Direction of the NBA

Goot

Just curious what some of your opinions are...

I was talking with my buddies tonight (combo of Heat and Magic fans) about the new look NBA and the trend of talent getting stacked together on select teams. It was interesting to hear their opinions on how it's impacted both teams in completely opposite ways throughout both franchises histories and I was shocked to hear my friends who are Heat fans almost unanimously agree that they aren't even happy with the direction of the league. These are guys that are all a fan of the game first, and the teams second, so they ultimately care for the strength of the sport.

It used to be that Shaq and Kobe, Duncan and Robinson, or Olajuwon and Drexler was a big deal...that's no longer enough and it has grown to the trend of James, Wade, Allen, Bosh, and the newly formed Nash, Gasol, Bryant and Bynum...among the other super teams being built in OKC, Manhattan, and Brooklyn.

Moving forward will anybody care about a regular season meeting between the Magic and Bucks? No wonder the NBA is bleeding money.

bigdcards

I grew up with Magic / Kareem / Worthy and it wasn't really fair. The celtics came away with 3 that decade too, but most teams didn't sniff the finals. Then the Bulls had multiple stars and the second tier teams had no hope then either. This is the same nba as far as I can tell.

Goot

<< <i>I grew up with Magic / Kareem / Worthy and it wasn't really fair. The celtics came away with 3 that decade too, but most teams didn't sniff the finals. Then the Bulls had multiple stars and the second tier teams had no hope then either. This is the same nba as far as I can tell. >>





Oh basketball has always lacked parity, but it has never been orchestrated as it is now. Magic and Worthy were drafted by LA, same goes for Jordan, Pippen, and Kukoc (and more) in Chicago, Bird, Ainge, and Mchale in Boston, or Thomas and Dumars in Detroit. They built through the draft, not free agency and these super teams were not masterminded at night clubs When superstars are partying together or by high powered agents.

This home grown movement is happening in OKC right now, though.

mcadams

Stacking of teams has always been around. In my mind, Chris Bosh = Joe Dumars or Dennis Rodman. They are role players that are compliments to superstars, but none of them could win on their on if given the chance. I think the point made earlier is accurate....what has changed is that the perceived stacking is being done more via free agency now.

At the end of the day, does it really matter? We're talking about the 5th (or maybe 6th) sport of our country. Most people just don't care about the NBA anymore.

TheCARDKid

Does anyone else miss the 90's a lot in the NBA?

I've been watching a lot of footage from that era (youtube). What's happened to the "enforcers"...i.e. Charles Oakley, Mason, Rick Mahorn? They seem to be extinct.

It seems like 20 years ago, everyone had clear roles. The point guard was a guy like Mark Price (or KJ, or Isiah). A shooting guard was a shooting guard, he wasn't trying to be everything. Same for sf, pf and center. Where did Robert Parish go or Bill Cartwright, old school centers?

It seems like now, everyone is trying to be everything....i.e. dwayne wade rebounding. Lebron. Or Dwight Howard a dunker.

-Second tier teams 20 years ago could get some good talent. I.e. Portland in 1991 or 92. The suns. The sonics got Detlef Schrempf, Hawkins, Perkins. The 99 Blazers had a lot of good pieces of the puzzle, they almost beat the Lakers.

Connecticoin

<< <i>Moving forward will anybody care about a regular season meeting between the Magic and Bucks? No wonder the NBA is bleeding money. >>



At least the Magic and Bucks consistently have .500 and better seasons. What about all those thrilling Kings-Warriors and Bobcats-Wizards games?

bigdcards

<< <i>

<< <i>Moving forward will anybody care about a regular season meeting between the Magic and Bucks? No wonder the NBA is bleeding money. >>



At least the Magic and Bucks consistently have .500 and better seasons. What about all those thrilling Kings-Warriors and Bobcats-Wizards games? >>



The warriors fans have been through so much. It's been a painful trip for those folks.

SanctionII

Same old story, simply given a 2012 makeover.

