My Theory on PM's (Silver)
JCB1983
Posts: 143
I'm an economics student at U of Maryland and a wannabe PM junkie. The more that I study bullion speculation, the more that it becomes evident that Central Banks are the real heavy hitters. They are the ones influencing PM Prices. They bought thousands of tons of gold last year and are pretty much sitting on it.
Silver on the other hand is a different story. The game is going on and they are an active participant. Central Banks are clearly buying on the dips and then getting out early. For instance Silver is currently around 27 per oz. I predict that prices will get no lower than 25 before central banks make a major purchase. When they make a major purchase they have enough influence that they effect supply. Supply goes down and silver prices spike. So prices begin to rise until they reach the point where the influence runs out. This is when they dump. They will not wait for silver prices to get 60+ because they won't get there. As soon as central banks sell they flood the market, thus bringing prices down. So it is a repeating cycle that is happening over and over. Fluctuation between prices of 20-s - 30's.
So time and time again Central Banks are making Billions of dollars per transaction. Why would they stop?
In my opinion the key is to follow their patterns. Wait until they sell, give it some time.. let silver get to the mid 20's-low 30's and then stock up. Don't get greedy and wait for the low 20's because if they make a major purchase your out of the game. Likewise sell in the mid 30's and before the central banks do. If they dump, you have to wait an entire cycle.
With this being said I don't see silver prices going above 40 per oz unless the purchases become larger and larger.
Just a theory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykv5Uae2aiw
Silver on the other hand is a different story. The game is going on and they are an active participant. Central Banks are clearly buying on the dips and then getting out early. For instance Silver is currently around 27 per oz. I predict that prices will get no lower than 25 before central banks make a major purchase. When they make a major purchase they have enough influence that they effect supply. Supply goes down and silver prices spike. So prices begin to rise until they reach the point where the influence runs out. This is when they dump. They will not wait for silver prices to get 60+ because they won't get there. As soon as central banks sell they flood the market, thus bringing prices down. So it is a repeating cycle that is happening over and over. Fluctuation between prices of 20-s - 30's.
So time and time again Central Banks are making Billions of dollars per transaction. Why would they stop?
In my opinion the key is to follow their patterns. Wait until they sell, give it some time.. let silver get to the mid 20's-low 30's and then stock up. Don't get greedy and wait for the low 20's because if they make a major purchase your out of the game. Likewise sell in the mid 30's and before the central banks do. If they dump, you have to wait an entire cycle.
With this being said I don't see silver prices going above 40 per oz unless the purchases become larger and larger.
Just a theory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykv5Uae2aiw0
Comments
Asian buyers appear to jump on each opportunity at lower prices and the manipulators will eventually get caught with their pants down. When they do, sky's the limit. Keep stackin'.
GATA.org
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I give you a grade of D on your thesis. Why? What supporting evidence do you provide of Central Bank influence? Why would Central Banks have any need or desire to manage silver prices? What is their endgame? >>
Plenty of evidence of FED intervention in numerous markets. Their Federal Open Market Committee, which directly influences supply and demand of US Treasuries, also directs operations undertaken by the Federal Reserve System in foreign exchange markets. Endgame: herd all the sheep into the US Treasury (Government Debt) corral by creating risk/losses in other asset classes. The one exception is US equities which the FED props up to give the illusion of a strong economy. They know that when most people see that green arrow next to the S&P close on the TV screen at the end of the day that the population will sleep better at night and continue to have faith in their leaders.
Give any organization control of the money supply and interest rates and you give them the ability to overtly interfere with market prices. To assume they will not use their powers covertly (expecially since they represent private banking interests) is a bit naive. Private banks profit heavily from gold and silver price manipulation. It is their take for doing the deeds of the FED which is really nothing more than their own agent. Make no mistake, the FED serves two masters - (1) the banking industry that legally owns the FED and profits from the FED's debt creating actions and (2) those charged with oversight that allow them to continue their shenanigans.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
So much speculation, so little fact.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Please show me trade confirmations that the FED or ECB or JGB bought silver and then sold it thus generating profit.
