirculated and I need it for my Registry set, but this coin had been severely cleaned and polished. I doubt it is worth 5-10% of the purchase price, given its condition.

This whole experience has put me off dealing with anyone in Germany (other than well-established dealers).

Thanks to everyone for the advice I received.

lordmarcovan

Wow, that sounds like a nightmare. I am glad a resolution seems imminent.

I do a fair amount of buying and selling overseas and haven't had any real bad hassles like that, fortunately.

But I buy mostly ancient coins (less issues over cleaning and whether something is MS or not), and I usually only sell relatively cheap stuff. This no doubt has enabled me to mostly "fly under the radar" of some potentially sticky situations, I guess.

I returned a Roman coin that wouldn't slab ("authenticity unverifiable" due to surface issues), though I and everyone I showed it to had no doubt it was authentic. The Swiss dealer not only accepted the return, but graciously agreed to trade out two other pieces that filled holes in my collection. Furthermore, he put the returned coin back up for sale and it was gone within 48 hours, if I remember correctly. It was a bargain at the price. Just didn't fit my new standards, is all.