Topps, it's time for Jackie Robinson to get the Mickey Mantle treatment
TNP777
Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭
I posted this over on FCB, but I'm sure most here don't travel over there.
My wife found a yard sale on Craigslist the other day that advertised 2010 and 2011 factory sets, so I ran by and picked them up for $15 each. Not a steal by any means, but definitely a deal. So I'm sitting down and sorting them, and I run across the obligatory Mickey Mantle card (including a red parallel in the value pack). It reminded me that starting in 1997, Topps "retired" card number 7 in Mantle's honor, largely in part to his helping establish the company as top dog in the baseball card business. Then in 2006, Topps inked a 10-year exclusivity agreement with the Mantle estate. As most know, every base Topps set since then has given us a new Mantle pose on card number 7. All fine and good.
I believe it is past time for Topps to do the same with card number 42. With Robinson now appearing regularly across all products, there is no reason he shouldn't be similarly honored. Baseball has retired Jackie's number; Topps needs to do likewise.
Thoughts? Opinions?
My wife found a yard sale on Craigslist the other day that advertised 2010 and 2011 factory sets, so I ran by and picked them up for $15 each. Not a steal by any means, but definitely a deal. So I'm sitting down and sorting them, and I run across the obligatory Mickey Mantle card (including a red parallel in the value pack). It reminded me that starting in 1997, Topps "retired" card number 7 in Mantle's honor, largely in part to his helping establish the company as top dog in the baseball card business. Then in 2006, Topps inked a 10-year exclusivity agreement with the Mantle estate. As most know, every base Topps set since then has given us a new Mantle pose on card number 7. All fine and good.
I believe it is past time for Topps to do the same with card number 42. With Robinson now appearing regularly across all products, there is no reason he shouldn't be similarly honored. Baseball has retired Jackie's number; Topps needs to do likewise.
Thoughts? Opinions?
0
Comments
<< <i>I don't collect newer product per say, but I would fully support this. It's a great idea! >>
+1
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't collect newer product per say, but I would fully support this. It's a great idea! >>
+1 >>
-Heir Heir
I think that is a great idea for Topps to honor Jackie. They need to hire you in their marketing department!!!
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Honestly I think the thing seemed kind of dumb from the get go. I buy the modern base Topps for the modern players, not a Mantle with high gloss finish.
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Teams retire way too many jersey numbers and are getting too statue happy as well.
I didn't agree with selig making every team retire #42 and making it mandatory for everyone to wear it on April 15.
The problem is when do you stop?
What about retire #3 for Ruth?
Why not make it a rule every team has to wear #4 in honor of Gehrig on July 4?
Or just have #4 retired throughout MLB.
If #99 is retired throughout the NHL why hasn't Stern retired #23 from the entire NBA?
I dont agree with any of those but I think it should be up to the team to retire any jersey they wish. Then it would be retired from that team, not the entire league. The only rule I wish is that player should have played with that team for at least 10 years.
<< <i>Gotta do #21 too. And while we're at #9 because Ted Williams served his country in WWII. So did Bob Feller. And Christy Mathewson's life was cut short because of his service in WWI. And Hank Greenberg endured prejudices of being a Jewish ballpayer.
Honestly I think the thing seemed kind of dumb from the get go. I buy the modern base Topps for the modern players, not a Mantle with high gloss finish. >>
+1.
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<< <i>I didn't agree with selig making every team retire #42 and making it mandatory for everyone to wear it on April 15.
The problem is when do you stop?
What about retire #3 for Ruth?
Why not make it a rule every team has to wear #4 in honor of Gehrig on July 4?
>>
Totally agree with this.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
plus, it wasn't like The Mick was the #7 CARD every year...
<< <i>Gotta do #21 too. And while we're at #9 because Ted Williams served his country in WWII. So did Bob Feller. And Christy Mathewson's life was cut short because of his service in WWI. And Hank Greenberg endured prejudices of being a Jewish ballpayer.
Honestly I think the thing seemed kind of dumb from the get go. I buy the modern base Topps for the modern players, not a Mantle with high gloss finish. >>
+1
One way to keep the concept but do it differently would be to honor a different player each year across their products.
Robert
<< <i>So you guys are saying you wouldnt and don't actually buy their product but you would like them to change? I'm sure Topps will get right on that. I would like a change too, anyone but Mantle... Aaron? I commit myself to purchase 5 packs of cards if this change happens, so I am a customer! >>
better
I'd like to see a continuation of the inserts they did in the 90's for Ryan, Aaron, Clemente and Mantle. A much better idea IMO than most ofl the other "tribute" inserts they have done.
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even the most awestruck Mantle fan would have to agree that Mick could never do that.
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<< <i>I understand the thought process that if another player is similarly honored we're running the risk of Pandora's Box. But c'mon now, we're not talking about just anybody - we're talking about the man that broke the flippin' color barrier here. We all know the story, no need to belabor it. If baseball saw fit to retire Robinson's number, then why not Topps? If Topps saw fit to honor a man who drank and caroused his way through his career, then why not the man who endured abuse and hatred like no other player in the history of the game? >>
Didn't Doby come first?, I thought Jackie was just the first really good black player? ...I agree with this part why not the man who endured abuse and hatred like no other player in the history of the game?
