Low ball bid as a marker...... Winner!

Bankerbob56

Late last week I put a very low bid on a 1943 S Washington quarter in pcgs ms67 at Heritage. The coin was in original skin, and was part of the George's Army collection, in a newer edge-view holder. This coin price guides at pcgs for 1750. Not only did I win at less than my marker, I won at less than 50% of the referenced guide!

It is a very nice coin, and I think the previous owner was in the top 5 of the WQ registry set. Is the referenced guide way out of line? Did I simply get lucky? Who knows????

Buzzybest

You bring up a very good question about fair market prices vs. PCGS values. i.e. I have been trying to determine lately where is the best range to offer higher graded Morgans. Is 10% below the value fair,or 15%. I have seen most of the bigger dealers and auction houses online come in right at or near the PCGS listed value.

TwoSides2aCoin

Due diligence can turn a lot of money into a quarter. That's the market, not a marker.

messydesk

Look at other prices realized for 1943-S in MS67 on Heritage. The price you paid seems to be in line with the others, but is less than half the price of the one with a CAC sticker. Yours is original and doesn't have any nasty marks like some of the others do (see especially the one that sold for $253).

MikeInFL

I would be very careful when using PCGS price guides in judging the fair value of a coin -- they are intended to be more of a retail guide than an auction guide.

Getting past that, your coin does look very attractive, and if you're happy, I'm happy.

C0inCollect0r

On this sort of coin ("Top" Grade sort of coins with low populations and small markets), the PCGS price guide tends to fluctuate all over the place. I had the "pleasant" experience of purchasing a MS67 Quarter just like this a couple months ago at Heritage at what I felt was a "bargain" price (approximately 35% of PCGS Price Guide at the time) - Within about a couple weeks the PCGS Price Guide Value fell more than 50% for the coin. I'd guess you more or less paid the true market value for the coin.

BryceM

I was looking at that same quarter as a canidate for my type set. I sort of lost track of it when I blew my allowance on another coin in the SB auction. It wasn't exactly the look I wanted and I let it slide. I agree with the comments on values for this sort of thing being all over the place but I think I could have been happy with it at the same price. Congrats.

LindeDad

Lower than price guide sales at major auctions usually bring about changes in the price guide.

19Lyds

<< <i>I would be very careful when using PCGS price guides in judging the fair value of a coin -- they are intended to be more of a retail guide than an auction guide.

Getting past that, your coin does look very attractive, and if you're happy, I'm happy. >>

Some of the values are "Registy Prices Paid" and have nothing to do with Retail Value.

Cases in point:



The top one I cannot seem to give away and the next one I picked up on Teletrade for $12.87.

Granted, they are Moderns for a dead set but the entire point is that PCGS Price Guide Values are relative. Relative to when they get around to changing them.
A buyer should NEVER use that guide unless they have the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff as some of the prices are Wheat, while others are chaff.

Instead, buyers should research price histories on the venue the coin is being sold on. That research will tell you what the buyers for THAT venue are willing to pay. Those buyers could very well NOT be on another venue.

Something else to consider, if Coin A was bought by Buyer A for a somewhat High price, you can bet your paycheck that Buyer A won't be back again simply because Buyer A NOW has what s/he came for. Sustainable prices need Buyer(s) B through Z.

Nickcap

First Congrats on your coin. As long as your Happy.

One thing I noticed in the last Heritage Auction, Go look the prices realized. Find coins that had similar years, grades, and mint. The one that usually went the highest is the one that was auctioned first. Especially on sunday.

Case in point. I bought a 1896-O AU58 CAC Morgan in a PCGS Holder. The coin in front of it was an 1896-O AU58 Morgan (No CAC) the first coin sold for $690. My coin, the very next lot I got in for over $100 less. A few of the others that day were the same way. The first one sold way higher than the others. Luckily I was buying the 2nd or 3rd of a particular coin that day.

1896-O No CAC

1896-O CAC

BryceM

<< <i>First Congrats on your coin. As long as your Happy.

One thing I noticed in the last Heritage Auction, Go look the prices realized. Find coins that had similar years, grades, and mint. The one that usually went the highest is the one that was auctioned first. Especially on sunday.

Case in point. I bought a 1896-O AU58 CAC Morgan in a PCGS Holder. The coin in front of it was an 1896-O AU58 Morgan (No CAC) the first coin sold for $690. My coin, the very next lot I got in for over $100 less. A few of the others that day were the same way. The first one sold way higher than the others. Luckily I was buying the 2nd or 3rd of a particular coin that day.

1896-O No CAC

1896-O CAC >>



Mmmmmmmm. I'd be careful with that line of reasoning. That might be true once in a while, but I'd guess the difference in price usually has more to do with actual differences in quality than order of bidding.

Bankerbob56

Everyone makes a lot of good points in these reponses. I am waiting for the hammer to drop in the PCGS price guide again (on Washies) just like it did a few weeks ago! The good news for me in this instance is that even if the "value" falls 50 percent, I won't be hurt on this coin.

CaptHenway

What is anything worth? Ten years ago I was seriously collecting Honduras, and was underbidder, at $4,000, on an unlisted 25 Centavo. The third bidder dropped out at $1200.

I no longer collect Honduras. When the winner dies, what is that coin worth?