So much speculation, so little fact. >>
They haven't. If they had it would be perfectly legal and good business on their part. The accusation is that the FED does it covertly in the paper futures market (in violation of commodity trading regulations), using their agents who are in reality their masters. Most people don't realize that the FED is literally and legally owned by the largest banks. They are nothing more than a contracted service that has, by a 1913 law they railroaded through congress, taken control of our economy, the value of our dollar, and the public debt we owe. Our economy has tanked, the value of our dollar has drastically decreased since 1913 and the public debt we owe has dramatically increased. Their endgame is quite obvious - transfer the wealth from us to them, after all they are a private business and the goal of any private business is to have you give them your money.
We are literally at the mercy of the large banks that own the FED. These banks, along with the corrupt national leaders they have bankrolled, have made all of us eternal slaves to public debt.
Few can dispute the integrity and insider knowledge of David Walker, former US comptroller who recently had this to say: "The fate of our economy, our currency, and ultimately our way of life, are all predicated upon the Fed’s ability to maintain price stability in the bond market, to keep rates artificially low, indefinitely."
Loss of confidence in the bond market will cause interest rates to skyrocket, ending any chance of US economic survival. The FED knows this and that their own survival revolves around the successful continuation of the bond market ponzi scheme. To keep the bond market working the FED has no choice but to intervene in other markets.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I would offer a C with a superscript "g" as in gift. Not well researched. As a hypothesis, it could stand as an inquisitive postulation but it certainly would need to be fleshed out so the reader had confidence that the author was writing something other than an opinion. The C would be for encouragement...encouragement to keep working on it.
You seriously believe this?
After centuries of banking, WE still have more money than THEM. So much for their business model.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Their endgame is quite obvious - transfer the wealth from us to them
You seriously believe this?
After centuries of banking, WE still have more money than THEM. So much for their business model. >>
As I said earlier the ultimate goal of any private business is to have you give them your money. The large bank's business model is to continuing siphoning from the public via continuous public debt. To take it all at once would end any of their hopes for endless profiting of human effort.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
http://isharesblog.com/blog/2011/04/28/don’t-mistake-your-silver-for-gold-–-central-banks-don’t/
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26706.html
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
"There will only be one safehaven and that is US Treasuries." There's only one organization with that kind of power. The ultimate bubble that will kill the economy will be the bond bubble.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
a silver scheme. They leave that dirty work to the big banks.
CB's are heavy players in gold bullion. But I seriously doubt they "bought thousands of tons of gold last year and are pretty much sitting on it." Maybe CB's in aggregate bought
600-1,000 tonnes last year. But along with China's unreported buying goes the unreported selling/leasing of gold held by USA, England, Germany, IMF, EU nations,
Libya (confiscation), etc. The major nations are trying to keep the price of gold down. If they can control paper gold, then they can pretty much control paper silver as well. Thing is,
this scheme works as long as they don't have to settle with physical silver every month that will drawdown inventories. As long as they can settle up with 90-99% fiat, the game goes
on. When the buyers finally demand all gold or all silver (no fiat), the game can quickly change or end. The major banks involved in the silver trade are not buying and selling tonnes
of silver every month. They are buying and selling paper contracts. And in some cases, naked shorting with paper contracts. The market gets flooded with paper sell orders not with
real physical. Behind the scenes large bullion deals are occurring at levels well above current paper spot prices. Of course, this stuff is kept secret. There have been numerous rumors
of Comex and LBMA settlements being made with paper with premiums up to 30% just to keep from having sellers deliver real bullion...which they do not have. The $20-$30 silver range
is only a short term thing that is dependent on paper trading. We could easily see $10-$20 silver again. But the final end game within the next 2-5 years will occur at >$125/oz.
In order to control the silver price in July 2008, JPMorgan had to double up on their short silver derivatives to the tune of $203 BILLION. At the time, that was 19 yrs of annual world
silver production. What so called commerical/hedger needs to hedge 19 yrs of production.....even if they had all the world's silver producers as customers? Creating leveraged paper
contracts to bring 19 yrs of silver "into existence" was fairly easy. Locating 19 yrs worth of mined silver in a few months (15 BILL ounces) is impossible. One would logically
ask why JPM needed to hedge 19 yrs of world silver production in 2008 after assuming the bankrupt Bear Stearns war chest. Why would they even do this on their own w/o input from
CB's? Is it a death-wish or just knowing that the payback from the "friends of Angelo" will more than compensate?