MLB and many other people and organizations have honored Mr. Robinson for being the person to break the color barrier.
The Topps company is simply recognizing the most popular player ever as far as value on their product. Telling them to honor Jackie Robinson in the same way is a waste of time.
I also think that some of the praise that is heaped on Jackie Robinson could be shared with Larry Doby, the first black to play in the American League. I am sure he was harassed as well.
If you choose to speak up for Jackie, that's fine. Do you have to then denigrate Mantle?
Joe
<< <i>If you choose to speak up for Jackie, that's fine. Do you have to then denigrate Mantle?
Joe >>
yes
next question?
edit: While my comment may have been denigrating, I don't see it as being anything less than factual. It is well documented that Mantle was a hardcore drinker during his playing career, and a hardcore adulterer/womanizer as well.
An excerpt from Mantle's Wikipedia entry:
<< <i>Well before he finally sought treatment for alcoholism, Mantle admitted his hard living had hurt both his playing and his family. His rationale was that the men in his family had all died young, so he expected to die young as well. His father had died of Hodgkin's disease at age 40 in 1952, and his grandfather had also died young of the same disease. "I'm not gonna be cheated," he would say. Mantle did not know at the time that most of the men in his family had inhaled lead and zinc dust in the mines, which contribute to Hodgkins' and other cancers. As the years passed, and he had outlived all the men in his family by several years, he frequently used a line popularized by football legend Bobby Layne, a Dallas neighbor and friend of Mantle's who also died in part due to alcohol abuse: "If I'd known I was gonna live this long, I'd have taken a lot better care of myself."
Mantle's wife and sons all completed treatment for alcoholism, and told him he needed to do the same. He checked into the Betty Ford Clinic on January 7, 1994, after being told by a doctor that his liver "looked like a doorstop" and was so badly damaged that "your next drink could be your last." Also helping Mantle to make the decision to go to the Betty Ford Clinic was sportscaster Pat Summerall, who had played for the New York Giants football team while they played at Yankee Stadium, by then a recovering alcoholic and a member of the same Dallas-area country club as Mantle; Summerall himself had been treated at the clinic in 1992.
Shortly after Mantle completed treatment, his son Billy died on March 12, 1994, at age 36 of heart problems brought on by years of substance abuse. Despite the fears of those who knew him that this tragedy would send him back to drinking, he remained sober. Mickey Jr. later died of liver cancer on December 20, 2000, at age 47. Danny later battled prostate cancer.
Mantle spoke with great remorse of his drinking in a 1994 Sports Illustrated cover story. He said that he was telling the same old stories, and realizing how many of them involved himself and others being drunk – including at least one drunk-driving accident – he decided they were not funny anymore. He admitted he had often been cruel and hurtful to family, friends, and fans because of his alcoholism, and sought to make amends. He became a born-again Christian because of his former teammate Bobby Richardson, an ordained Baptist minister who shared his faith with him. After the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, Mantle joined with fellow Oklahoman and Yankee Bobby Murcer to raise money for the victims.
Mantle received a liver transplant at Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas, on June 8, 1995. His liver was severely damaged by alcohol-induced cirrhosis, as well as hepatitis C. Prior to the operation, doctors also discovered he had inoperable liver cancer known as an undifferentiated hepatocellular carcinoma, further facilitating the need for a transplant.[37][38] In July, he had recovered enough to deliver a press conference at Baylor, and noted that many fans had looked to him as a role model. "This is a role model: Don't be like me," a frail Mantle said. He also established the Mickey Mantle Foundation to raise awareness for organ donations. Soon, he was back in the hospital, where it was found that his cancer was rapidly spreading throughout his body. >>
By the way, I completely understand why years ago Topps made the choice to honor Mantle in this fashion. His 1952 card will be forever synonymous with Topps, and has in great part solidified their status as the number one choice in baseball cards.
<< <i>Didn't Doby come first? >>
no - Robinson debuted April 15, 1947. Doby debuted July 5, 1947.
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To be honest, no direction, but...
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I thought it was a nice gesture when Topps paid tribute to a guy that brought so much business to them.
Doing the same for Jackie would be a marketing gimmick. Jackie is better than a marketing gimmick.
<< <i>Mantle is the king of baseball cards. It makes sense.
Doing the same for Jackie would be a marketing gimmick. Jackie is better than a marketing gimmick. >>
Retiring card #7 during the middle of a dying hobby was no more than a marketing gimmick.
Mantle was a crude but revered godlike figure while Jackie is an icon with no perceived human flaws. Why immortalize an immoral flawed man instead of an icon of not only baseball, but a generation?
Some people have told me they don't believe he should even be in the HOF based on his numbers but I disagree & think he belongs and happy he's in. I was listening to sports radio right at the start of baseball season when the A's and Mariners were playing overseas and the host interviewed Selig and Bud said he is seriously considering retiring #10 throughout baseball in honor of Masanori Murakami before he leaves office.
In the book "We would have played for nothing" Whitey Ford says; "We probably drank a little more than we should have, but I don't ever think it affected our playing."