InternetJunky

<< <i>I would be very careful when using PCGS price guides in judging the fair value of a coin -- they are intended to be more of a retail guide than an auction guide.

Getting past that, your coin does look very attractive, and if you're happy, I'm happy. >>





When I first starting collecting I was buying coins thinking they could be resold at PCGS price guide value. That was an expensive mistake. I just thought I was getting great deals when I was buying them at less then guide prices.

wondercoin

Price you paid was OK, but quality of coin you got for the good price was just average. In fact, the coin failed to even hit the reserve when it was offered a couple months back as part of the collection. Meanwhile, a nice 43-S MS67 fetched more than $2,000 in last 90 days at Heritage.

And, of course, that $2,000 specimen was awarded the CAC sticker which is very important to buyers these days as well.

So, in short, you did just fine for the quality of coin you purchased for the grade.

And, I do think the Price Guide on this coin in MS67 should be about 10%-15% less than current levels and I will mention it to the Price Guide editor the next time we discuss Washington quarters.

That said ... offer my a premium quality PCGS-MS67 43-S quarter at $2,000 sight-seen and I will gobble it up if I like it.

Wondercoin

TomB

I have not seen the coin in-hand, but the images make me think it is an MS66 that was overgraded. The reason I write this is because I think the eye appeal is well short of MS67 territory given the several brown spots on the obverse and larger spot on the obverse rim. Of course, the coin might have superb eye appeal in-hand, which would then mean you likely were fortunate that it imaged the way it did. Therefore, I think the price paid was at least partially a reflection of internet bidders not bidding as aggressively as one might hope.

Bankerbob56

<< <i>Price you paid was OK, but quality of coin you got for the good price was just average. In fact, the coin failed to even hit the reserve when it was offered a couple months back as part of the collection. Meanwhile, a nice 43-S MS67 fetched more than $2,000 in last 90 days at Heritage.

And, of course, that $2,000 specimen was awarded the CAC sticker which is very important to buyers these days as well.

So, in short, you did just fine for the quality of coin you purchased for the grade.

And, I do think the Price Guide on this coin in MS67 should be about 10%-15% less than current levels and I will mention it to the Price Guide editor the next time we discuss Washington quarters.

That said ... offer my a premium quality PCGS-MS67 43-S quarter at $2,000 sight-seen and I will gobble it up if I like it.

Wondercoin >>



Mitch I agree with you on all points. The coin is average for the grade, and the 43S that went for 2k is indeed nicer. Your willingness to "gobble" any coin which you like is a reflection of many factors, and may not indicate a "fair value" to the rest of us.

It would be interesting to know what the reserve was in the earlier auction..........

CAC should consider placing a Red sticker on coins submitted that in their opinion are overgraded! This would address Tom B's indication that perhaps this coin is overgraded. It's amazing to me how people believe they can grade coins, in a slab, based on an internet picture, to such a fine degree! The difference between a 6 and a 7 coin is minutia.

panther

I think you really have to look at the coin and not the holder as so many have said.

I have at least 3 MS-67 Washington Quarters that have a CAC sticker that would not grade an MS-67 if I were to crack them and re-submitted them for a new grade.

I took Me awhile to learn that if I pay bottom dollar for a coin at auction, there is a reason for it.

The experts like WonderCoins , ManOfCoins and others, most likely saw it in Hand and passed on it.

I also don’t think that the price guide should go down based on a coin that is over graded, and sells for 50% of listed price.

Bankerbob56

<< <i>I think you really have to look at the coin and not the holder as so many have said.

I have at least 3 MS-67 Washington Quarters that have a CAC sticker that would not grade an MS-67 if I were to crack them and re-submitted them for a new grade.

I took Me awhile to learn that if I pay bottom dollar for a coin at auction, there is a reason for it.

The experts like WonderCoins , ManOfCoins and others, most likely saw it in Hand and passed on it.

I also don’t think that the price guide should go down based on a coin that is over graded, and sells for 50% of listed price. >>



I did look at the coin, not sure it's "overgraded" until I get it in hand..... as I indicated I simply lowballed a bid as a marker. If it was nicer or a high end 67 I would have put a strong bid on the coin. I honestly did not expect to win this auction...... As Mitch indicated, an earlier auction saw an example of this coin go for 2k, but it was obviously nicer. This coin is an average, original skinned example. If good ol' Craig offers me a monster with nice color I would probably spring for it. Now, I will admit that this one may not have the eye appeal I usually go for, but what can I say?

Dale, did you change your Registry Set of quarters to the Dale W Moore collection??

wondercoin

There is certainly little wrong with paying the price the OP did for this coin IMHO .... even if it is as a hole filler for the time being (as the price was right).

Just recently, in my MS clad quarter set, I added a super tough MS67 piece to my collection that is only "so-so" and certainly one that could be improved laterally for the grade if I ever get the chance. I had been looking for more than a decade to fill that hole so I "settled" on a coin for the time being. And here is the possible silver lining with this approach .... when I get around to submitting my entire clad quarter set for review with PCGS, a coin like this "so-so" MS67 one, might help some of the other MS67s in my set achieve an MS67+ upgrade when viewed along side each other.

Wondercoin

panther

Is the referenced guide way out of line? Did I simply get lucky? Who knows????

I wasn’t trying to offend You and the deal You got on the quarter. In your post You asked these questions.

And yes , that is the Name of My set.