This all has little or nothing to do with economics. That ceased being a factor many years ago.
tens of thousands of dollars. The central banks can't be stockpiling large quantities of silver
because large quanties of silver simply don't exist. A few hundred million ounces is about
the most anyone can accumularte without driving the price far higher. This is a paltry few
billion dollars and JP Morgan can lose this amount of money in mere minutes. This is just
chicken feed in the land of high finance.
Rather than buying silver they are selling silver they don't own and then buying back the
contract which has the same effect. They've sold so much silver that when silver becomes
properly valued they'll be bankrupt because it's impossible to buy all the silver they've al-
ready sold. It's essentiually a ponzi scheme being done with the consent of government
which will severely damage the future. When thje scheme fails they'll need government to
bail them out yet again and the perpetrators will again be rewarded with huge bonuses or
golden parachutes.
human race will need increasing amounts of silver going forward and mine production can not
possibly keep up through any foreseeable means for several decades. This paper silver makes
silver seem plentiful thus suppressing the price and allowing frivolous and unnecessary wastage
of the metal. This seems of small consequence to the powers that be because our entire economy
is founded on waste. Without the massive waste generated on every level the economy would be far
smaller and tax income smaller yet.
But silver will become critical to the functioning of the economy and our ability to generate the wealth
required to feed the booming population. People won't necessarily starve but economic progress which
is the underpinning of most human progress will necessarily be significantly impeded. Huge amounts of
wealth that would have existed won't. Trillions are lost so bankers can give themselves millions.
Of course this presumes that adequate amounts of silver can't be mined from the ocean's floor to make silver
affordable. I think it's a race we're going to lose and the banks will be destroyed by it first. They are in too deep
to extricate themselves.
big bonuses and when they lose our tax dollars go to support them. All the time Wash-
ington DC is turning into the richest city in the world because everything flows through town.
<< <i>Their endgame is quite obvious - transfer the wealth from us to them
You seriously believe this?
After centuries of banking, WE still have more money than THEM. So much for their business model. >>
I'm no trained economist but I do try to keep apprised of what is truly going on in the world we all live in.
I would say to off handidly scoff at the idea that the fed, cb's and their affiliates do not have and take their priviledges that directly
benefit themselves and their myriad of benefactors (not John Q Public) is to completely nullify the sage advice of Jefferson, Lucky Lindeys father and many other
very credible men whom realized the dangers of the creation of the fed.
Capitalism does work, America has proven this fact, however it can't work when those in power forget their obligation to humanity.
Anyone? Calling Dr. Phil.........
P.S. I have a very high regard for the economic intelligence of those on this board.
"Get Out"
"Get Out"
"Get Out"
"Get out of all assets if you don't physically hold them"
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Who was the president the last time that occurred?
<< <i>The Fed and CB's actually think/believe Joe Six Pack (JP6) can not economically prosper without them. We truly need a therapist on these boards to disect the minds of these criminals. Greed, power, risk taking, compulsive behavior, no regard for the rule of law, I want to know how we break those traits. Instead of trying to give them jail time, it might work to get them committed!
Capitalism does work, America has proven this fact, however it can't work when those in power forget their obligation to humanity.
Anyone? Calling Dr. Phil.........
P.S. I have a very high regard for the economic intelligence of those on this board.
"Get Out"
"Get Out"
"Get Out"
"Get out of all assets if you don't physically hold them" >>
We used to have onerous taxes on very high income in this country but they were
simply eliminated so that the very wealthy usually pay much less as a percent of in-
come than those in the middle class. This fosters the concept that gettinmg money by
any means is a net positive for the human race. Instead of having people make a bet-
ter product at a better price they sit around board rooms looking for new places to
put pink slime and making calls to their regulator buddies. It's now entrenched. One
gets wealthy now by gambling with someone else's money or getting new regulation
passed. The good ol' boys club runs things because there's too much money to do it
any other way. And every day more wealth is destroyed as gamblers try to extract it.
