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PCGS 1967 SMS "Dot Head" Kennedy on Teletrade Tonight

braddickbraddick Posts: 24,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
These certainly don't come around often and although their popularity has slightly died down over the last few years, they're still a cool coin to stumble upon.
DCAM 1967 SMS Kennedy Half Dollar

peacockcoins

Comments

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this "dot", it's considered a positive attribute?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this "dot", it's considered a positive attribute?

    more commonly known as a "Birthmark" Kennedy Half-Dollar they were more-or-less discovered and popularized by Russ several years ago and he amassed a small horde of 20+ coins the last i knew. the anamoly is from a flaw of some sort in the frost and is unique to a single 1967 obverse die which means there are almost certainly less than 100 coins where it's discernible. i think Russ lobbied PCGS to have them attribute it as "Birthmark" but met no success.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Russ researched this variety extensively (unless I'm mistaken, he also coined the term) along with MadMarty. I would hope they could contribute additional info if they happen upon this thread.
    I was actively searching for this type a few years ago and was fortunate to find three (two were in the old ANACS white slabs).

    They are fresh coins off of a single, new die and the 'dot', so to speak, quickly disappeared. I've only seen it take place on DCAM specimens.
    They didn't carry a premium, from what I remember, until it became more widely known- and even then, as the DCAM is already a pricey coin, the premium wasn't hugh.

    It was a fun chase! It's always enjoyable to look for something that can be easily spotted (pun intended). Kind of like the "Super Bird" variety of proof Washington quarters today.

    peacockcoins

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,876 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Yes!
    That's it. Birthmark" die is the correct term.
    Here is an example of many threads on the topic (search under birthmark)

    peacockcoins

  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,432 ✭✭✭
    i wonder if russ still has all of his?
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sold for $625.
    I think the price has softened a bit on these.

    peacockcoins

  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow, I learned sumthing today

    Steve
    Promote the Hobby
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sold for $625.
    I think the price has softened a bit on these. >>

    Of course. Without the proper promotion it's just another 67DCAM Kennedy. This is also a prime example of one of the "mini-markets" which was created by the forums. Certainly had this sale occured back when the dot heads were being discussed, the price would have been somewhat higher.

    BTW, had I the funds, I'd have participated in the bidding on this one. Who knows, maybe it'll make the CPG? It's certainly no different than many of the other "die state" varieties in that publication and considerably scarcer!
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
    They were featured on the USS Forum 'Welcome Aboard' CU cruise ship

    image
    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,750 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It should be noted that the most notable thing about the die is that it's one of the finest which struck cameos that year.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    That's a coin I don't own and should. That obv die made some great looking cameos early in its life. The marker is obvious on the best examples.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 1967 Dot Head of Birthmark SMS Kennedy is one of the half dollars in the 1950-1970 Cameo Proof and SMS series that I have never been able to find during the past 10 or so years that I have been hunting for them raw in OGP or aftermarket holders.

    To date I have stumbled across, found and acquired, among others, Cameo examples of all 14 Cameo Franklins, plus a possible Cameo 1961 DDR Big One half, plus a 1956 Type 1 half with a Cameo reverse and brilliant obverse, plus the seven Cameo silver Kennedies from 1964 through 1970, plus a Cameo 1964 AH Kennedy, plus two Cameo 1966 SMS Kennedies that are DDO, plus a 1951 Cameo Tumor variety quarter, plus a 1967 SMS DDO quarter, plus four die clashed 1965 SMS Dimes, plus a 1951 DDO cent, plus 1970 S DDO proof cents, plus a 1951 DDR satin half dollar.

    Lots of nice coins have been found, but never a 1967 Dot Head SMS Kennedy, nor a 1952 Superbird quarter.

    If I keep hunting it will likely happen, but it is IRRITATING that I have not found the Dot Head half and Superbird quarter yet.