The NBA has had marquee teams and also ran teams since its inception. Superstar players like to play on Marquee teams where they can get the attention, praise, adulation, hero worship they desire and crave. Superstar players also like to play with other Superstar players. Sometimes the also rans can become a Marquee team for a while and then they crash back down to earth [i.e. the Chicago Bulls were horrible and a joke for a long time before MJ was drafted and lead the team to 6 titles and they were horrible for years after he left the team]. The Knicks and Sixers were once franchises that were considered Marquee a long time ago, but neither have been close to sniffing a title since AI was in his prime and since Patrick Ewing played. You also have one season wonders [i.e. the Warriors who won the title in 1975, the Bullets(aka Wizards) who won the title in 1978 and the Supersonics(aka OKC) who won the title in 1979].

There is nothing new in pro basketball (except the quantity of media coverage in the IT age; and the horrible Fashions and Accessories worn by some of the players at post game interviews during the recent playoffs [though for me I prefer Earl Monroe and Clyde Frazier wearing fur coats and wide brim hats in the 1970's than KD and RW of OKC wearing Pee Wee Herman attire and ugly big horn rimmed glasses in 2012]).

jdip9

<<<We're talking about the 5th (or maybe 6th) sport of our country.>>>

I'd be curious to hear what ranks 1-5? No doubt the "inmates running the asylum" structure of today's NBA is turning people off, but it hasn't fallen that far. In fact, the talent pool in the league today is approaching the depths we last saw in the 80's, and the league hasn't been this interesting since Jordan retired (with the Bulls).

It's amazing that they keep finding new owners for teams. Why anyone would want to take over a team in New Orleans (where basketball already failed once) is beyond me....its like throwing money away.

cash4gold

<< <i><<<We're talking about the 5th (or maybe 6th) sport of our country.>>>

I'd be curious to hear what ranks 1-5? No doubt the "inmates running the asylum" structure of today's NBA is turning people off, but it hasn't fallen that far. In fact, the talent pool in the league today is approaching the depths we last saw in the 80's, and the league hasn't been this interesting since Jordan retired (with the Bulls).

It's amazing that they keep finding new owners for teams. Why anyone would want to take over a team in New Orleans (where basketball already failed once) is beyond me....its like throwing money away. >>



It is the league that the players, not the owners, control. Tom Benson is finding that out early with Eric Gordon now the newest Hornet wanting to abandon ship. The Dwight Howard spectacle is really getting old. He wants to go to the Nets but no one really wants to make this trade happen and allow Brooklyn to be the latest team to have the new big three of the league.

Here is a link from 2011 link in regards to most watched sports in our country. The NBA was 3rd back in the '98.

mcadams

1) NFL
2) Nascar
3) MLB
4) MMA

And if I included NCAA sports individually, I'm not sure NBA would crack the top 10.

jdip9

I suppose its different in different regions of the country (I actually think there was an entire thread dedicated to this)...my list looks a lot different from yours.

The bottom line is that despite how I atrocious I (and a lot of people) find it to be that the players wield so much power in forming these super-teams, the ratings for this past season were better in both the regular season and playoffs. Now, whether these ratings spikes are due to the sport's popularity or the advent of daily fantasy sports sites is another question, but the bottom line is that people are tuning in.

mcadams

That wasn't my list. That was my guess as to what a nationwide popularity survey would reflect.

ShootyBabitt

<< <i>That wasn't my list. That was my guess as to what a nationwide popularity survey would reflect. >>



Good call on Nascar, which I always forget about. I found this list (2010 was the latest year) from Sports Business Daily :

1.NFL
2.MLB
3.NCAAF
4.NASCAR
5.NBA
6.NHL

stown

I've said it many times before but I use to be a *huge* fan of the NBA. But, that all ended during the '98/99 strike when Spree said, "I have a family to feed".

Zero regrets.

alnavman

I was a partial season ticket holder for the Cavs for several years when Lebron was still here....I stopped getting the tickets two years before he left when I started to get frustrated not only with the Cavs but the NBA in general. Give me high school basketball anytime over the pros.....no posse's, no salary demands, no holdouts, just kids enjoying the game....it also helped that my son was playing and my daughter is also going to continue playing next year as a sophomore but I still plan to go to the high school games....haven't been to a Cavs game for over three years....

al.