It's often said that it's dangerous for a poor man to come into a great deal of money.
They often will develop dangerous and fatal habits that catch up with them all too soon.
Apparently it's even more dangerous to give huger amounts of money to the already
wealthy and tell them to trickle down.
Nobody is indispensable and never has been. No matter how important you are the
institution will still function when you're gone. In the 1950's when the wealthy had tax
rates as high as 91% people became wealthy by making good decisions. Now when
CEO's pay less tax than their secretaries there are no longer even any good consumer
products made in the US. Decades of technology have primarily gone into cheapening
everything. It's a throwaway world and this applies to a fifth of world population who
dosn't even get anything to throw away. They themselves are the throwaways.
If we paid CEO's and politicians what they were really worth most would lose their jobs.
Instead there's an endless stream of bonuses, lower taxes, debt, and reelection.
Oh well, I see this psychological behavior in every bull market. To each their own.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I agree with most of your analysis, except the trickle down part. When free people can KEEP more of their money, (poor to rich) it does trickle down through the economy creating jobs, wealth, and prosperity.
We've got to start creating, 140K jobs/month and do it now. When people increase their net worth they invest, hire, purchase, and save. It's impossible for JP6 to do that now and as we've learned from the past, it's impossible for the middle class/elderly to also realize these sound economic foundamentals.
"Get Out"
"Get Out"
"If you don't physically hold your assets," you are at great risk in these times.
Got Gold? Got Land? Got Art? Got Coins? Got Stock Certificates In Hand?
<< <i>True capitalism requires an efficient mechanism to properly price it. One cannot put capital to work properly w/o knowing it's true cost.
Who was the president the last time that occurred? >>
Brillant!!!!!!
Not sure who that President was? Was it someone when we were on the gold standard? Reagan?
Who was the president the last time that occurred? >>
I'm guessing it was Coolidge. But it could have been as recent as Ford.
I agree that screwing around with the market's pricing mechanism only results in wastage and misapplication of valuable resources.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Brillant!!!!!! Not sure who that President was? Was it someone when we were on the gold standard? Reagan? >>
Can't be Reagan since everyone from Nixon onward had their watch on a pure fiat standard (post Aug 15th 1971). And since Coolidge supervised the crazy boom phase of the 1920's
I don't think I'd give it to him. The gold standard was never really returned to full function following WW1 (ie no real bills, no true world-wide bi-lateral trade, and then gold specie
removed in 1925 by some nations). I'd be tempted to pick a president prior to the FED being established but after the depression of the early 1890's. With all the boom and bust
phases of the 19th century due to bankers cheating on the gold standard, I'm not sure if there's a stready period where prices were efficiently determined. Maybe someone in the
1896-1907 period. With the gold standard act of 1900 I'd go with TDR up to the panic of 1907 when the bankers decided yet again to shake the tree hard.
<< <i>
<< <i>Brillant!!!!!! Not sure who that President was? Was it someone when we were on the gold standard? Reagan? >>
Can't be Reagan since everyone from Nixon onward had their watch on a pure fiat standard (post Aug 15th 1971). And since Coolidge supervised the crazy boom phase of the 1920's
I don't think I'd give it to him. The gold standard was never really returned to full function following WW1 (ie no real bills, no true world-wide bi-lateral trade, and then gold specie
removed in 1925 by some nations). I'd be tempted to pick a president prior to the FED being established but after the depression of the early 1890's. With all the boom and bust
phases of the 19th century due to bankers cheating on the gold standard, I'm not sure if there's a stready period where prices were efficiently determined. Maybe someone in the
1896-1907 period. With the gold standard act of 1900 I'd go with TDR up to the panic of 1907 when the bankers decided yet again to shake the tree hard. >>
It's a tough call. Things started falling apart pretty fast after the Constitution
was illegally ratified with a simple majority. Of course everyone still wanted it
to work even after Lincoln wrested control from Congress and started the slip-
pery slide. Mckinley deserves a lot of the blame for his use of power starting in
his first term in 1896. After that things started sliding ever faster with TR and then
FDR putting nails in the coffin of free enterprise. Since FDR one administration af-
ter another has worsened the situation with LBJ being among the worst. Now
we've lost touch with our roots entirely with mama FED and a planned economy;
primarily just planned to do the most for the fewest.
