A case for moderns - Chinese Anti-Counterfeiting laws
Zoins
Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
Recently MJ posted an article by Dave Wnuck on the ANA course "Facing the Chinese Counterfeit Threat” taught by Dr. Greg Dubay.
In this article, he related that China does not consider counterfeiting coins prior to 1949 a crime which I thought was interesting. This article interviews one of the counterfeit producers and discusses some of the situation in China.
<< <i>Legal business
Jinghuashei is forthcoming about his business practices. He is certain that he is operating legally in China, which requires that the coins he makes are dated 1949 or earlier. As long as he sticks to this one important regulation and maintains his business certification (license), he says he has nothing to fear from the authorities in China. >>
In that thread, I suggested a first step for better legal alignment would be for China to protect pre-1949 coins under their laws.
However, until that happens, given that it is a crime in China to counterfeit coins after 1949, would collectors not as astute about detecting counterfeits be better off starting with post-1949 coins that are protected by Chinese law?
In this article, he related that China does not consider counterfeiting coins prior to 1949 a crime which I thought was interesting. This article interviews one of the counterfeit producers and discusses some of the situation in China.
<< <i>Legal business
Jinghuashei is forthcoming about his business practices. He is certain that he is operating legally in China, which requires that the coins he makes are dated 1949 or earlier. As long as he sticks to this one important regulation and maintains his business certification (license), he says he has nothing to fear from the authorities in China. >>
In that thread, I suggested a first step for better legal alignment would be for China to protect pre-1949 coins under their laws.
However, until that happens, given that it is a crime in China to counterfeit coins after 1949, would collectors not as astute about detecting counterfeits be better off starting with post-1949 coins that are protected by Chinese law?
0
Comments
I wonder how the Chinese came to select 1949 as the cutoff (coins date before 1949 can be legally produced and those date 1949 and later can not be). Maybe it has to do with Communist China being created in 1949 [if my recollection of history is correct] and therefore anything that predates when the Communists took power is fair game.
<< <i>I knew there was a good legal reason to collect moderns
Love the way that rolls off the tongue!
<< <i>I wonder how the Chinese came to select 1949 as the cutoff (coins date before 1949 can be legally produced and those date 1949 and later can not be). Maybe it has to do with Communist China being created in 1949 [if my recollection of history is correct] and therefore anything that predates when the Communists took power is fair game. >>
I'm pretty sure you're right. When the Communists took over in 1949, I believe all the currency of the prior regimes were demonitized and no longer considered legal tender.
Counterfeiting legal tender appears to occur at two levels:
(a) current money used in commerce
(b) historical money of interest to collectors
The 1949 cut off for China likely cuts out a lot of counterfeiting for current coins used in transactions. One speculation is that protecting coins prior to 1949 may be a lower priority in China since those coins are less likely to be used in commerce, being primarily of interest to hobbyists. Indeed, for many countries, coins prior to 1949 may no longer be legal tender (think of all the Eurozone countries). My gut feel on convincing China to extend their anti-counterfeiting laws to coins issued prior to 1949 is that they would need to be concerned about hobbyists in addition to today's transaction currency.
What a bunch of crap
Just because the Chinese government is incapable of recognizing that its own position on this issue is morally bankrupt is no reason to suggest that collecting only moderns has any reasonable LEGAL FOUNDATION WHATSOEVER.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>no reason to suggest that collecting only moderns has any reasonable LEGAL FOUNDATION WHATSOEVER. >>
I actually think it's a pretty good legal reason to consider collecting moderns. They are protected under Chinese law while older coins are not.
While it should not be the only determiner for what you collect, it's worth considering.
<< <i>I knew there was a good legal reason to collect moderns
I wonder how the Chinese came to select 1949 as the cutoff (coins date before 1949 can be legally produced and those date 1949 and later can not be). Maybe it has to do with Communist China being created in 1949 [if my recollection of history is correct] and therefore anything that predates when the Communists took power is fair game. >>
Because according to the current government, China as a country did not officially exist before October 1, 1949.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
The reality is that China needs to wake up and do the right thing
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>The whole world is watching >>
On their Made in China devices?
Watching by itself doesn't do any good. When the world worked on stopping apartheid in South Africa, they didn't just watch, they boycotted and pulled businesses out. That's not happening in China at the moment. I think you may need to get companies like Apple to stop making iPhones and iPads there, for years.
Of course, laws that focus on businesses under US jurisdiction like HR 5977 can only help on this side of the pond.