He played many games during his career with both legs wrapped from ankle to hip because of injuries. He still was the single most dominant American League player. From 1952 to 1964 he was first in Offensive W.A.R. ten times, second once and third once. That's being the best for almost 13 straight seasons. If this is a career affected by bad behavior, how much better could he have been? Would you be happy with the MVP every year?
He (like many other professional athletes) was probably unfaithful to his wife. NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.
Later in life he admitted to his addiction and apologized to his fans. He suffered from an illness that harmed him quite severely and people like TNP777 use it to assassinate him.
You are still incorrect. Read something besides Wikipedia and get the facts straight.
Joe
<< <i>Mantle was an alcoholic and most of the damage he did to his liver was post playing days.
In the book "We would have played for nothing" Whitey Ford says; "We probably drank a little more than we should have, but I don't ever think it affected our playing."
He played many games during his career with both legs wrapped from ankle to hip because of injuries. He still was the single most dominant American League player. From 1952 to 1964 he was first in Offensive W.A.R. ten times, second once and third once. That's being the best for almost 13 straight seasons. If this is a career affected by bad behavior, how much better could he have been? Would you be happy with the MVP every year?
He (like many other professional athletes) was probably unfaithful to his wife. NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.
Later in life he admitted to his addiction and apologized to his fans. He suffered from an illness that harmed him quite severely and people like TNP777 use it to assassinate him.
You are still incorrect. Read something besides Wikipedia and get the facts straight.
Joe >>
Assassinate? Please. Joe, let's agree to disagree. It's plain to see that you are a big Mantle fan, and that's fine. My opinion: the man was far from a saint, and there are plenty of other resources besides Wikipedia that aren't afraid to be objective and look past the worshipful treatment he (and many others) of the era received from the journalists and fans (then and now). He wasn't "probably" unfaithful to his wife. He was - that's not disputable. Whitey Ford's assertion that "we probably drank a little more than we should have" is laughable. Don't get me wrong, that kind of drinking wasn't exclusive to Mantle and his pals - it was all over baseball. The athletes of that day should be thankful that TMZ and the interwebs weren't around to look the other way at their escapades.
I get it - Topps owes much of what they were then and are now to Mickey Mantle, or at least his likeness. As a company, they will be forever tied to the iconic #311. Good for them, good for Mantle, good for his fans. Jackie Robinson's legacy probably didn't really affect Topps one way or another. However, the legacy he left on the history of the game for an entire race cannot be denied, and he did it under incredible pressure. Sure, he may not have been the ballplayer Mantle was, but who's to say how he would have performed had he not endured the opposition he did? Maybe no different, maybe better, maybe even worse. Sometimes incredible pressure and difficult circumstances bring out a man's true character - be it good or bad.
And if Larry Doby had been the first, or Joe Black, or Roy Campanella, or whoever - I'd be banging the drum for that man right now. Topps opened the door for this marketing angle back in 1997. In 2012, I believe it's time for Topps to open it again for Robinson.
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Whitey's quote is only laughable if you have a closed mind. In this particular story he speaks at length about his own drinking as well as Mickey's and Billy Martins and a few other American League players he played with. What do you think they had a keg in the training room that they guzzled from between innings?
I have read biographies on many of the baseball HOFers and will say again that Mantle's drinking seldom, if ever affected his performance. All-Star games were a different story, and of course there was the famous home run he hit while hung over. He had just come off the disabled list and didn't think he would be in the game. In every book I have read Mickey had a great respect for the game and played hurt, often saying it was because he didn't want to disappoint any fan who might have come to the game just to see him play.
I am also quite familiar with Jackie Robinson's career and while he was a great ballplayer, he wasn't the only black athlete to suffer racial slurs.
Both of these players have been honored and neither were perfect. I just get tired of some of the negativity and criticism of players, especially those that have tried to make amends for their mistakes. If Topps decides to honor Robinson that's fine with me, but they are a business that PROBABLY bases most of their decisions on revenue.
Joe
As for Robinson--he excelled on the playing field despite being anything but coddled. I'm not sure who, if anybody, is claiming that Jackie was any sort of saint, but to perform as well he did under the pressure that he was under is far and away one of the great athletic achievements in the history of the game.
I don't know if I necessarily agree with the number 42 being retired by every team in baseball, for no better reason than it just seems wrong to for the commissioner to force teams to retire the number of an opposing player--especially when the commissioner is a spineless car salesman such as Bud Selig, who has managed to run the game into the ground by not forcing players or owners to do anything that might put the integrity of the game ahead of their own self interest. But I digress.
Personally, I think that Topps should hereafter devote card number 32 to the late Houston Colt .45's pitcher Jim Umbricht. Or maybe card number 12 for Tampa Bay Devil Rays great Wade Boggs. Or number 26 for former Angels owner Gene Autry. Or perhaps card number 23 for Tiger outfielder Kirk Gib--I mean, Willie Horton.
<< <i>regretably, this thread has strained my hippocampus and now the Bob Seger tune won't go away.
I am not sure exactly what that means but
I liked the OP's first post but for him to go off topic and start blasting Mantle isn't fair.
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