Also, Previously on this thread I mentioned a call for "Dr. Phil". I stated the corruption in the financial industry is possibly based on mental illness. Sure enough this evening, Jim Sinclair has posted a article on this very topic......
Interesting thought...Credit card swipe fees are associated with LIBOR as are most financial instruments including all those cute little bundled mortgage packages that everyone was so keen on. Credit card swipe fees amount to 48 billion dollars a year. In June this year, Barclays was fined 200 million dollars by the CFTC, 160 million dollars by the USDO J and another 59 million pounds after that (about 92 million dollars) by the FSA. So I guess it seems like a lot by it's nothing compared to the amount of money involved.
The interesting thing that came to mind is that so the bank was fined 160 million dollars and 200 million dollars here in the US; does any of that amount go back to the poor customers that got hosed by the scandal...short answer: NO. Folks get fined for these "No wrong doing" deals, since there is no wrong doing, nobody goes to jail, the banksters pay their little fine, the gov gets a little money, and the hosees keep paying those swipe fees for the convenience of staying hosees...life is good.
read the last part about Criminal Investigations
Box of 20
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Please show me trade confirmations that the FED or ECB or JGB bought silver and then sold it thus generating profit.
So much speculation, so little fact. >>
Perhaps it was presented incorrectly because the FED would not be trading in the silver market, however JPM and co. have been.
If the big banks have not been taking huge naked short positions in the silver market for years then why are they being investigated by the CFTC?
I would like you to show all of us evidence that proves the big banks are not naked shorting massive amounts of silver instead of belittling other people with different opinions than yours.
<< <i>
<< <i>Please show me trade confirmations that the FED or ECB or JGB bought silver and then sold it thus generating profit.
So much speculation, so little fact. >>
Perhaps it was presented incorrectly because the FED would not be trading in the silver market, however JPM and co. have been.
If the big banks have not been taking huge naked short positions in the silver market for years then why are they being investigated by the CFTC?
I would like you to show all of us evidence that proves the big banks are not naked shorting massive amounts of silver instead of belittling other people with different opinions than yours. >>
Belittle? LOL
How about people providing some FACT when they make claims. So much BS presented on these boards as fact is beyond laughable. If JPM has been naked shortselling for years then why hasnt the CTFC found anything?
And who cares if JPM was so nefarious? Silver is up 700% over the last decade. You PM experts should be rejoiceful rather than complaining about stuff you dont understand. All that shortselling sure did a lot of damage to the price of silver. LOL
Bottom line---if you're gonna make a claim and not substantiate it with fact, then im gonna call you out. If that hurts your feelings, then, well, too bad.
Certainly not my best belittlement, but im sure you get the idea.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Please show me trade confirmations that the FED or ECB or JGB bought silver and then sold it thus generating profit.
So much speculation, so little fact. >>
Perhaps it was presented incorrectly because the FED would not be trading in the silver market, however JPM and co. have been.
If the big banks have not been taking huge naked short positions in the silver market for years then why are they being investigated by the CFTC?
I would like you to show all of us evidence that proves the big banks are not naked shorting massive amounts of silver instead of belittling other people with different opinions than yours. >>
Belittle? LOL
How about people providing some FACT when they make claims. So much BS presented on these boards as fact is beyond laughable. If JPM has been naked shortselling for years then why hasnt the CTFC found anything?
And who cares if JPM was so nefarious? Silver is up 700% over the last decade. You PM experts should be rejoiceful rather than complaining about stuff you dont understand. All that shortselling sure did a lot of damage to the price of silver. LOL
Bottom line---if you're gonna make a claim and not substantiate it with fact, then im gonna call you out. If that hurts your feelings, then, well, too bad.
Certainly not my best belittlement, but im sure you get the idea.