    I mean, come on, don't I deserve IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATIONimage
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Yes, as do I. image
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • ModCrewmanModCrewman Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kevin - Are you serious that you've never found a Superbird? I've easily picked 6-7 of them in the past 2 years...and have left some in the store because the set price was out of line.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it is IRRITATING that I have not found the Dot Head half

    Kevin, you shouldn't be surprised that you haven't found one yet nor should you expect to find one. all you need to do is to calculate how many Deep Cameo and Cameo coins could be expected to have been struck by that one die. i suppose if Russ still tracks the Variety he could tell us how many unique coins he's seen. then the math is easy.

    i have managed to find coins and medals which have absolute rarity lower than this coin(some with fewer than 20 known to exist) so anything can happen. the odds just tend to be against finding one in an intact set, but i suggest you continue the search and maybe even increase the effort.
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    It is a single obverse die. My recollection of Rick's work regarding the life of one of these dies suggests they can produce approximately 50 deep cameo coins, with the earliest being the best contrasted. Assuming Russ hoarded away 20 or so, and assuming attrition caused some percentage to vanish, I'd say there are probably 20 more extant. Of course, that's a very subjective estimate.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,386 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It is a single obverse die. My recollection of Rick's work regarding the life of one of these dies suggests they can produce approximately 50 deep cameo coins, with the earliest being the best contrasted. Assuming Russ hoarded away 20 or so, and assuming attrition caused some percentage to vanish, I'd say there are probably 20 more extant. Of course, that's a very subjective estimate. >>



    I've been hoarding these as well. I think I have about 5 or 6 tucked away - cams and dcams ..... waiting for the day they hit the Cherrypickers guide.

    If there were 50 dcams and another 50 cams, that doesn't leave very many left to cherrypick.

    I also was watching the Teletrade auction, but forgot to enter a bid. I would have paid stronger money that what it went for.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Modcrewman: For some reason the Superbird quarter has eluded me. Maybe its wings got tired/worn out and it never completed the flight from Philly to California.

    Keets: I am not surprised that I have not found one and I do not expect to (at least not for many years since my luck may have been all used up when I found the 1961 DDR half). However, it is still IRRITATING that I have not found one. You are correct in stating that I should put in more effort. The past two or so years I have really cut back on the time and money devote to the hobby. Hobby life is cyclical and I expect that I will pick up the pace eventually.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,750 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It is a single obverse die. My recollection of Rick's work regarding the life of one of these dies suggests they can produce approximately 50 deep cameo coins, with the earliest being the best contrasted. Assuming Russ hoarded away 20 or so, and assuming attrition caused some percentage to vanish, I'd say there are probably 20 more extant. Of course, that's a very subjective estimate. >>



    These were shipped by zip code in those days so distribution will not be equal nation wide.

    It used to be possible to chase things down by zip code but I doubt it works very well any
    longer.
    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm thinking that a mention of the variety on the label would help the prices realized...too bad it's not acknowledged as such yet.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,876 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It is a single obverse die. My recollection of Rick's work regarding the life of one of these dies suggests they can produce approximately 50 deep cameo coins, with the earliest being the best contrasted. Assuming Russ hoarded away 20 or so, and assuming attrition caused some percentage to vanish, I'd say there are probably 20 more extant. Of course, that's a very subjective estimate. >>



    Here's two more!

    Birthmark Die PCGS 1967 SMS66 DCAM


    Birthmark Die PCGS 1967 SMS67 DCAM

    peacockcoins

  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Wow, Sego has a couple. The 66 Dcam has strong contrast.
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know... I'm tempted. . .
    ($450. seems like an excellent price.)

    peacockcoins

  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    I know all the ones I found are in the grubby little hands of Russ. At one time he had a crapload of them (I don't know if he still does). He was pushing hard to get PCGS to attribute them and add them to the registry so he could (Buy dotheads... ??? ... profit)!!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • giorgio11giorgio11 Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 1967 SMS 67DCAM in our Registry Set is a Birthmark Die example for those who want to take a look. Todd took a nice shot of it for us a couple of years ago. It's PCGS #96847 if you want to search and go directly to it, nestled down among the proof coins in the second half. Enjoy!

    VDB Coins Registry Set

    Best Regards,

    George
    VDBCoins.com Our Registry Sets Many successful BSTs; pls ask.
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    link
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • rooksmithrooksmith Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭✭
    Birthmark? Dot? or Bullet Hole?
    image
    image
    “When you don't know what you're talking about, it's hard to know when you're finished.” - Tommy Smothers

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