NVbaseball

<< <i>That wasn't my list. That was my guess as to what a nationwide popularity survey would reflect. >>



Who made the guess? You? Combine college and pro and basketball is still third most watched sport in the US

The free-agency splurge was first tried when the Magic signed Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady and made a serious run at Tim Duncan 12 years ago. Recent champions and top teams from this century have all been built through a wide range of player acquisitions. Heat did it by having the best salesmanship. Celtics did so similarly, but with the best trade package. Spurs picked up their trio all in the draft. Lakers used a combination of draft / trade / free agency to win their championships. If anything it is a good thing that teams have so many possible ways now to put together a top team other than just wait to hit a homerun in the draft

NVbaseball

<< <i>It seems like 20 years ago, everyone had clear roles. The point guard was a guy like Mark Price (or KJ, or Isiah). A shooting guard was a shooting guard, he wasn't trying to be everything. Same for sf, pf and center. Where did Robert Parish go or Bill Cartwright, old school centers? >>



That's because there are now far more 6'11" players who are very good passers and shooters. There are 6'8" players who can defend point guards and centers. Teams are free to limit the way they use their assets. Wouldn't make much sense

PowderedH2O

I would agree that the stacking is nothing new. And the building in different ways is nothing new. The Sixers were a powerhouse for about a decade. They did a lot of that with ABA players (Erving, McGinnis, Bobby Jones, Caldwell Jones, etc.). They drafted very few of the key pieces of their team. The Celtics did it with drafting and trades for decades. The trade for KG and Ray Allen is nothing new. The Celtics got the following players through trades or from teams that folded: Bob Cousy, Ed Macauley, Bill Sharman, Bill Russell, Robert Parish, and Kevin McHale. The Celtics had many seasons in the 60's when they could start an entire lineup of HOFers. How is that different from today?

Also, someone mentioned the Bullets of 1978 as a one year wonder. The Elvin Hayes/Wes Unseld Bullets of the 70's were in the NBA Finals in 1975, 1978, and 1979. That's three times in five years. Hardly a one year wonder.

KennyH

Whats the latest on the Dwight Howard situation? Is he going to the lakers?

halosfan

Eventually yes

jdip9

<<<If anything it is a good thing that teams have so many possible ways now to put together a top team other than just wait to hit a homerun in the draft >>>

That's the thing with today's NBA....there aren't that many ways to build a Finals-caliber team. I count 3 ways, and all are out of most teams' control:

1. Draft a franchise player (i.e. Duncan, LeBron, Durant). These come along about once every 5 years or so, and almost all of them are No. 1 picks (except for Durant, but OKC had the god-awful drafting Blazers in front of them). So basically, you have to coordinate your awful season, with winning the lottery (where the worst team only has a 25% chance of winning) with the once in 5 years where a superstar is ready to be drafted.

2. Have a "destination city". I count 6 of these in the NBA - Miami, Chicago, LA (2x), New York, Brooklyn. I could be convinced that Dallas could qualify, too. If you're unlucky enough to be a team in the heartland, forget about it (unless you get lucky via #1 above).

3. Have David Stern rig something for you ('85 lottery, '12 lottery, Chris Paul trade). This is good for cities like Phoenix, Boston, Orlando, Philadelphia, Golden State that either have strong traditions and/or are on the level just below "destination city".

The fact is that even a string of good draft picks and trades can only get you so far. The Lakers and Spurs teams were both anchored by all-time greats. The Celtics were unique in that they had built enough young chips to trade for superstars on the back nine of their careers that were willing to sacrafice to win a title. They were built before the current era. Superstars these days control the league, and they will just refuse to sign extensions with teams that aren't in a destination city.

So basically, what I'm saying is about 2/3 of the league have almost zero chance to win a championship. I suppose that is fun if you live in any of the cities above, but fans of the Bucks, Kings, Pistons, Cavaliers, Bobcats can forget about winning a title anytime in the next 20 years unless the ping pong balls fall their way.