As, I'm sure, Ted Butler would tell you if he were here; the size of the short position
itself is sufficient to prove manipulation. For some reason the people who trade in silver
still trust the banks that manipulate the prices to deliver in any event. How people can
see the LME default on nickel and MF Global steal their customers' accounts and metal
yet still trust the banks I don't understand. The simple fact is there is not enough silver
or money in the world to make any of these promises good if silver rockets higher. All this
paper silver does is supress the price so the banks can make money on the manipulation.
All by itself it's like letting a child play with dynamite but the worst part isn't that he'll be
blowing up the house eventually but that in the meantime the artificially low silver price is
causing silver to get used up and suppressing mining activity. We will need vast quantities
of silver to rebuild the house after the kids are done with it.
needed immediately. Now every "stainless steel" thing I see has rust on it. You can't fool
mother nature. Everything we do necessarily has real world consequences.
I don't want the last thing I see before an operation to be a rusty scalpel.
2nd shortest book in the world.............. CFTC investigations into wrong doing
Shortest book in the world................... CFTC investigations that have lead to prosecutions plus fines/jail time.
We didn't have any problems prosecuting thousands of wrongdoers during the 1980's S&L.
The score card today has only a couple of prosecutions...and none of them related to the banking sector (ie Madoff and other disposable figure heads to offer up to the masses).
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Please show me trade confirmations that the FED or ECB or JGB bought silver and then sold it thus generating profit.
So much speculation, so little fact. >>
Perhaps it was presented incorrectly because the FED would not be trading in the silver market, however JPM and co. have been.
If the big banks have not been taking huge naked short positions in the silver market for years then why are they being investigated by the CFTC?
I would like you to show all of us evidence that proves the big banks are not naked shorting massive amounts of silver instead of belittling other people with different opinions than yours. >>
Belittle? LOL
How about people providing some FACT when they make claims. So much BS presented on these boards as fact is beyond laughable. If JPM has been naked shortselling for years then why hasnt the CTFC found anything?
And who cares if JPM was so nefarious? Silver is up 700% over the last decade. You PM experts should be rejoiceful rather than complaining about stuff you dont understand. All that shortselling sure did a lot of damage to the price of silver. LOL
Bottom line---if you're gonna make a claim and not substantiate it with fact, then im gonna call you out. If that hurts your feelings, then, well, too bad.
Certainly not my best belittlement, but im sure you get the idea.
Again if the big banks led by JPM have not been naked shorting massive amounts of silver then why has there been an ongoing investigation by the CFTC???
Bottm line to you is if you're gonna make a claim and not substantiate it with fact, then I am going to call you out and if that hurts your feelings then to bad.
Prove to me that there has not been massive naked short selling from JPM and I will never comment on this subject again.
Typical "political correctness" response---"if I cant prove responsibility, then it must be someone else's fault".
I will provide a perfectly credible response since it seems unlikely you can do the same. Maybe, just maybe, the big mining companies sell short future production and use JPM and their cronies as intermediaries. The miners are actually the "naked short sellers", which isnt really naked at all since they can fulfill these obligations thru business activities.
Nah, that just makes too much sense. Better to believe the evil banksters are out to get me.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Cladking,
I agree with most of your analysis, except the trickle down part. When free people can KEEP more of their money, (poor to rich) it does trickle down through the economy creating jobs, wealth, and prosperity.
>>
I don't disagree since I'm all for everyone keeping as much as their hard earned money as is possible. And as
a good rule of thumb a millionaire keeping a few extra million will create more jobs than a hamburger flipper
keeping more of his money. But it's about fairness and common sense. Frankly I'd have never predicted that
stopping taxes on the wealthy would lead to the era of greed but this is why government isn't supposed to
perform social experiments in the real world. The rich were paying way too much taxes and common sense
indicated a substantial tax cut to encourage them and make the system more fair. Instead they suddenly were
being taxed less than their secretaries and had windfalls of profits from Reagan's experiment. Were jobs created?
Probably. But what would have happened if the tax cut had been more reasonable? There would have been
more cuts that could be passed on to lower income people. I paid far higher taxes after the cuts and I couldn't
get the capital to start a new business. Every nickel that was given to the rich had to come from somewhere
and in the long run there weren't so many jobs created as were shipped abroad.
Now we're still living in the era of greed where the first and last question always asked is what's in it for me.
The net effect on the economy and on people isn't of paramount importance, only what can be scavenged for
oneself.
The only reason at all that giving money to the wealthy ever creates even a single job is that the barriers to
opening any sort of business are becoming higher and higher due to government regulation. These barriers
protect the incompetent and wasteful and shield them from competition. Meanwhile businesses aren't being
started by the people with "poor dollars" because now days "rich dollars" are worth more. We have a two-teir
currency as surely as does China or Cuba.
No, we shouldn't make any massive changes to correct these inequalities but they should be acknowledged
and steps taken to go back to the time when money wasn't the law of the land but a better mouse trap was.
We are sacrificing more and more (even our children in failure factories) in this grand experiment to see what
will become of the few who are given all the money because they write the rules and mostly hold their perso-
nal increases as the most sacred. The country is being run by cronyism and nepotism. Every day products and
services are lower quality in a massive race to the bottom.
Please tell me a time in human history when this wasnt true?
The story is always the same, just the characters change. We have always overcome and always will. Unfortunately many people, especially a large majority of the demographic that posts here, lived during a time of excess that borrowed from the future. So a return to historical norms feels like the end of the world when it is really just a return to reality.
But hey, its a free country. We are all allowed to believe in the end of the world, doom and gloom and manipulation. We are also allowed to believe in prosperity, freedom and plain old fun.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
Please tell me a time in human history when this wasnt true?
>>
Greed has always been a large determinant of the motivations of many people. This is
only natural. But in the past there have always been forces which counterbalance such
motivation. These take the form of law and convention. 40 years ago a store wouldn't
intentionally try to trick you into buying a high priced product by putting a sign under it
for a less expensive item because it's dishonest. They wouldn't put a thumb on the scale
or fill products with water because it's stealing. They wouldn't cheapen their products to
fool customers into overpaying. They wouldn't pay their employees chicken feed if the bus-
iness was highly profitable and the employees were a major factor. They wouldn't conspire
with vendors to provide substandard materialsa and products with reduced value. They
wouldn't collude with other producers to raise prices. They wouldn't award themselves bo-
nuses for successfully gambling with depositors' money.
Of course greed has always been around but it's always been a big negative. It's even a
sin because it destroys rather than produces. It not only destroys things in the real world
but it can even destroy the individual when left unchecked. There's nothing inherently wrong
with desiring wealth, power, or fame but there is very much wrong with the pursuit of such
things with no restraint and no regard to other people and other peoples' property. Now that
the wealthy peoples' dollar is worth so much more they are allowed to just walk all over every-
one in the scramble to get ever more.
There have "always" been many forces to check greed and it has "always" flourished anyway.
But these forces have been suspended and most people have come to see money as the great-
est good rather than wealth, and greed as the engine to produce it rather than genius. We have
worked ourselves into a position where it will probably require some major scientific advancement
to work ourselves out of. The problem is that greed can destroy faster than anyone can build if
left unchecked.
A deeper problem is that any scientific breakthroughs in the future will likely require silver and it
is being destroyed by today's greed.
<< <i>Now we're still living in the era of greed
Please tell me a time in human history when this wasnt true?
The story is always the same, just the characters change. We have always overcome and always will. Unfortunately many people, especially a large majority of the demographic that posts here, lived during a time of excess that borrowed from the future. So a return to historical norms feels like the end of the world when it is really just a return to reality.
But hey, its a free country. We are all allowed to believe in the end of the world, doom and gloom and manipulation. We are also allowed to believe in prosperity, freedom and plain old fun. >>
I don't believe that the end of the world is coming any time soon and I love to go for motorcycle rides with my girlfriend, go to the lakes, have a drink or two, etc.
Of course there has always been greed throughout history and there always will be but the greed today involves millions and sometimes billions of dollars so it is on a much grander scale.
Once our government allowed the big banks to get away with unethical business practices and rewarded them with taxpayer's money the cat was out of the bag.
If you want to believe that everything is OK and the people that control the money supply in this country are ethical than that is your opinion but I will have to disagree with you.